AcuraTLFan

I lowered my '02 TL-S for about 3 weeks now...to me, it's great! My dad saw it...and he's all complaining about it...on how "cheap" the car looks, and what a complete waste of $$$ it was. I told him every reason i got them 1) Looks better 2) Handles Better 3) Safer (under certain conditions). He says, "If lowering ur car is so great, why don't the dealers put springs on all the TL?" also, "The car is designed like that, it's not suppose to be modified" Since he's my dad and i respect him, i can't really say much to defend myself; but there are lots of reasons that i can give him. I was wondering if some of you can explain to my 40 year old dad why i got the springs...and can you also put ur age so he knows that older people do this too. thanks a bunch you guys.

StanMan

thee perfect answer...

"it's my car and i can do what i like!"

this is what i tell my mom all the time when she questions my mods.

29

nickchop

No offense to you, but your dad is right, you shouldn't of lowered your car. No reason to lower a perfectly brand new car!

31

Mr Hyde

Gee Thanx, the next time I want to spend 40k I'll be sure to check with you first.

Different strokes for different folks; I'll respect your opinion to keeep your car stock, but bottom line for me, I did it for all the reasons you stated already. Its a great car and I saw a few areas that I could improve on a little further, so sways, springs, headers, the OEM kit, WW lipspoiler and other mods are now on my ride and I love all of them. Its my car which I purchased myself, and I will do to it as I see fit. After all I bought the car for me and to make me happy. If those mods is what it took to do it, then so be it. Bottom line enjoy your car, if some mods will increase that, then go for it, otherwise dont.

P.S. In all the prerelease photos, videos what have you, the TL-S WAS lowered. Apparantly Honda saw fit to have the TL lowered to draw more attention to its good looks, but did an about face for production models.

RX-72ATL-S

I've lowered cars and lifted trucks before but....

I haven't lowered my TL-S because I haven't found a spring I like yet. I would like to get rid of the wheel well gap (about an inch worth) but all the springs out there lowered it too much for my taste. There's a fine line between sport tuned/agressive "look" and Rice. Plus I don't know your situation but, if your dad bought or is paying for your car in anyway he may be thinking your gonna cause him more grief or money in the long run. Things like tires, alignment, or warranty issues. Who knows. He's probably pissed because it's brand new and your already sh!tting with it. Dad's typical don't like those things. Personally, I don't think your gonna be able to come up with too many safety excuses for adding performance parts. You could probably come up with some performance excuses though. Just tell him it gets rid of that nasty wheel well gap. Tell him after you drove it for a few days you noticed that it looked like a 4x4 or something, and you wanted a more aggressive look. And before you go and add a header, or a couple of cannons on the back I'd think of a good reason first.

BTW...28

iatacs19

help the guy out here!
What are some benefits and other such things. I know there must be others who have done mods, help him justify some of them.

LarryLynx

I agree that "lower is better", but could some of you with lowered TLS's characterize the change relative to "feel". Is the car still "jiggly" on rough road at slower speeds, and is the overall handling and feel more or less enjoyable, or is it just more "satisfying". In other words, when you double date to the opera, do you constantly feel the need to apologize for your car's uncivilzed manner?

nickchop

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr Hyde
[B]

Gee Thanx, the next time I want to spend 40k I'll be sure to check with you first.

Mr. Hyde,
Hence my original statement of "No offense to you" that also means "Respectfully I don't agree with you". So relax, I feel you or anyone else can do or spend whatever they want. My remarks are simply one man's opinion, not a personal attack. Respectfully.

I agree with 'RX-72ATL-S'. If I could find springs to get rid of the wheel gap without lowerering it too much for my taste, I'd be down with that.

nickchop

Pros:
Fat chicks couldn't ride in it, because you would have an excuse to kick them out because the wheels would be rubbing on the wheel well.

Mr Hyde

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nickchop
[B]Dont worry your comments were not taken as a personal attack, and I hope you dont take my comments as such. Although that last statement is in contradiction with your first one.

I truely believe the suspension mods to increase the safety of the car by increasing its handling. I had one particular instance with my Accord that had an aftermarket suspension.

