DAY Type S

Soundspeed,

I spoke to my buddy after thinking about your comments with entrapment and if you race an undercover police vehicle it is your fault.

He was cruisin the eisenhower at around midnight and the copper was inticing to take him on and he played along and he said they hit 100-105 MPH without signals changing lanes. The cop then dropped back and drew his cherries.

He was ticketed for improper lane usage, tinted windows,speeding, and reckless use of a motor vehicle to be exact. He gave the cop a hard time and after threatened by the pigger to be brought in - he calmed down and took the tickets.

He is seeking a powerful attorney to dispute several of the charges.

He said The cop stated " Fun can be expensive can't it"!!

BLUBYU

Im no cop, but it doesnt seem like entrapment to me either. Enticing someone to break the law is not entrapment, if they choose to break it anyway. Undercover cops selling crack are not entrapping people, if the person chooses to buy it they broke the law end of story. The theory is the person would of broke the law regardless. The police can leave the keys in a 500 benz in the projects, there not entrapping people, if they choose to steal the car.....GAME OVER! they get arrested.

zesta

Uhm. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it illegal for the cop to drive 100mph without his lights already on !?!?

-Randy

SoundSpeed

You know what is funny to me? The fact that cops can race and recklessly change lanes and go up to high speeds to get people to break the law. So, I guess it is ok for cops to put the public in danger to entice a person to race just so they can make a quota and make a few extra bucks for the city. Does this not sound funny to you guys?

What happened to all the b.s. we hear on this forum about how bad it is to race and how it puts other people at risk? But hey, it is a cop so it must be ok. It is a cop so I guess he won't cause an accident.

What about how in some areas cops are not allowed to engage in high speed pursuits because of the risk it poses to the public? I guess it is bad to pursue criminals at high speeds but it is ok to travel fast when you are trying to get an INNOCENT person to speed up so they can violate traffic laws and you can pull them over.

This is a bunch of sh!t to me. I guess all people are essentially guilty then since it is assumed that we are going to break the law anyway. So I guess it is ok for cops to play games with us and help us along in breaking the law.

Why stop at speeding? Cops should start breaking into people's homes to see if the people will shoot at them. Then when the people shoot the cops can bust them for attempted murder. Who cares if the cops are committing breaking and entering to entice the people to shoot, if they can speed and put people's lives at risk you might as well let them break and enter in the pursuit of fvcking justice. I guess cops can come up to us in plain clothes and punch us in the face so that when we retaliate and punch them back they can book us on assualt charges since we would have done it anyway, right? They might as well throw us all in jail since we are all guilty of robbery, right? I mean if you walked by a dark house with the doors left open we would all go inside and grab the t.v., no?

My point is, this kind of crap is ridiculous. They are already making a meal ticket off of traffic violations, yet they feel that is not enough and now they have to more aggresively pursue us. Historically, certain laws or methods will start out small and people won't notice. The powers that be will use this apathy to their advantage and ever so slightly increase their power and their reach. Big Brother is getting bigger and eventually we will all smother. This is still a free country, but things are changing and this whole camaro bit is just the beginning. A lot of it has to do with money and revenue generating, but a lot of it has to do with limiting certain freedoms that we enjoy for the sake of "keeping order". I think I may have skewed off a little bit, but I believe in some way it is all related.

Mr.T

$250 DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG
That's not bad at all LOL Man with reckless driving they could charge for a whole butch of Junk. It's an automatic 2 points on driving record. Atleast a 1200 fine and possible jail time. For me I had to pay the fine and do some community service instead of going to traffic school again(this traffic school does not reduce your points) This is with a lawyer. O well but if the cop broke the law before you did you should totally fight it. Two wrongs doesn't make a right

Mr.T

exemptplt

As I posted in another thread:

In most areas, the police are exempt from vehicle code during the performance of their duties (e.g. parking in the red, illegal u-turns, speeding, etc). Maybe that applies to tinted windows in your area as well.

I really don't agree with the method (challenging someone to race and then ticketing them is pretty low), but the bottom line is that the other driver has a choice to race or not. It would be another thing entirely if they (your local law enforcement) brandished a firearm at you on the highway and then, when you sped up to get away from being shot, gave you a ticket for speeding...

I don't know of any LEO's who earn commission on the tickets they issue.

People do the right thing either because they believe that the right thing is the right thing to do, or they don't want to get caught/punished for doing the wrong thing, or they don't want to get caught/punished again for doing the wrong thing. Kinda like maintaining monagamy.

