I looked at the descriptions or MSDS's of three: Valvoline Synpower, Mobil 1, and Motul 300V (their most expensive oil).

Valvoline seems to have moved from Group IV to GIII.
Mobil One is a PAO, ester, and an alkylated aromatic. It is not a hydrocracked oil as has been stated in some web postings.
Motul is an ester-based Group V lube similar to Red Line.

Here is an excellent tech article describing the properties of esters vs other synthetics:
http://www.hatcocorporation.com/pages/about_esters.html

Amsoil did not have an MSDS online, but it had everything else. I have requested the MSDS from their tech. dept. As I recall from the last time, it had "hydrogenated decene" as an ingredient, which I interpret as a Group III. However, if it is a Dodecanedioic compound, then it is a dibasic ester, or di-ester. Di-esters were developed in WWII and are very good lubes, similar to PAO's in cost and performance, but a cut below polyol esters used in Motul and Red Line. A Group IV lube if they are diesters, which makes Amsoil a very good product, but questionable whether significantly better than Mobil One. Given its multiple price points but comparable dealer unit price to Mobil One, that would be a reasonable inference.

I believe all this is consistent with my allegations.
__________________________________________

Valvoline MSDS.
Material Identity Product Name: SYNPOWER 10W30 6/1 QT General or Generic ID: SYNTHETIC LUBRICATING OIL Company Telephone Numbers The Valvoline Company Emergency: 1-800-274-5263 P.O. Box 14000 Lexington, KY 40512 Information: 1-859-357-7206 __________________________________________________ ________________________ 2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS Ingredient(s) CAS Number % (by weight) -------------------------------------------- ------------- ------------- HYDROTREATED HEAVY PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE (PE 64742-54-7 53.0- 63.0 ZINC COMPOUNDS 0.8- 1.6

RR’s Analysis: This is a hydroisomerized (hydrocracked) oil. Based on this, Valvoline appears to be a GIII like Syntec. It used to have esters in it so it appears to have cheapened its formula to compete with Syntec.
_________________________________________________

MOBIL 1:
Mobil 1 is a fully synthetic motor oil for automotive engines. It is made from a mixture of polyalphaolefin (PAO), synthetic ester and an alkylated aromatic fluid. Each of these three base materials enhances Mobil 1's performance and, along with a proprietary additive system, offers the best engine protection possible. Mobil 1 is available in five viscosity grades:

An alkylated aromatic is a synthetic hydrocarbon designed by Mobil with a different chemical structure than polyalphaolefins (PAOs). It is fully compatible with both the other synthetic components of Mobil 1 and with conventional motor oils. We have begun using this fluid in conjunction with PAO and synthetic esters based on their combined excellent performance in protecting your engine against wear, sludge formation and piston deposits. This makes Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic Formula fully compatible with conventional motor oils.

RR’s Analysis: Based on this, Mobil 1 is a Group IV lubricant with some esters and a bit of alkylated aromatics, which were some of the earliest synoils. A top quality product superior to Valvoline and Syntec.
__________________________________________________

Motul 300V

Lubricants for 4-stroke high-performance engines
Exceed API SH/CF and CCMC G-4/PD-2 or (*) G-5/PD-2 standards
300 V POWER RACING 5W30
300 V POWER 5W40
300 V CHRONO 10W40
300 V COMPETITION 15W50
300 V LE MANS 15W60
100% SYNTHETIC

APPLICATIONS
The goal of racing is to optimize the performance of a given machine for a specific race.
Hence, a single lubricant alone cannot possibly achieve top performance for every engine type in every event. MOTUL MOTORSPORT, thanks to its line-up of four different products, shall match every combination of motors and races. Suit engines of any displacement, whether of recent or past technology (Historic racing car type), multivalve, turbocharged or atmospheric, carburettors as well as fuel-injection, using leaded or unleaded gas, diesel-oil or liquefied gas, and catalytic exhausts.
For the most demanding uses of engines and lubricants :
- car racing
- sporty motoring
- long motorway journeys
- trips too short for a proper warm-up
- heavy hauls (trailers or caravans)
- city use (fuel washout during protracted idle, high running temperature for lack of engine cooling).