I was rounding a bend in the highway and all of a sudden came across this car that apparently had a blowout and was just sitting there perpindicular to traffic completely blocking two lanes of traffic(the left and middle). I was in the left lane at the time and managed to nail the brakes and cut over to the far right lane in time. If I hadnt had those rims, shocks, springs, and upgradedbrake pads, I am pretty sure the car would not have behaved the same and that I probably would have been unable to avoid him, and I either would have hit him or the concrete center divider. Bottom line in any emergency lane change test right now, my TL-S would best ANY stock one. Take a drive in one with springs and sways and tell me if you disagree.

SlyTLS

RX-72ATL-S & nickchop - If you guys are interested in just closing the wheel whell gap, making the car handle better but not ruining the ride quality then I would recommend the Comptech springs...they do all three things perfectly. If you check the link to my pics in my sig you'll be able to see what the wheel well gap looks like after the springs (there's a pic of the wheel there).

RX-72ATL-S

I agree with Mr. Hyde on the handling. My civic rode on rails after I upgraded the suspension. But he can't tell his dad it will help me while hauling a$$ around corners. BUT... they ride was compromised and I found myself after a while getting tired of it.

As far as the Large women comment.... that's possibly true. My Civic rubbed with two people in the back and they weren't over weight.

I want everyone to understand that modding your car is fine by me. I just prefer it to be under the hood. I don't like my cars to look like I've modded the hell out of them. I have more fun that way.

As far as Mr Hydes TLS goes. I think it's one of the best looking TLS's I've seen. Although his sig pics. don't look lowered. Are they? The visual mods are subtle, not crazy. Oh BTW, I had my first race this morning. (Well I considered it a race)

Road Rage

Here's some info about how cars are designed to answer your Dad's rather naive question - I mean no offense, but that is the sort of thing I would expect a 16 year old to say - anyone who has lived a number of years would understand that most everything ever designed is a compromise, and that different folks have different design and performance objectives (as my pal Mr. Hyde has eloquently stated). Does your Dad fish - is a plastic fly reel as good as a bamboo? Depends.

Anyway, here are some design parameters affecting sproings that the engineers have to contend with:

1) Loads. They have to maintain adequate fender clearance up to maximum load - could be 5 fat chicks and a trunk full of girdles
2) They have to maintain fender clearance in the worst of weather - ice sticking to the fender wells and rubbing against the tire
3) They have to maintain standard bumper heights - there are Federal laws around bumper height - this is done to reduce having one car slide over another's bumper during a collision. By having the bumpers absorb energy evenly, the impact absorptioin is better
4) Headlight adjustment is standardized
5) NVH - noise, vibration, harshness parameters. Cars are designed for a target market - they must balance ride, noise, etc. to appeal to the widest part of their market - a car that rides too harshly is death in the near luxo market.
6) Ease of entry/exist. Again, they design for a target. In most cases, they have to allow for the size of Americans (bigger than most nations) and the wideness of our butts!

There are others - hope this helps.

yee

haha...for your defense.

production line efficiency purposes...
manufacturer will always find something adequate (not the best) to cut down cost...

here's a few example for our TL...

fake wood!
no auto down/up on all windows (VW does on all cars)
no folddown seats
do I need to explain about our tires?!

basically, everything we've complained about in this forum are because Acura wants to save budget.

as for the springs...I have to say that they're not bad, but there are better ones.

ha 65mph

its a little harsher ride. thats why dealers dont do it. why sell a luxury car that dosent have a perfectly smoothe ride.

Evan

tea elle

Gee...ya' think maybe Acura had a good reason for NOT lowering the car in production models???? Like, maybe they knew that most people don't want to slow down to a snails pace every time they pull into a driveway to protect the car? Which is one of my pet peeves about you guys with lowered cars...you make everyone else wait for you while you gingerly enter the driveway after making a fast left hand turn in front of other drivers and then practically stop before pulling in.

Or, maybe they knew that people would damage the front lower panel every time they scraped the road while entering a driveway. I see a lot of cars with body kits that look like sh*t because they've been inevitably damaged by normal driving.

hunter001

Lowering ones car is a decision that people make for themselves. Some like the "lowered" look, some don't. I personally like a bit of ground clearance in my cars and any stunts that would make an un-lowered TL/TL-s unstable enough to topple over, IMHO, is something to be avoided and so that does not bother me.

Also, if I wanted a lower car, I would have bought one that has been designed as a "low car", right out of the factory.