If you obey the laws, chances are you won't get a ticket and you won't get arrested. Yes, Temptation is a Beeotch. I respect those of you who are mature enough to admit that you deserved a ticket when you were righteously issued one.

badazzS

I thought this was the right thing to do since the beginning. This is the only way to really crack down on street racing. Think about it, the next time you try to go and race someone, you might think "Is this guy a cop, trying to get me to race, or what"? You then have a very good chance then of not racing him then, will you? I think this is a good idea since road rage plays a very big part in the racing scenes. I mean, this is usually how it starts, I want to get over and no one will let me in so I speed up and kind of cut the guy off. He gets pi$$ed and starts to try to get back in front of me and cuts me back off. Now you have two pi$$ed of people instead of one going faster. It's not always just good clean fun. I have found this out first hand! People get sooo pi$$ed when you beat them, they start doing some pretty dumb $hit!
Anyway, I don't know the WHOLE story, this is just my opinion. I would like to know what exactly had happened so that I can understand why everyone is getting so mad
As for the 250 someone posted that he was ticketed, I don't think that is a lot, he did get off pretty good

JPritch

SOUNDSPEED, I see that you share my rage about the 5-0!


I think all this stuff is shady. There was a police show that had plainclothed LAPD officers, a male and female in two separate cars, pull next to groups of loitering youths at which point the male and female would get out of their cars and start arguing, then the male would tell the woman to get into his car, leaving her car unattended and running. The youths would then take the bait after some deliberation. The police had some kind of device that would lock the youths in the car they just stole. This was WRONG! Those kids(and they got alot of them), would probably have minded their own business that night and never gotten into trouble if it weren't for the police's actions. Now they tossed these guys into a vicious cycle of crime that is hard to break free from(go to jail, meet bad people, get out, can't find work, hang out with bad people, go back to jail etc.......)



F the po po.

BLUBYU

Yea sure the cops MADE those poor innocent youth steal that car, because it was there with the keys in it? Give me a break, I dont know about you guys but if I see a car w/ the keys in it, or a house with the door open I dont assume its alright to steal the stuff. I guess you wouldnt mind if you left the keys in your TLS accidentally and these kids took it, after all its your fault because you forgot to take the keys with you. Not there fault for being scummy thieves who steal stuff because they cant afford it... Everybody hates cops until you need one!

gohawks63

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying this one. Nobody forced the kids to attempt to steal the car! What happened to people taking responsibility for their actions?! Let's see, I go to a bacheleor party, there's a stripper, I sleep with her, my wife finds out, now I tell her, "honey, it's not my fault! I had a couple of drinks and she was waving her naked breasts in front of me! If she wouldn't have taken her cloths off I would have never done it!"

Yeah that'll work.

That's the problem with society today, nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions. I'm not flaming anyone for speeding or racing, although I have a problem with racing on residential streets. Not to be corny, but to quote a song from a classic '70s cop show. "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time".

I view the whole speeding thing as a game. I have my radar detectors and am always watching for them. They can hide and be as sneaky as they want. I can either play the game, or I can play it safe and follow the limit and be assured of not getting fined. If I decide to play, I'm not gonna complain if I get caught.

I made the choice, no one forced me.

tdoh

Yep, that's one of the problems in our society today--people have no problem blaming others for their own faults, and even when they're caught red-handed, won't even acknowledge that they screwed up. Some people just perpetually live in denial of themselves...

JPritch--not to flame you for your comment about the LA entrapment, but picture it this way...if it was you instead of those youths, would you have done the same thing (steal the car)? Or to put it another way--how many youths did the undercovers not catch because they (the youths) were either smart enough to know better (or were perhaps smart enough not to fall for such a trick)?

Tony

jeremyelkins

Sorry but I have to side with the cops. I like to race like every one else but cops have a job to do - remember - it's just a job for them. They go under cover for all sorts of things - why should street racing be different? If you can't take a ticket - then don't race. Simple.

MikeyB

Go aub.....

"I view the whole speeding thing as a game. I have my radar detectors and am always watching for them. They can hide and be as sneaky as they want. I can either play the game, or I can play it safe and follow the limit and be assured of not getting fined. If I decide to play, I'm not gonna complain if I get caught.

I made the choice, no one forced me."

NOw let's just say you got a ticket in the mail for reckless speeding b/c you just admitted that you "play the game" you'd be pissed and scream entrapment. Don't play the holier than thou attitude, I agree that people don't take responsibility for his/her actions, but there is a limit, our law enforcement doesn't "help" anyone with this practice

gohawks63

You don't know me so don't go assuming what I would say. If I was speeding and I got a ticket how could I scream entrapment! I did it. If you mean that I would get a ticket just because I stated I "play the game", that's an irrelavent arguement because in order to get a ticket, you have to have been caught in the act. Admitting I play the game isn't a "smoking gun".

