Type S Lady

O.k., call me cheap call me whatever you want. I'm getting ready to hit 7500miles and it's about time for my oil change. My sister swears I need to get synthetic oil which from Acura is $8 a quart So my thinking is this, my manual says nothing about using synthetic oil, unless I've missed something. I just want the regular oil change for $28 from the dealer. This is my third Honda and have never used synthetic oil and have never had any problems. So is the use of synthetic oil going overboard? Or is it just taking EXTRA GOOD care of your ride? Is it really necessary? And if it was don't you think the manual would say so? Anyway, please tell me your opinions and what the big difference is. Thanks!!!:p

r10apple

It's just better oil period and especially so in extreme circumstances...
Since I have mods and drive like I stole it in Florida (you're here too), I switched over to the Mobil 1...I, however, buy it a Napa for 4.79 a quart and take it to the dealer...Ends up costing like $45 for the whole oil change if they charged me, but, and don't be pissed, my dealer does not charge for intermediate oil changes if you get the major services there...So it costs me just short of $30...
Really, you don't need it in the long run!!!

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Using synthetic oil is just taking "extra good care" of your engine. It's in no way required, but it is better for the car. If you do a search you will find TONS of information regarding synthetics. Just keep in mind that if you switch to synthetics, you should stay with synthetics as it's not good to switch back and forth.

Now, let's say you use regular oil and it's around $30 for the oil change. Figure you change the oil every 4k miles because you're good to your car, but let's be honest, not many people change the oil right at 3k. Now, lets say you drive 12k miles a year. That's 3 oil changes per year at $30 per oil change which comes out to around $90 per year in oil.

Now, I drive close to 18k miles per year, but I use synthetic. A case of the Redline 5w20 that I use costs me around $90 and my filters are aroung $11 each (Amsoil). I know, you're saying holy crap, that's expensive. It is, however, I only change my oil twice per year because I can go up to 10k miles per change (I usually do it around 8500) so in the end my oil changes are just about as much as yours are with regular oil, except I'm using better oil.

So yes, synthetic seems like a lot more money, but when you figure it out, at the end of a year, it's just about the same. Oh, and I do my own oil changes.... takes less then a 1/2 hour and most of that time is letting the oil drain, so I do not pay anyone to do the oil change. That helps keep the cost down a little as well.

Just some food for through for ya!!

Type S Lady

Thanks guys, this site is too good to me. One last question, why do you use Amsoil filters, will the Acura filter do if I use synthetic?

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

There are actually many people who us the Acura filters with synthetics. The reason that I chose the Amsoil filter is b/c it's slightly larger and offers a longer drain interval, which is good since you can go longer with the synthetic. Mobil1 filters are also very comparible to the Amsoil filter and are about $1-$2 cheaper.

Type S Lady

Ohhhh, o.k. I got it! O.k. this really is the last question so I don't beat this issue to death. Why did you choose Mobil1 over Redline?

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

I do actually use Redline. I used to use Mobil1, but when they switch to their new TriSyn, I didn't trust it, so I switched to a proven true synthetic. The only reason I switched my filters from Mobil1 to Amsoil is because the Amsoil filters were easier and quicker for me to get.

gobluetwo

from comparing the specs of various synthetic oils, i firmly believe that you will not see any advantage to using redline over mobil1 for a daily driven car. only under regular extreme usage (towing, racing, etc) would the difference likely be apparent.

if you're in a very hot (like AZ) or very cold (midwestern winters) climate, the extra high heat protection and cold flow properties of synthetic oil probably do save engine wear over the long term.

for someone who doesn't change their own oil, i'd suggest learning how to do it yourself (it's VERY easy) or getting someone you know and trust (friend, relative, mechanic) to do it for you. and for most daily driven cars, conventional oil at regular intervals (according to owner's manual) is sufficient.

my 2 cents

R Man

Mobile ! every 7,500 miles.

r10apple

I use Mobil 1 'cuz it was on the shelf at Napa and advertises a lot. Big brother sucked me in...
I change mine at 7,500 mile intervals as well...I use the regular Acura filters...

hangman

I know this is overkill but I change oil at 2500 miles with Mobile 1 and OEM oil filter in all of my cars. You can get Mobil 1 at Costco or Sam pretty cheap. At Costco, they are $22.75 for a case(6). I put alot of miles (~25k/year) on the car and I live in very hot and humid environment (Houston) so I figure the extra precaution can't hurt....

r10apple

Hangman's sig--ROFFL...Or why you change your oil in your minivan every 2500 miles!!!

