Just wondering because according to sept. issue of Road&Track it says 99.

 

I thought you had a CLS? Are you thinking of coming over to the other side?

 

it's more than 99...
well my CL-S tops out just over 180km/h at redline in 3rd....prolly almost 190 is I take it right to the limiter...

 

Remember he wants to auction his CL-S off!!

That or get the 6-Speed!!

 

I read somewhere on here that the 3rd gear can go up to 107 MPH

 

wow..thats pretty good. It confirms it then, whenever I top my 3rd gear off it looks like I just hit 100. I cant stare at it for too long though

 

right. hes not asking about the CLS... hes asking about TLS.

R&T says 3rd geare is 99MPH in the TLS.

3rd gear in the CLS is bout 110.

 

that's actually shawnS i have no intention to sell my S.

 

Why is that if they shared the same engine?!

 

don't know, they have the same gear ratio's too. I just wanted to confirm from a tl-s owner. may be its tunned down from the ecu or something. can a tl-s person who it 6900 in 3rd gear answer ?

 

I have hit 100 in 3rd gear several times, but from what I remember I wasnt at 6900 yet, and still had room to go. I definitely have hit triple digits in 3rd so I dont buy the 99mph max in 3rd gear posted by R&T. Next time I do it I'll hold it on 3rd a little longer, but since the gear ratios are the same, Id expect similar results.

 

DOH!! My bad.. I knew it was one of you CL-S guys from VA.. sorry for the confusion..

but come over the TL darkside anyway.. muhahahaha..

 

Actually, Shawn is from PA

 

Damn... see kids, this is what happens when you have too much to drink the night before..

VA, PA.. arrrgh.. somewhere on the Right side of the US..

 

In D4/3rd gear can be held to about 106 mph on mine (on slight incline where there's no hiding places for cops). I haven't tried to redline it on the flat or with the stick yet.

 

Me, too. I have hit about 100 in 3rd gear, but not quite at red line yet.

 

Ahem, time for a little math, children...

At 6900 RPM on a TL-S,

3rd gear ratio = 1.021 : 1
Final drive ratio = 4.428 : 1

Effective RPM at wheel = 6900 / 1.021 / 4.428 = 1526 RPM

Wheel diameter = 17 in.
Tire width = 8.465 in. (215 mm)
Tire aspect ratio = 50%
Tire height = width * aspect ratio = 4.232 in.
Effective wheel diameter = wheel dia. + 2 * height = 25.46 in.

Effective wheel circumference = PI * eff. wheel dia. = 80.00 in.

Effective speed = Eff. cir. * Eff. RPM = 12210 in. / minute
= 115.6 mi/hr.

There's your answer!

For a TL-P at 6500 RPM redline with 205/60R16 tires, that 3rd gear tops out at 109.9 mi/hr.

Don't forget to allow for about 200 RPM drop of torque converter inefficiency (about 3% loss of RPM).

 

dave i have no idea waht taht equation came from but okay. so your saying 109.9 right? that sounds about right. the guys at road and track are probablly wrong again.

after adding headers my 2nd gear can hit 72~73 can't tell. and 3rd can hit 112~113. before my fuel cuts off.

 

If you look at the TL-S's torque graph youll see it drops off at about 6200... try your calculation there. Maybe they shift there becuase they just lose torque after that. Maybe not . I don't know a ton about cars but damn sure would like to learn some. Can't wait for my TL-S dammit!

 

Regardless of where that equation came from - that's cool!! Thanks Daverman for the math lesson!

 

That's not completely accurate. Explain to me, Dr. Dave, why a TL-S w/ headers and intake is faster (i.e. higher mph) at the end of HIS third gear than me in a stock TL-S at the end of my 3rd gear? You've taken into account static rpms .. your rpms are constant, and you've neglected to incorporate acceleration, dV/dt, into your equation. You need to use some calculus to determine that result. I.e. integrate.