It's very simple, signs along the road post the speed limit, my speedometer tells me how fast I'm going. If my speedometer is above what's posted on the sign, I'M SPEEDING!!!!! No one trapped me. I made that decision.

I have only gotten three speeding tickets in my 22 years of driving. knock on wood In each case the cop was hiding and he nailed me fair and square. I was speeding and he caught me. Should I scream "ENTRAPMENT" because he was hiding and he succeeded in catching me? Puh-leeease!!

MikeyB

I am merely stating that a confession in a court of law is the same as being caught.

hypothetical situation: Tim (snook) is a police officer who set up this forum to have people freely admit their crimes of speeding and reckless driving (racing other cars) and can identify you by IP address or some other fashion. You then get a ticket in the mail, stating your crime... would you be upset?

If a cop beckoned someone to race, which neither of us knows what exactly happened, the driver shouldn't be given a laundry list of tix. granted, you or I wouldn't have made the same decision to race a cop... but there is a limit to where this approach gets us (the police side that is)

How would you feel, granted this is different, is a Ricer pulled next to you on an open road, and beckoned you to race... would you do it if he kept insisting? (Of course your answer is "no")
However, I say eventually, you gun it just because. after you pull away and hit 90. a flashing light comes on and the ricer pulls you over, he is actually UC. You'd be pissed and write about on the forum, NO?

that is his point, will he get entrapment? NOPE. He will pay his tix and that's that.

But it seems to me, that everyone who flames on here about the title, is taking the typical holier than thou approach. and that is just STUPID

gohawks63

I see what you're trying to say, but you're still comparing apples to oranges. Let me bring up a slightly different example. Photo radar has had a hard time getting off the ground in the US, cause unless you can get a picture of the driver, you can easily argue that it wasn't you driving the car. I remember reading an editorial in Car & Driver about this. If a picture of a car speeding has a hard time standing up in court, I find it hard to believe that me stating that "I play the game" will get me a ticket.

Agreed, but there has to have been a specific crime (i.e. murder, robbery, assault, etc.). If I went up to a cop and told him I smoked pot in high school, I doubt that it would go anywhere. Hell even our former president admitted to toking and wasn't charged. Oh yeah, I forgot, he didn't inhale .

Last I remember, a citation lists specifics (i.e. date, time, location, infraction). A generic admission that I sometimes speed isn't going to cut it in a court of law. Hell, unfortunately even a scum like a child molester could make a general admission, but unless a victim is found or at least identified, I don't think anything would happen, but I'll leave that argument to the lawyers.

We digress from our point....

Don't necessarily assume I wouldn't race. I might, but I'd better be prepared for the consequences if I'm caught.

Sure I'd be upset I got a ticket. I played the game, got caught and now it's costing me money. Would I be upset at the cop? I probably be more upset with the situation than the cop himself. Would I write about it on the forum? Sure I would, more so to warn everyone else here.

We all make choices, the cop can be as tricky as he wants, but unless he can force my foot down on that accelerator against my will, it's still my choice to make.

gohawks63

[deleted... dup. reply]

gohawks63

I did it again, double posted and it won't let me delete one!

[Edited it for you] - juniorbean

tdoh

True; however, municipalities are finding ways to circumvent this "loophole". For starters, they could classify a photo ticket as a civil infraction (instead of a traffic infraction), so the burden of proof isn't as great (remember OJ? he got off in the criminal trial but got reamed in the civil lawsuit). Also, they could lay the burden of proof on the registered owner of the vehicle if they can identify via license plate. Sure, you could say that it's not your problem that someone else broke the law while driving your vehicle, but at the same time the traffic courts could compel you to either identify the person who was driving your car at that time (one would think that you would know who had your car if it wasn't you who was driving it at that moment, unless you're gonna claim that someone stole it from you) or else pay the fine.

Such tickets could theoretically be put under the same classification as parking tickets--note that parking tickets are usually assessed to the registered owner of the vehicle, not the person who committed the violation...unless of course said person happened to be caught in the act.

Tony

gohawks63

I don't dispute any of what you said, but the bottom line is that it isn't entrapment.

tdoh

Okay, but I wasn't trying to make a stance as to whether or not some tactic could be considered entrapment...but providing a counterpoint to your photo radar statement.