PERFORMANCE
Formulated upon esters and extremely efficient antifriction stocks, the 300V's are 100% SYNTHETIC and include no-or quite little (*)-viscosity boosters to achieve an extraordinary high resistance to shear.
The common characteristics along the whole 300V line are :
- a remarkable decrease of the engines internal frictions, which guarantees high performance and reliability, quite often topped with a noticeable decrease of running noises
- a top resistance to high temperature charring - an extreme resistance of the oil film -
- a low volatility, with quite little evaporation at high temperatures.
MANUFACTURERS REFERENCES : HONDA MUGEN, OSELLA ALFA ROMEO, PORSCHE, JAGUAR, NISMO, VENTURI, KREMER PORSCHE, COURAGE, SONAUTO PORSCHE, and many private racing teams.
SPECIFIC TESTS
- Oil film resistance
Conventional multiple grade mineral and semi-synthetic motor oils, as 100% synthetic super-multigrade lubricants (5W40, 5W50, 10W60...) use additives to boost their viscosity. These viscosity additives tend to loose efficiency when submitted to extreme conditions, which translates into a drop of viscosity and oil pressure.
Since the 300V's of the MOTUL MOTORSPORT line benefit from the natural viscosity of synthetic ester basestocks, they need very little of such additives, or none (*).
The ASTM D 4741 official test of HT/HS* (High Temperature High Shear) viscosity measures the viscosity of lubricants at very high temperature (150°C / 302°F) and shear (1 000 000 s-1). This test is considered to be a good model of the fluid's state when exposed to extreme shear and temperature as found in an engine.
The higher the benchmark, the best the oil film keeps up its viscosity, hence its resistance to high stress in hydrodynamic rating. Tests prove the best results are achieved with a high viscosity grade (50 or 60) at high temperature, and without viscosity boosters.
- Resistance to high temperature coking
While racing, when the engine is pushed to the extreme, or during pit stops and refuellings, the oil temperature reaches maximal values.
Same happens to usual cars when stuck in traffic jams, hard or fast-driven for long journeys, or stopped at busy toll-gates.
Hence the capital attention to avoid the carbonization of lubricants heated to high temperatures.The lubricant residues carbonized through overheating (i.e. charring) are weighed, the best benchmark being a low weight.
The test measures the coking of engine oils at a sustained high temperature (5 days at 160°C / 320°F) and blasted for 48 hours against an aluminum shim heated at 290°C / 554°F.
Tests prove the choice of basestocks, especially synthetic ester bases, to be a major promoter of resistance to high temperature coking.
The 300V's of the MOTORSPORT line reveal virtually almost no coking during this test.

RR’s analysis: A Group V lubricant, in the top tier of available lubes

 

Thanks RR. Good info. Keep us posted on Amsoil if you learn anything.

eCo

 

So RR, according to you, Mobil 1 is still fully synthetic? The posts that are putting it down as of recently are shiat?
And it seems that you have compared Amsoil's regular synthetic oil in your posts. What do you think of their Series 2000 0W30?

Or, if you want to give me a short version, just answer this: Would you rather pay $5 for Amsoil's 5W30 or Mobil 1 5W30, or $10 for Redline's oil. Or will valvoline do the trick. The engine in question is wife's new Camry and I just mainly want to keep it clean and in great condition in case we decide to keep it past 60K miles. It will never be used for anythyng more than for regular city/hwy driving.
Thanks, and as always, good work!

P.S. Damn dude, i just read the stuff on the link you provided above. You do some heavy reading... I don't know how many people out there actually realize how much technical crap you go through to provide us with an easy to read summary.

 

Holy crap, Road......

I couldnt wipe my a$$ with all of that information if I were stranded on an island and had nothing but "that novel" to use...Seriously, though, thanks for everything you do to provide info like that....i will admit i didnt read one complete sentence of it but i know it helps other people so thanks.....have a good weekend...

 

It is hard being me...:p

Thanks for the encouragement - I get depressed sometimes as the Web encourages everyone to be an expert, but many do not do their homework.

Anyway, my recommendation (which has changed over the last few months) is that Group II mineral oils (store sourced Pennzoil, Valvoline, QS) are absolutely fine for nearly all driving, and that synoils are good for:
1) extended useage with oil analysis
2) use in arctic climates
3) for vehicles routinely towing heavy loads in high ambient temps
4) for racing

I plan to use Pennzoil 5w30 + 1 quart of Red Line in all my cars from now on, with 5k changes.

However, I still recommend Red Line for trannies, gears, differentials, etc. There, the added performance and protection are regularly tested, and the essentially "fill for life" negates the price/perf ratio.

 

RR

I'm curious why the change of heart from straight Redline? I'm assuming it's a cost/benefit equation. The Group II + 1 qt of Redline gives the majority of the benefits of a full synthetic fill but at much less cost? Would this combo approach be sufficient for a 7500 mile change interval? Are there oils to avoid mixing with Redline? Do you need to match the viscosities?

Your statement at the end "I still recommend Red Line for trannies..." gave me concern. For Honda auto trannies, isn't ONLY Honda ATF required?

Glad to see you around occassionally to pass out the oil knowledge!

 

Road Rage,

Thanks again for all of the info that you provide. What are your thoughts about the engine oil additives out there like Duralube? I'm sure everybody has seen those info-mercials where they do the side by side test with oils and the "miracle" that the additives can do.

Good stuff or bad?