Unleaded Fuel (89 or 93?)
04-20-2001, 08:40 AM
#1
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Unleaded Fuel (89 or 93?)
I know that the manual recommends to fill up with at least 91 octane. What were you recommended? What are you filling up with?
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2002 TL-S Aegean Blue Pearl. Underbody Kit, Spoiler
"260 Horsepower of maximum performance. This is BLUE SUNSHINE!" - Thunderkiss '02
Sweet!!!
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2002 TL-S Aegean Blue Pearl. Underbody Kit, Spoiler
"260 Horsepower of maximum performance. This is BLUE SUNSHINE!" - Thunderkiss '02
Sweet!!!
04-20-2001, 09:43 AM
#2
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Chevron Supreme 92 Octane (California). Someone taught me a long time ago to use top of the line Chevron gas to keep the injectors clean on Hondas.
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Fins^
2002 TL-S w/Navi
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Fins^
2002 TL-S w/Navi
Satin Silver
04-20-2001, 12:33 PM
#7
Sticky Rice OwnZ joO
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The debate continues...
Please do a search on fuel, gas, etc...
This will keep going on and on... It comes up about once every month and people start calling eachother snobs and so on for what kind of gas they use.
You've been informed..
Trending Topics
04-20-2001, 02:28 PM
#9
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Originally posted by Edub-TL:
The debate continues...
Please do a search on fuel, gas, etc...
This will keep going on and on... It comes up about once every month and people start calling eachother snobs and so on for what kind of gas they use.
You've been informed..
The debate continues...
Please do a search on fuel, gas, etc...
This will keep going on and on... It comes up about once every month and people start calling eachother snobs and so on for what kind of gas they use.
You've been informed..
It started.
------------------
2002 TL-S Aegean Blue Pearl. Underbody Kit, Spoiler
"260 Horsepower of maximum performance. This is BLUE SUNSHINE!" - Thunderkiss '02
Sweet!!!
04-20-2001, 02:41 PM
#10
WayTooManyAcuras
I used "rot-gut" cheap 87 Octane for 2 years in my 99TL. (It was a lease! 
) The car still performed well.
In my TL-S, so far I have only used 93 Octane. If the prices crest $2.00 a gallon, I may have to rethink this...
:-jon
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-------------------------------------------
2002 TL-S NAV Black/Black
w/Spoiler, Body Kit, Bowling Ball Wheel,
Bowling Ball Gauge & Vent Trim Kit
Comptech Springs
Comptech Exhaust
Pictures at:
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1626677&f=0
" TARGET=_blank>http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1626677&f=0
</A>
) The car still performed well.In my TL-S, so far I have only used 93 Octane. If the prices crest $2.00 a gallon, I may have to rethink this...
:-jon
------------------
-------------------------------------------
2002 TL-S NAV Black/Black
w/Spoiler, Body Kit, Bowling Ball Wheel,
Bowling Ball Gauge & Vent Trim Kit
Comptech Springs
Comptech Exhaust
Pictures at:
<A HREF="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1626677&f=0
" TARGET=_blank>http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=1626677&f=0
</A>
04-20-2001, 03:49 PM
#11
Even if gas prices sky-rocket to late-2001 levels - you still gotta figure that you're paying what.. another $200.00 instead of say $150.00 a year for premium. And for whatever mythical reasons that premium may be better for your car and its performance, I say what the hey, why not!
I think psychologically it's harder to see those near $30.00 tank fills each time we go to the pump. When you take it w/ some persepctive .. it ain't so bad.
$0.02 ... um, do you take MasterCard?
I think psychologically it's harder to see those near $30.00 tank fills each time we go to the pump. When you take it w/ some persepctive .. it ain't so bad.
$0.02 ... um, do you take MasterCard?
04-20-2001, 03:56 PM
#12
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Don't forget, TL-S has a higher compression ratio than the TL, so you should definitely stick to over 91 octane with a type S.
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- Nick, still shopping for an 02, w/ or w/out nav
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- Nick, still shopping for an 02, w/ or w/out nav
04-20-2001, 03:59 PM
#13
Sticky Rice OwnZ joO
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Originally posted by ssokol91:
You are a snob!!!
