Transmission Fluid Flush & Questions - Too Much Fluid?
10-09-2016, 05:31 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Transmission Fluid Flush & Questions - Too Much Fluid?
Hey Guys,
About 8 months ago, I took the 03 TL-S in for the airbag recall. The dealership then told me I had a rear main seal leak and it was leaking transmission fluid (which may be odd, since most rear main seal leaks leak oil, no?). Anyways, given the cost quoted to fix this ($1600 from the dealership but with 25% off as a "favor" to me or about $1k from another shop) I decided, "you know what, I'll just keep an eye on the fluids".
I checked the transmission dipstick then and the level was like below the lower dot and the fluid was also super black. So, I decided to pour in 3 quarts worth of DW-1 through the dipstick. However, when I checked the fluid level afterward (and now), it's waayyy above the higher dot. It's been this way for a number of months.
This was of course before I really discovered this forum. Now that I have, I'm thinking it's probably best to do a flush and also that too much fluid is a bad thing. The recommended method is the 3x3, correct? Does it matter if my mileage is higher or lower (135k)? I read of some people doing the 3 flushes over months, rather than in one day with just 10 minute drive in-between. Also, given that there is so much in there right now (according to the dipstick), should I just try to drain 3 quarts first?
Appreciate any advice.
About 8 months ago, I took the 03 TL-S in for the airbag recall. The dealership then told me I had a rear main seal leak and it was leaking transmission fluid (which may be odd, since most rear main seal leaks leak oil, no?). Anyways, given the cost quoted to fix this ($1600 from the dealership but with 25% off as a "favor" to me or about $1k from another shop) I decided, "you know what, I'll just keep an eye on the fluids".
I checked the transmission dipstick then and the level was like below the lower dot and the fluid was also super black. So, I decided to pour in 3 quarts worth of DW-1 through the dipstick. However, when I checked the fluid level afterward (and now), it's waayyy above the higher dot. It's been this way for a number of months.
This was of course before I really discovered this forum. Now that I have, I'm thinking it's probably best to do a flush and also that too much fluid is a bad thing. The recommended method is the 3x3, correct? Does it matter if my mileage is higher or lower (135k)? I read of some people doing the 3 flushes over months, rather than in one day with just 10 minute drive in-between. Also, given that there is so much in there right now (according to the dipstick), should I just try to drain 3 quarts first?
Appreciate any advice.
10-09-2016, 06:40 PM
#2
You need to get rid of the extra fluid. Three quarts is way too much is there is any showing on the dipstick.
I would drain it now and add three quarts of Acura/Honda fluid. When you drain it you will get the standard three quarts plus whatever extra is in there. Then add three more quarts to get it back up to normal.
It's up to you if you do all 3 drains and fills now or over time. If the fluid is black I would do all three now with short drives between the changes.
BTW don't add through the dipstick. There is a fill plug that's easy to get to or a jet kit which is almost as easy to remove to add fluid.
Check the how to section here for a how to.
I would drain it now and add three quarts of Acura/Honda fluid. When you drain it you will get the standard three quarts plus whatever extra is in there. Then add three more quarts to get it back up to normal.
It's up to you if you do all 3 drains and fills now or over time. If the fluid is black I would do all three now with short drives between the changes.
BTW don't add through the dipstick. There is a fill plug that's easy to get to or a jet kit which is almost as easy to remove to add fluid.
Check the how to section here for a how to.
10-09-2016, 06:45 PM
#3
Racer
Hey Guys,
About 8 months ago, I took the 03 TL-S in for the airbag recall. The dealership then told me I had a rear main seal leak and it was leaking transmission fluid (which may be odd, since most rear main seal leaks leak oil, no?). Anyways, given the cost quoted to fix this ($1600 from the dealership but with 25% off as a "favor" to me or about $1k from another shop) I decided, "you know what, I'll just keep an eye on the fluids".