LiQiCE

I use Mobil 1 too (5w30), get it from Sam's Club, but I've been using standard Fram Filters. I usually change every ~5,000 miles. Probably going to switch to the Amsoil (or Mobil 1 if I can find it) filter next time just for peace of mind.

Mr Zipps

I use Valvoline Synthetic and Mobil 1 Filter. I used to use Mobil 1 Super Syn an Switched the Volvoline Syn. Can't really tell a difference and Valvoline is cheaper.

this is me

Should I go with 5w 30 or 5w20 or 10w30??
whats the difference??

mushutofu

10W30 is for warmer weather and or if you drive your car harder.
5W30 is the norm if you live in a moderate climate.
In most instanced 5W30 is sufficient.

rozello

According to the owner's manual the type of oil to be used is 5W-20. It is even stamped on the engine near the oil filler cap. Why would you use any other kind of oil?

mushutofu

Sometimes you need to use different oil. You dont always drive 65mph in a 65mph zone. Just because the TL manual suggests oil changes every 7500miles doesn't mean you only change the oil 7500miles. Don't just blindly trudge through life without thinking.
Too many mindless people out there that just don't think. Be original.

rozello

Again, why would you put a different weight oil other than what the manufacturer recc?. You give no reason other than to be original. Do you have a reason that is supported in fact? For example: you did a long term study and you discovered that a different oil reduced engine wear.

pianoman41

I use conventional oil in my '02 TL-S. I faithfully change the oil/filter in my car every 4000 miles, just as I have with every car I've owned. I've owned six cars in my lifetime and driven over 750,000 miles and I've never had an oil- or wear-related failure of an engine component. Personally I think synthetic oil is a waste of money if you change your oil on a regular basis.

Now if you want to go longer intervals between oil changes or if your vehicle sees harder-than-normal driving (i.e. sustained high RPMs or track use), then synthetic oil may be a logical choice. But for 95% of vehicle owners conventional is just fine.

mushutofu

Hey Roz
I know for a fact that for my 2002 Chevy Tahoe the manuals recommends 5W30 but also suggests using 10W30 as well. Recently when I drove through Las Vegas I had the dealer change my oil to a 10W30 because it get like freakin 110 degress out there. Please know what you are talking about before looking stupid.

fla-tls

From what I understand, car manufacturers are required to specify the oil that was used in the car during EPA certification. The TL is ULEV, and TL-S is LEV. I used to work in an industry that heavily depended on two-cycle engines, and I can tell you that the EPA and CARB are tightening the restrictions every year (although CARB recently relaxed a little).

5w20 is thinner at temperature and provides better emmissions, but would not protect quite as well at high temperatures and high loads. The flow at cold temperature would be about the same.

It's my opinion that 5w30 provides a little better protection at temperature. I believe that earlier manuals (i.e. 99~2000) actually specified 5w30 (as did the owners link website when I bought my 02 TL-S - they have since changed that site to 5w20).

rozello

Thanks Fla-Tls. That's good info.

Mushy I'm asking about an acura TLS, not not a Chevy Tahoe.

NSXDreamer

For those out there wondering if the 5W-30 Mobil 1 suitable for our engines (since the 5W-30 is the closest Mobil1 to the 5W-20)... Look what I found at WalMart yesterday...

Mobil 1 had a new fomulated 0W-20, no it's not a typo, it's 0W-20, which they wrote all over the box that is specially formulated to suit the newer Honda/Acura engines that recommend using 0W-20...

Now all those motor oil geek out there would you please shed some light on the pros and cons for the 0W-20???