It started.
You are a snob!!!
It started.
If you posted this in the regular TL forum, trust me there would be much more discussion.
I just fillup w/what the manual says to put in. I don't even notice it anymore even if the prices here in the Bay are $2.13 per gallon.
04-20-2001, 06:00 PM
#14
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This is an excerpt from a web-site which has everything you ever wanted to know about gas but were afraid to ask:
The link is http://www.mr2.com/TEXT/gasoline_faq.txt
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by SC TL on April 20, 2001 @ ]</font>
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by SC TL on April 22, 2001 @ ]</font>
A modern engine management system can compensate for altitude, ambient air
temperature, and fuel octane. The management system will also control cold
start settings, and other operational parameters. There is a new requirement
that the engine management system also contain an on-board diagnostic
function that warns of malfunctions such as engine misfire, exhaust catalyst
failure, and evaporative emissions failure. The use of fuels with alcohols
such as methanol can confuse the engine management system as they generate
more hydrogen which can fool the oxygen sensor [76] .
The use of fuel of too low octane can actually result in both a loss of fuel
economy and power, as the management system may have to move the engine
settings to a less efficient part of the performance map. The system retards
the ignition timing until only trace knock is detected, as engine damage from knock is of more consequence than power and fuel economy.
temperature, and fuel octane. The management system will also control cold
start settings, and other operational parameters. There is a new requirement
that the engine management system also contain an on-board diagnostic
function that warns of malfunctions such as engine misfire, exhaust catalyst
failure, and evaporative emissions failure. The use of fuels with alcohols
such as methanol can confuse the engine management system as they generate
more hydrogen which can fool the oxygen sensor [76] .
The use of fuel of too low octane can actually result in both a loss of fuel
economy and power, as the management system may have to move the engine
settings to a less efficient part of the performance map. The system retards
the ignition timing until only trace knock is detected, as engine damage from knock is of more consequence than power and fuel economy.
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by SC TL on April 20, 2001 @ ]</font>
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by SC TL on April 22, 2001 @ ]</font>
04-20-2001, 06:57 PM
#15
WayTooManyAcuras
p.s. How come my UBB quote codes don't work?
:-jon
04-20-2001, 11:14 PM
#17
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I generally use regular (87 octane), and have had no problems with pinging or power.
I've seen no noticible difference with premium, although I'm thinking about trying to for a while to see if higher octane improves my mileage.
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David
Black-on-Black non-NAV 2000
I've seen no noticible difference with premium, although I'm thinking about trying to for a while to see if higher octane improves my mileage.
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David
Black-on-Black non-NAV 2000
04-21-2001, 12:50 AM
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I think you will find better performance and better MPG by using the premium fuel. There was a study done in some car mag that compared premium with regular and it turned out the car was getting better mileage with the premium and it was actually costing LESS to use premium. There is not that much difference in the prices.
04-24-2001, 07:47 AM
#22
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Originally posted by Raptor:
My Sunoco gas station in Toronto has 94 octane. Is that too rich!
My Sunoco gas station in Toronto has 94 octane. Is that too rich!
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04-25-2001, 02:56 AM
#23
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INTERESTING THOUGHT- I talked to one of my friends that knows where to get 100 octane gas. He put it in his 1.8 T passat and said the car was alot faster. You think the Type S would benefit from this fuel and will it kill the engine????
04-25-2001, 10:27 AM
#24
Not a Blowhole
This topic comes up over and over, so I am not going to give the full engineer's perspective I did (search for it if you want the full Monty).
1) 87 octane will cause a drop of about 5 HP at the higher rpms, and the loss of a bit more in torque lower down. That is about it, based on industry documents I have on file.
2) Kncok is not an issue due to the sensor and ability of PCM to compensate by retarding timing.
3) Far greater issue is the fact that higher octane burns more slowly than 87, and it is possible that there could be long term detriment to downstream components - exhaust valves, manifolds, and especially catalytic converter. Any unburned or still bi=urning gases entering the catalytic run the risk of melting or damaging the honeycomb. This would probably take a while, so it would not be an issue for a leased car. But if you intend to keep it, the catalytic might fail 2 miles out of warranty!