V = Vo + a*t (where Vo = 0 mph at a standstill, duh, and a = dV/dt).

therefore, V = a*t, where a = acceleration, t = time, and v = velocity (i.e. mph).

the variable "a" is different for the modded TL-S, the stock TL-S in the right corner, and the stock TL-S in the left corner. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, if tire pressures vary from car to car, the effective wheel diameter changes (and not completely negligible in your equations). Further, is R&T using radar to scan their mph at the end of 3rd, or are they using the speedometer, which we've concluded (in topics past) is inaccurate at higher speeds?

Pete

 

Nice math, however there is the issue of ideal math vs. the real world -- the diameter you are using is of a perfect circle -- not a loaded tire. I compare the R/T by scaling to the 7400 RPM fuel cut-off (and my and other experience), and then use your calcs with a loaded radius. (Sorry, I couldn't find the loaded radius for the MXM4, only a Toyo 215/50-17 with diameter of 25.5...

If I just scale the R/T results using their 6900 rpm for the 99MPH in 3rd, and change to the fuel cut-off (7400), I will go ahead and “adjust”:

99 * 7400 / 6900 = 106.2 MPH (Our speedos are a bit optimistic) We have seen drivers with their speedos reading over 150 MPH, but the limiter is set at 147 MPH (guy had a speedo test at AAA).

(I’m going to assume that R/T screwed-up for the heck of it…) – so this is just one value, but it seems a bit too low from my experience in the CLS. (I’ve seen about 115 at fuel cut-off)

----------------------------------------

25.5 (Toyo in a 215/50-17) inch diameter. However, its loaded radius is 11.8 inches!!!!

The loaded radius is the actual size to use. If a tire worked as you figured it would have a contact patch equal to zero! The tire is flat at the bottom under load.

If I take your figure -- 115.6 mi/hr, and multiply by the correction factor…

115.6 MPH * ( (11.8 * 2) / 25.5 = 106.987

So, I now will adjust for 7400 rpms…

106.987 * 7400/6900 = 114.74

I can only speak for my car, but under the load in 3rd gear at about 115 MPH, I see no “slop” in the needle and the car is under full load and the converter is locked up – the 200 rpm correction for the converter should not be applied in this cas in my opinion. At high rpms and full load the converter is in full lock up (This is my opinion and I can get you the page in Helm's for the CLS lockup algos...


So, your math works out perfectly if you go by the Fuel cut-off, my experience (and others), and the loaded radius vs. your ideal circle model of a tire.

 

i believe it goes up to 80 ish mph only one way to find out is try it!!!!

 

Well, 2nd goes to 72-74 MPH (indicated)

And, 3rd goes to around 113-115 (indicated)

I'm talking about my CLS, and I've done the run to max fuel cut-off a few times.

If you want to try (please don't get a ticket on my behalf) just get the SS in to 3rd (with a TLS/CLS) and let it run right past the 6900 limit to the fuel cut-off (around 7400) rpm.

So, if your talking TLS/CLS, they go very fast in 3rd -- enough to send you to jail in California...

 

I hit 116 mph all the way to 8000 RPM by TL-S, that was when I ran with the Lexus GS430. It's true the rpm went to all the way I did not notice that it went to Maximum rpm and I was just try to beat Lexus GS430 and forgot to shift to 4th gear. I could disarray my engine at that time, but engine was still superior. When I shift to 4th gear rpm was at 5500 RPM, maybe over 6000 rpm i don't quiet remember and keep goes on. It was intimidating going over the redline and beyond over rpm. But it was sweet run and I did beat GS430 for few seconds and he comeback on the corner.
who says 99mph?? ummmm well try 8000rpm if you can't go over 99mph...

 

8000 rpm?? you sure? cause mine everytime it hits 7200 the fuel cut off engages and the car jerks. There might be something wrong with your fuel cut off and its not working right. if it happens more than once, I would get it checked up just in case. btw, the 99mph was from road and track.

 

Whoa, you guys are pretty smart.... want to come work for me????