Also, people talk of "wheel well gap" in a stock TL. Have someone checked out the "gap" with the driver and the passenger in the front seat ? Does the car look okay then ? If so then how does a "lowered" car look after the 2 front seats are occupied ? Does it look abnormally low ?

coffeefingers

Dude,

It always gives me a chuckle when I see really slammed cars "try" to go over speed bumps in parking lots. LOL. They take the bump at an angle and then they inch their way over them. Then I hear the bottom of their cars scrape against the bumps. LOL. Whatever.


When speed bumps kicks your car's ass...it may be lowered just a little too much.


But...from the pictures of the lowered TLs here...most look tastefully done. Nothing too extreme....yet.

SimTypeS

tea elle, we are talking about cars that are lowered, not slammed. Most people on here get the Comptech or H&R Sports, which drop the car ~1.5". Not like a riced out Civic with cut springs that has like 1" of travel. Um, I think I have been behind plenty of cars (all styles) that pull in front of you and make you hit your brakes, just to make the next turn real slow; young boys and girls, old men and women... Toyota Camry, SUV, Geo... Not just lowered cars.
HA 65MPH, the TL is more for the luxury people, the TLS more for the sport. Hence the sportier stock suspension on the TLS than the TL. But still, Acura knew there would be some old guys that buy the TLS for some reason and complain about a stiff, sporty suspension, so they compromised. If someone wants a "perfectly smoothe ride" then they can buy a regular TL.
AcuraTLFan, you are in college, right? Ask your dad if he was ever into hot rods when he was younger. Did he ever own a Camaro or Mustang? Deep down, he should understand. If all else fails, take him for a ride to "show off" your springs.

tea elle

:

...I didn't know we were only talking about "one type" of lowering...but I think you got my point

AcuraTLFan's dad and his friends in the 1960's and 1970's were spending ALOT less money on cars back then, I can assure you!!!

Lrpba300

Well AcuraTLfan, I'd say to your father, that if they made the Tl-S into a COMPLETE sport type luxury car, the PRICE would probably be more like $40-45k! Sometimes we have to ALTER the look and feel of our preference of the car.

on another point..Tea elle, I spent ALOT more on MODS, performance parts, wheels, tires, etc, ( in the 60's & 70's) than I do now, buy a bunch

isaaktnt

Is it just me or do all of the sport version of the BMW looks lowered stock. You can talk about all of the safety tolerances but people generally are smart enough not to take the "sport" cars off roading or other dilema that requires a large wheel clearance. I have never personally lowered any cars I have owned, but definitely thinking about it with this one. I am just tired of people (including my girlfriend) commenting that the car is too old for me.

BTW I am 26.

daverman

Tea Elle, a word of advice: whenever you find yourself saying "you guys", please rephrase your sentence.

The TL, like any other car, is made with a clearance that will be both legal and practical for all 50 states in the US (and all of Canada, I guess). Now, not everyone needs that kind of clearance, and lowering the car is certainly a valid option. When a car is lowered to such an extent that everyday driving is difficult, then the car is lowered too much. Otherwise, what's the big deal?

I will probably never lower my TL because I like my clearance. Other people I know have lowered theirs because they like the look and the improved handling. None of us have problems driving around town. Just because Acura decided on a clearance that is a good blanket compromise doesn't make the measurement sacred by any means.

Pet peeve or no, it's no reason to get your britches in a bunch!

tea elle

You're right, and I apologize for being too general in saying "you guys". I don't mean to offend anyone, and I think you got the point of what I was saying. I admit that sometimes I just like using the Acura TL Forum as a, well, as a forum I guess. What I mean to say is that I think their are some threads that I really enjoy reading, and others that compel me to speak my mind in support or disagreement.

We all enjoy the opportunity to have our feelings be heard by so many others. We as people don't always agree, but it's one of the great things about the internet.

AcuraTLFan

Thanks you guys! i just printed all of ur comments out and showed my dad...i left him speechless...now he won't be saying anything about my great looking lowered car.

mgs333

that's odd, why would he have cared what some guys on an internet forum said..

AcuraTLFan

This is the "Acura TL" forum...most ppl here know what they are talking about...and if a lot of ppl keep saying the same thing over and over...most likely they are right. It shows him this facts and not just his bais opinions

nickchop

I agree, I doubt anyone here has changed the mind of a 40 year old dad. Hey, AcuraTLFan's dad, the world is flat.

lonny

What does age have to do with anything? I am 47 and an old hot-rodder at heart. It's in my blood and there's nothing I can do about it. I just installed my Comptech sways and am CONSIDERING changing the springs. However, I want improved handling w/o having to lower the car too much.

yee

lonny hey, I'm thinking about improvement my TL's handling without lowering the car too...do you feel your car got better by just putting on sways, or you think the springs are really needed?