4) Finally, the mix of detergents can vary from grade to grade - I heard there is more Techron in premium than lowtest, but cannot confirm. I still use and recommend Redline SI-2 used with each fillup.
If you routinely drive on the highway, 87 is okay because the demands on the engine there are so low.
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Rage On!
2002 TL-S w. Comptech header/exhaust
SSR Integral A2's
17x7 45mm offset
Pirelli P7000 (Summer) 215-50/17
1) 87 octane will cause a drop of about 5 HP at the higher rpms, and the loss of a bit more in torque lower down. That is about it, based on industry documents I have on file.
2) Kncok is not an issue due to the sensor and ability of PCM to compensate by retarding timing.
3) Far greater issue is the fact that higher octane burns more slowly than 87, and it is possible that there could be long term detriment to downstream components - exhaust valves, manifolds, and especially catalytic converter. Any unburned or still bi=urning gases entering the catalytic run the risk of melting or damaging the honeycomb. This would probably take a while, so it would not be an issue for a leased car. But if you intend to keep it, the catalytic might fail 2 miles out of warranty!
4) Finally, the mix of detergents can vary from grade to grade - I heard there is more Techron in premium than lowtest, but cannot confirm. I still use and recommend Redline SI-2 used with each fillup.
If you routinely drive on the highway, 87 is okay because the demands on the engine there are so low.
------------------
Rage On!
2002 TL-S w. Comptech header/exhaust
SSR Integral A2's
17x7 45mm offset
Pirelli P7000 (Summer) 215-50/17
04-25-2001, 10:31 AM
#25
Not a Blowhole
Overboosting octane (such as the Audi post above) often does more harm than good.
First, burn rates are optimized to the cylinder dimensions, pistion design, and compression ratio. Too much octane can mean the burn rate is too slow, allowing unburnt gas to enter the exhaust, and lowering power.
Plus, 100 octane is often racing or worse, AVgas, which do not have the needed additives for day to day driving.
Those claims of more power from super octane are usually just placebo effect - wishful thinking.
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Rage On!
2002 TL-S w. Comptech header/exhaust
SSR Integral A2's
17x7 45mm offset
Pirelli P7000 (Summer) 215-50/17
First, burn rates are optimized to the cylinder dimensions, pistion design, and compression ratio. Too much octane can mean the burn rate is too slow, allowing unburnt gas to enter the exhaust, and lowering power.
Plus, 100 octane is often racing or worse, AVgas, which do not have the needed additives for day to day driving.
Those claims of more power from super octane are usually just placebo effect - wishful thinking.
------------------
Rage On!
2002 TL-S w. Comptech header/exhaust
SSR Integral A2's
17x7 45mm offset
Pirelli P7000 (Summer) 215-50/17
04-25-2001, 10:56 AM
#26
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While it's true that octane, by definition, is a resistance to ignition, I think saying that unburnt gas is escaping is stretching the facts (or at least saying that enough is escaping to damage the catalytic converter). While it would theoretically burn more slowly, it's not like we're talking a huge difference in time... fractions of a second. A higher compression ratio would only aid in burning fuel more completely. There are tons of 10+ year old cars around that have well functioning catalytic converters and it only stands to reason that emissions control systems have only gotten BETTER with time -- witness the LEV and ULEV ratings of the TL. At the very least, emissions system components (such as catalytic converters) are covered under much longer warranties.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Bosch engine management system in Audis and VWs is actually able to advance the ignition timing to take advantage of higher octane fuel as opposed to only being able to retard it when less than recommended octane fuel is used. The the placebo effect would likely not apply here... with the Bosch engine management system on a turbocharged motor... using higher octane would allow the ECU to advance timing, allowing the engine to run more efficiently and create more exhaust energy that would spool the turbo up quicker. I cannot, however, feel a difference between 87 & 93 in my mom's CR-V -- as there is no difference since the engine management system is incapable of advancing timing and taking advantage of higher octane fuel.