I havent' seen that since college (uhhhh last year).... did anyone try using a LaPlace transformation????? Don't have a Peeing contest over who is right.... just go out and try it.... what is you are going up hill??? what if there is a weight difference??? these results will vary in less than ideal conditions... we have said this numerous times (1/4 mi...0-60) who cares it is around 100 mph +/- 5%

I'm not knocking you guys, I am sure you both are very intelligent and know more about cars than I do... also I thought it was interesting to see some math come into play and seeing the theoretical values vs. actual...
my .02

 

LOL 116 at 8000RPM

LOL LOL



LOL... Imagine that beating a GS430 in a tripple digit run! AHAHHAHA LOL

 

anyway I don't think I want to go all the way 8000 rpm anymore it is bad for the engine and it's dangerous. Anyway I was with my friend, he's telling me you are hitting 8000 rpm, when I look at my guage it was hitting 8000 and comesback to about 7800 and go back to 8000....... soon as I see that I just change my gear to 4th gear... and lower my speed by not accelerating..

 

I personally have gone right to the red in 3rd and I was going around 100. Maybe a little more.

 

hey seotaji, you korean by anychance?? me too. I Live right in springfield va. was your friend leaning towards the driver seat? cause in the cl-s atleast, the passenger can't really see the tach above 6000rpm because of how the guage cluster sticks out. How do I know this? becuase i'v been sitting in the passenger seat of my car for the past 2 months while my gf drives me around. (restricted licence) and everytime i look over, unless I lean fully out of my seat to the drivers seat, I can't see thet tach past 6000.

 

of course, I am totally sure about that. No jokes, I was with my friend he was scared to death. It happend on FF County Parkway at 3:00 AM in the morning. RPM gauge was 8000 and comebacks to 7800 or 7600 and it keeps raises to 8000.. I've see it hit 8000 rpm twice...

 

well, you cannot see the 7000 rpm or 8000 rpm numbers, but you can see the red bar at the passenger seat. The pin is the only way you can find out that it can go up to 8000 rpm. because I asked him to watch the pin and rpm, because when you drive fast it is hard to see the the rpm and all, suddenly you will forget about it.. and i did not intend to drive fast, my friend turn off the AC and lower the music all the way down. when he told me I was at 8000 rpm.. then I look the bar and shift to 4th gear.

yes yes I'm korean.. and I listen to seotaiji music.. any chance how old are u? i'm 23

 

TLS are faster than CLS!!!
any thoughts?

 

Huh? I recommend this go to MIT board!

 

I've been to 107 mph in third gear, and still had room. Momentum? Headers? I have no idea, but the needle said 107.

 

im 20. how is the tls faster than the cls. i would say they are both dead even. just because one magazine said its faster doesn't mean its true. they have the same engine, and plus the tls is 20lbs heavier but that shouldn't make a real diff.

if you want to find out if a tls is faster or a cls. call me up, i live like probably less tahn 10 min from you.
well i do have headers so i'll win but still u can call me if ya want.

703-980-2378

 

I have redlined third many times, and it goes to 105-107 mph in my car. Road and Track's publication about the TL-S is awefully odd. First off, they don't take the TL-S to redline in 1st or 2nd gears (according to their chart) and then they say 3rd only takes them to 99 mph. Either they are doing something very strange, or they got a dud for a TL-S.

 

NOVA --

What we've learned in the past four months is that the CL-S/TL-S can be a TL-S/CL-S if one person gets the launch down better than the other person, case closed. I mean ... if you get the fuel levels in both cars EXACTLY the same, empty both spares (both cars), get two drivers of identical weight (+/- 5 lbs) and make sure the tires are worn exactly the same (i.e. install new front tires to both cars), and if you switch drivers at each run (have 'em switch cars) ... and then switch track lanes every other run...

it'll be the TL-S, 5:1....

j/k!

it'll be dead even.

Last night, I ran a best of 15.3, and my buddy ran a 14.7 w/ his CL-S (intake/headers/springs/sways), that's a .6 second difference, and to 90mph, that's about a 3 carlength lead (and growing).

 

Ok, I'll be the first to say it -- you're nuts!!

just kiddin ... but you are, you know that right? (just kiddin)

You're saying that your rev limiter is at 8000 rpms.. uh uh, nope.

Try it again tonight .. find a clear strip of road, and bang off the rev limiter in 2nd gear (don't even bother w/ 3rd). See where your rpms are.