NSXDreamer

you may find the info over here:

https://dallnd6.dal.mobil.com/GIS/Mo...0?OpenDocument

tdoh

I suppose you'd use only the Acura OEM oil filter since I believe the manual states that it is the only type that should be used for an oil change IIRC, no?

10w-30 can be used safely in the TL-S--you just won't get excellent gas mileage compared with if you had used 5w-20; my dealer put it in my car when I was taking advantage of the free oil changes. Surely the dealer wouldn't screw itself up by using 10w-30 if indeed the only oil weight to use is 5w-20, no?

rozello

It wouldn't be the first time I encountered a mechanic or dealer that didn't know what they were doing. Besides the dealer isn't screwing himself, he's screwing you.

So I guess the reason for you to put the incorrect oil weight in your car is that it has to be free. That's not a reason. That's being cheap.

Southbound

rozello,

The reason to put 5w30 oil into the TLS instead of 5w20 is that IT PROTECTS BETTER! Plain and simple... especially at sustained highway driving during HOT summer weather. Winter in Minnesota might be another story... There have been plenty of discussions and plenty of official "white paper" discussion papers attached to this forum that state that the only reason Honda/Acura specs 5w20 is STRICTLY for EPA reasons, NOT for engine protection reasons. So if you're an ecology freak, (no flame intended) you should stick with the 5w20. But, another reason for 5w30 is that it is the only weight that you can EASILY get in a FULL SYNTHETIC. Unless you want to pay a lot and find a source for amsoil or redline... And that sounds like overkill for you. Mobil 1 Supersyn (or any synthetic for that matter)5W30 will protect your LONG TERM engine wear BETTER than the 5w20 CONVENTIONAL oil. ALSO with the synthetic 5w30, you can go longer between oil change intervals, so the cost is really not a huge factor.

I'm sure that ANY oil (conventional to synthetic) 5w20-10w30 would be just fine for the engine, UNLESS you drive or RACE in EXTREME conditions and don't stay on top of the oil changes. If you want to use the factory specified 5w20 conventional oil sold at the dealer for twice the price... feel free. That is surely your right, and there is NOTHING wrong with that. However, try to refrain from flaming others here when you ask for their opinions and you don't like the fact that they recommend something other than the factory manual does. OTHERWISE, what is the point of your questions if your mind is already made up?

Thanks for understanding... It all comes down to a matter of "pride in your ride" It's a personal decision that makes you feel good about your car. It's just like the polish or wax choice that you make. While most anthing is adequate, it comes down to what makes you feel really good about your commitment to your cars maintenance and appearance. Granted, a lot of people probably go to overkill extremes just to "feel good" about their special car. I certainly didn't pay $32K for my car to put kmart products on the paint and 87 octane in the tank, etc. So that goes for oil as well. It's your comfort/pride of ownership decision that counts in the end.

Good luck! I didn't mean for my post to sound scolding either, I hope you don't take it that way.

PEACE!

tdoh

rozello--why wouldn't the dealer be screwing himself if it turns out he knew that he was supposed to use 5w-20 but instead chose to put 5w-30? Sure I may be screwed, but it's not like I'll get nothing out of it if such were the case--I still have the receipts from the dealer. And how does taking advantage of free oil changes and winding up using the "incorrect" weight because of it--as you put it--make me cheap? If it weren't for the free oil change card my dealer gave me at the time I bought my car, I would have done the changes myself, using 5w-30 since during my first few oil changes (after the two freebies from the dealer) no store in my area--let alone the dealership--carried 5w-20--this was back in 2001; do a search in this forum--you'll find that I wasn't the only one who had trouble finding 5w-20 back then.

I have nothing against people going strictly by what the manufacturer recommends; however, you should have anecdotal evidence to back up your criticism that those of us who aren't doing so are clueless and are just asking for trouble by not following manufacturer guidelines. If you were commenting so as to be helpful, then great--however, if your gonna say stuff like calling me "cheap"...it would be better if you didn't help at all.