Turboara

Its great to have a 47 yr old hot rodder on the board, I'm a 30 and messing with cars more than I did when I was 19 (cause I could afford it now).

Personally I wouldn't want to lower my tl b/c 1) the ride may become a bit harsher and I use my tl as the "good" car; 2) it may raise an issue with ground clearance on driveways and inclines.

I would think the sway bars improve the car's handling noticably. Also when it's time for new tires you can get a more aggressive tire to improve handling & braking as well.
I'm thinking of sneaking some sways on the tl myself when my wife's not looking. How do you rate the comptechs?

bricot

A car lowered with a reasonable sport spring will only experience approx 25% stiffer ride, not at all bad in our vehicles, especially considering the dramatic difference in handling. I wouldn't go back to stock springs, and the 1.5 - 1.7 inch drop hasn't made me scrape my bodykit once.

Fiddler

I didnt read all the replies so maybe someone arleady said this but:
the stock ride hight is designed for the general masses that the car is catered to. If you go by your father's logic, then that means that every car made is perfect the way it is.
The TL, for instance, has tires that are great as far as tread life, but totally suck if you want to take a corner faster.. does this mean they are the optimal tire for the car? of course not.. they are if you use the car as a grocery getter.
No car is designed for 1 person. they have to please everyone, so they are always in some sort of compromise.

fatsmith

I get the same advice from my dad... "Why do you want to make it go faster.... Hell, the speed limits only 65..."

The big difference between my fathers advice and yours.... MY dad's 84, and I'm 39. Just remind him that he can't be so old not to remember what it's like to be young....

lilboykorea

Hows the handling wih only sways on?????

cause i feel that my TL-s(my dads...i'm 15...it'll be mine next year..lol) is not the greatest at handling... its better then the normal TL for sure but isnt satisfying for me...

will springs hurt the car if I drive it in winter snow? cause here in canada it snows quite a bit... especially my area, i live like an hour drive away from the famous rocky mountains...

welll winters bad..but carving through mountain roads are the best experiences....untill u have to stop cause of some bear or some deer crossing the highway...lol....

so can someone tell me how the sways are? without the springs?

and how are the springs in the winter???

sniper5

EVERYBODY HERE KEEPS TALKING ABOUT HOW SPRINGS, STRUTS, AND SWAYS WILL RUIN THE CAR'S RIDE. WHAT RIDE?
THIS HAS GOT TO BE THE WORST RIDE I HAD IN A WHILE. I HATE THE BOUNCY FEEL I GET ON THE HIGHWAY AND THE ROAD.
IT JUST BOUNCES TOO MUCH!!!!!

MY IN-LAW'S MERCEDES S CLASS HAS A RIDE THAT SHOUDN'T BE MESSED WITH IF YOU LIKE COMFORT. ACURA TRIED TI GIVE YOU A MIX BETWEEN A SPORTY AND COMFY RIDE AND IT IS AN UGLY MONSTER THEY CAME UP WITH. FOR ME, NEW BARS AND SPRINGS ARE A MUST.

lonny

Yee

I like the handling with the sways. The car is more stable in curves and quick lane changes. I am not sure about springs. I would want to take a ride in someone' TLS that has springs. What this car really needs is better tires!

daverman

1. Deflate your tires to the 32 PSI specified in the manual.
2. Press your Caps Lock key once and never press it again.

sniper5

DAVE,

I'M AT WORK WHERE USING CAPS IS REQUIRED FOR MOST OF THE STUFF I DO AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE SWITCHING BACK AND FORTH. YOU TYPE THE WAY YOU WANT TO AND LEAVE ME ALONE. IF IT'S BUGGING YOU, THE SKIP THE MESSAGE AND DON'T READ IT.
AS FAR AS THE RIDE GOES, THE CAR IS EVEN MORE BOUNCY WHEN TIRE PRESSURE IS SET AT 32-34 PSI. I HAVE IT SET AT 40 PSI NOW AND IT IS FIRMER AND BETTER, BUT STILL BOUNCY FOR MY TASTE.

Turboara

ack!!!! why are you yelling??