Sorry for the long post... but my feeling on the subject is that the people who engineered the car know best... if they say 91+ I'm using 91+. Even at today's high gas prices, the difference between a year of fill-ups using premium versus mid-grade or regular isn't all that big. Even if there's a 20 cent spread.. someone like me who buys, say, 12 gallons a week, will "save" $125 a year. Not exactly a fortune... and not a lot to pay for peace of mind and to ensure that you're extracting as much power as the engine is capable of producing.
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2000 WDP 3.2TL non-NAV
AEM CAI
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by RAdams on April 25, 2001 @ ]</font>
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Bosch engine management system in Audis and VWs is actually able to advance the ignition timing to take advantage of higher octane fuel as opposed to only being able to retard it when less than recommended octane fuel is used. The the placebo effect would likely not apply here... with the Bosch engine management system on a turbocharged motor... using higher octane would allow the ECU to advance timing, allowing the engine to run more efficiently and create more exhaust energy that would spool the turbo up quicker. I cannot, however, feel a difference between 87 & 93 in my mom's CR-V -- as there is no difference since the engine management system is incapable of advancing timing and taking advantage of higher octane fuel.
Sorry for the long post... but my feeling on the subject is that the people who engineered the car know best... if they say 91+ I'm using 91+. Even at today's high gas prices, the difference between a year of fill-ups using premium versus mid-grade or regular isn't all that big. Even if there's a 20 cent spread.. someone like me who buys, say, 12 gallons a week, will "save" $125 a year. Not exactly a fortune... and not a lot to pay for peace of mind and to ensure that you're extracting as much power as the engine is capable of producing.
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2000 WDP 3.2TL non-NAV
AEM CAI
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by RAdams on April 25, 2001 @ ]</font>
04-25-2001, 11:15 PM
#27
Guest
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Interesting ...
I went to the Sunoco web site in canada and noted the following information:
Sunoco offers the widest choice of octane on the market, and our Ultra 94 is the highest octane available on the street. Our gasoline grades include:
- Ultra94 (94 Octane)
- Supreme (92 Octane)
- Plus (89.5 Octane)
- Regular (87 Octane)
Octane is the measure of a fuel’s ability to resist knocking. Refining higher octane fuels is a costly but performance-enhancing process. Based on the age of your car or its engine specifications, you may require higher-than-regular octane gasoline for best performance. The benefits of higher octane fuels are proven and they increase with the age of a vehicle.
From experience, I exclusively used Octane 94 for 2+ years on my Maxima SE. It never hesitated on acceleration or stalled. When I decided that I would not buy back back the car off lease I changed to 87.
Well the car never drove the same. The iginition did not start the first time each time. Upon hard acceleration, the car would hesitate etc.
There is no question in my mind that immediately after I changed to lower grade gasoline (octane 87) the performance on the car fell.
These are performance cars. On that basis should use the recommended 91+ octane. From experience I can tell you that having used 94 octane on the car, there was NEVER a drop in performance. If you can afford it - buy it!
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Raptor on April 25, 2001 @ ]</font>
I went to the Sunoco web site in canada and noted the following information:
Sunoco offers the widest choice of octane on the market, and our Ultra 94 is the highest octane available on the street. Our gasoline grades include:
- Ultra94 (94 Octane)
- Supreme (92 Octane)
- Plus (89.5 Octane)
- Regular (87 Octane)
Octane is the measure of a fuel’s ability to resist knocking. Refining higher octane fuels is a costly but performance-enhancing process. Based on the age of your car or its engine specifications, you may require higher-than-regular octane gasoline for best performance. The benefits of higher octane fuels are proven and they increase with the age of a vehicle.
From experience, I exclusively used Octane 94 for 2+ years on my Maxima SE. It never hesitated on acceleration or stalled. When I decided that I would not buy back back the car off lease I changed to 87.
Well the car never drove the same. The iginition did not start the first time each time. Upon hard acceleration, the car would hesitate etc.
There is no question in my mind that immediately after I changed to lower grade gasoline (octane 87) the performance on the car fell.
These are performance cars. On that basis should use the recommended 91+ octane. From experience I can tell you that having used 94 octane on the car, there was NEVER a drop in performance. If you can afford it - buy it!
<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Raptor on April 25, 2001 @ ]</font>
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