Oh yeah--on page 224 of the 2002 TL owner's manual it states:

"If 5w-20 oil is not available, a 5w-30 oil may be used. However, it should be replaced with 5w-20 at the next oil change."

Note the above says "should"--not "must", or "has to", or "or else (put something bad here)"; nowhere does it say that 5w-30 can't be used at all. FWIW--the manual states that 5w-20 is "formulated" (per Acura) for year-round protection (which I'm sure 5w-30, especially if synthetic, can easily offer), improve cold-weather starting (more or less a non-issue for those of us living in warmer climes, no?), and to help your engine use less fuel (so we lose perhaps at most 1 mpg by using 5w-30 instead--an acceptable downside by doing so). I don't see anything that says that using 5w-30 (or any oil weight, for that matter--but I reckon most folks won't go running out and putting 20w-50 into their TL) will do something like blow up your engine or eventually render it inoperable. Still think those of us who are using 5w-30 are asking for trouble, or are being "cheap"?

Other than that, I hope your car doesn't give you any problems, long or short-term.

Southbound

DITTO tdoh!

Since rozello has only made 10 posts, we should give him some slack as a newbie. BUT by the same token, he should learn what the comaradarie of this board is all about. WE ALL disagree from time to time... but our goal is to remain civil and pass along our own experiences and expertise.

It's called SYNERGY, rozello... You are welcome as a newcomer to this board and I hope you can become a vital part of the great knowledge base here. Good luck with your car, no matter how you treat it.

MrDuck

Just passed 7500 miles. . .after much reading and talking
to others went to Amsoil Filter and Amsoil 5-30 oil.

Dealer subtracted $35 from the 7500k warranty work, I installed
the Amsoil package for just over $49--so net out cost was
under $15. Good value!

The 5-20 / 5-30 debate will continue for ages. Even the Acura
hotline tells you to check the oil cap under the hood to see which
one is installed in your car. They also gave me all the 'corporate-
speak' on why you should stay with what is factory installed.

Go to www.amsoil.com to read lots more about it if you'd
like (and thanks to those on this list who sent me there).

I went with the 5-30 because it is 100% synthetic. The Amsoil
5-20 is a blend (70 /30) and does not last as long. I believe
that Mobil 1 is also a blend. 25k milesvs 12k on blend--although they recommend you change the filter at 12.5.

Interesting topic, and Acura only wants to talk about what
they sell--Honda filters and local dealers oil--but we all
know that already--don't we!
MrDuck

vperkins2

Ding, ding. Back to your neutral corners, boys!

I'm gonna have to stick up for Rozello, gents. I had similar questions when I first bought my TL-S. I wanted *factual* reasons for ignoring the type of oil specified in my owners' manual. I even questioned my dealership at my first oil change when they told me that they'd just put in 10w-30 instead of the specified 5w-20. It wasn't until Fla-TLS responded that actual *facts* were given. Up to that point it seemed that folks were simply saying what they used and when they changed their oil.

And Tdoh, rozello had a point when he mentioned that you took the wrong weight oil simply because it was free. LOL I know that's not true (and that it irked you to hear that!) and I'll bet that if you had asked, the truth was more along the lines of -- they used 10w-30 because they didn't carry 5w-20 (at least Niello Acura in Sacramento didn't when I had my oil changed).

Heh, heh, heh... rozello's logic was sound... his replies were simply misunderstood. He could have asked you why you didn't fight for the proper 5w-20 oil. Then you'd have had a much friendlier response!

My lame $.02,

V.

NSXDreamer

:devil: :devil: I say the truth is the 10W-30 is cheaper to the dealer since they probably & have those in Barrels, but the 5W-20 probably only in cans and bottles and since they are new they are more expensive... Business is Business...

I in fact bought six bottles of Amsoil last week, and I believed i paid around$5 a bottle and they are full snythetic (If they're not there's no way I'll pay that much for that) Also, I'm pretty sure the Mobil 1 isn't a blend, you can see the link I posted above... Mobil 1 had to be snythetic, if not it won't called "Mobil 1"

rozello

Thanks Vperkins2

I have been frustrated getting a straight answer for my question. FLA-TLS was the only one to give an opinion based on fact. You really hit the nail on the head. I don't know if people haven't been reading my posts or they don't understand what they are reading! Mushu talks about his Chevy. What does that have to do with a question on an acura forum?

Mush also called me stupid but no one criticzed him. But I get upbraided for using the word cheap. I guess it is OK to be stupid but not cheap.

Tdoh quotes the owner's manual. "If 5w-20 oil is not available, a 5w-30 oil may be used. However, it should be replaced with 5w-20 at the next oil change." It doesn't say to leave the incorrect oil weight in the engine!!! It says to change it back at the next oil change.


The 5w is not so much for cold weather driving. It is more for starting the engine the first time after it has been sitting awhile. The engine is cold (even in Death Valley). If the the oil is too thick, it won't get to all the moving parts qucikly enough in the initial critical first few minutes. This where the most wear can occur in a normally functioning engine.

I got this info from the dealer at a new owners orientation. They reiterated the fact to use 5w-20.

yield2s

you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!

tdoh

Vincent--it's 5w-30, not 10w-30--I don't recall mentioning anything about 10-weight oil. If you're gonna give your two cents worth, make sure it's actually worth two cents! j/k And FWIW--I did ask Pleasanton Acura about why they weren't using 5w-20 in their oil changes and they basically told me that they didn't have any 20-weight (remember, 20-weight wasn't exactly available at your neighborhood Kragens/AutoZone/etc. at that time) and that 5w-30 wouldn't damage the engine.

rozello--I understand the concept of using a lower weight such as 5w for ease of starting an engine in colder climes, hence the use of 5w-20; however, wouldn't a 5w-30 be just as suitable since it is also a 5w? It may not make the car as fuel-efficient as one that uses 5w-20 but that is a small price I am willing to accept as a trade-off for higher viscosity at higher rpms.

You also quoted:
Yes, it does say to change it back at the next oil change--well, that would mean that the "incorrect" weight could remain in the engine for up to 7500 miles, right? Wouldn't you think that some damage might occur during that time by using the "incorrect" weight? If it's not good to use anything other than 5w-20, why doesn't the manual say something like "replace with 5w-20 as soon as possible or else damage will occur"? Nowhere does it say in the manual that using 5w-30 (or any other weight, IIRC--however, I doubt anyone will be dumping 10w-40 or 20w-50 oil into their TL engines anytime soon) will void your warranty, so I really don't think that those of us using 5w-30 are asking for trouble.

Perhaps I may very well use 5w-20 sometime in the near future; like I said, I have no problem with someone wanting to go by exactly what is stated in the manual. On the other hand, I do have a small problem with someone insinuating that if I don't do so, I must be clueless, stupid, or heaven forbid--cheap.

vperkins2

Sorry bro! I screwed up there! But hopefully my point was made in spite of the error.


Now that's more like it! This little paragraph explains nicely why you accepted the "wrong" oil way back when. However, its omission could falsely lead the reader to conclude you were "very frugal with every dime."

I guess I'm gonna have to start wearing flame-retardant clothing around here! :p

Later,

V.

rkeswani

wait isn't the first oil change supposed to be at 3500? Which would make the second at 11,000 (3500+7500). Isn't that how it goes?
My dealer told me first change at 3500 then every 7500 thereafter.

vsop TL-S

Damn...I use Castrol 5w-30 with a fram filter...but I change my oil almost every 1.5 months(time which I can put 3000 miles on my car). I mean in one year I put 33,000 miles on my car and still counting...so I do drive a lot, so no point in using the good stuff for me because it all goes out too quick anyways, but hell, Castrol is a good motor oil. I'll be fine.

mushutofu

First oil change should preferably be aout 1200-1500 miles. Right after you break in the car. After that 3000 miles is a good time interval depending on how hard you drive your vehicle. With synthetic you could stretch that out a little further.

VSOP...your conjecture is flawed...because you are driving so much you should be using the correct and good oil.