I checked the transmission dipstick then and the level was like below the lower dot and the fluid was also super black. So, I decided to pour in 3 quarts worth of DW-1 through the dipstick. However, when I checked the fluid level afterward (and now), it's waayyy above the higher dot. It's been this way for a number of months.
This was of course before I really discovered this forum. Now that I have, I'm thinking it's probably best to do a flush and also that too much fluid is a bad thing. The recommended method is the 3x3, correct? Does it matter if my mileage is higher or lower (135k)? I read of some people doing the 3 flushes over months, rather than in one day with just 10 minute drive in-between. Also, given that there is so much in there right now (according to the dipstick), should I just try to drain 3 quarts first?
Appreciate any advice.
About 8 months ago, I took the 03 TL-S in for the airbag recall. The dealership then told me I had a rear main seal leak and it was leaking transmission fluid (which may be odd, since most rear main seal leaks leak oil, no?). Anyways, given the cost quoted to fix this ($1600 from the dealership but with 25% off as a "favor" to me or about $1k from another shop) I decided, "you know what, I'll just keep an eye on the fluids".
I checked the transmission dipstick then and the level was like below the lower dot and the fluid was also super black. So, I decided to pour in 3 quarts worth of DW-1 through the dipstick. However, when I checked the fluid level afterward (and now), it's waayyy above the higher dot. It's been this way for a number of months.
This was of course before I really discovered this forum. Now that I have, I'm thinking it's probably best to do a flush and also that too much fluid is a bad thing. The recommended method is the 3x3, correct? Does it matter if my mileage is higher or lower (135k)? I read of some people doing the 3 flushes over months, rather than in one day with just 10 minute drive in-between. Also, given that there is so much in there right now (according to the dipstick), should I just try to drain 3 quarts first?
Appreciate any advice.
How were you checking the fluid? Checking ATF in a Honda isn't like any other car. In a Honda, the vehicle have has to be off and on a level surface, with the oil up to operating temperature. Pouring in 3 quarts is way too much if the dip stick was reading a level.
Changing the ATF is always a roll of the dice. Rule of thumb is change it every 30,000 miles (if it's as black as you say it is I'm guessing it's probably the original ATF from the factory- way past due). As per standard operation, every automatic transmission slips during shifts. Over the life of the transmission, years of slipping deposits clutch material into the transmission and its fluid. (This is why the drain plug has a magnet on it) Over time, the fluid properties change (it becomes more dense). This dense fluid wears out seals and clearances inside of the transmission. Since an A/T is dependent on hydraulic pressure, new (less dense) fluid runs right past these worn out seals, resulting in complete A/T failure.
That having been said it's a risk. That's really the best answer there is.
As for the interval for a complete 3x3 (it's a drain and fill, not a flush) it doesn't particularly matter that much though I think months between each 1x3 might be excessive if you're wanting to get the majority of the fluid out. When I did mine in 2013 I did it all in 2 days. I was fine for 20k miles before transmission failure.
10-10-2016, 12:51 PM
#4
Intermediate
Thread Starter
You need to get rid of the extra fluid. Three quarts is way too much is there is any showing on the dipstick.
I would drain it now and add three quarts of Acura/Honda fluid. When you drain it you will get the standard three quarts plus whatever extra is in there. Then add three more quarts to get it back up to normal.
It's up to you if you do all 3 drains and fills now or over time. If the fluid is black I would do all three now with short drives between the changes.
BTW don't add through the dipstick. There is a fill plug that's easy to get to or a jet kit which is almost as easy to remove to add fluid.
Check the how to section here for a how to.
I would drain it now and add three quarts of Acura/Honda fluid. When you drain it you will get the standard three quarts plus whatever extra is in there. Then add three more quarts to get it back up to normal.
It's up to you if you do all 3 drains and fills now or over time. If the fluid is black I would do all three now with short drives between the changes.
BTW don't add through the dipstick. There is a fill plug that's easy to get to or a jet kit which is almost as easy to remove to add fluid.
Check the how to section here for a how to.
But like I said, I did that before getting on this forum. Now I know better: to use the bolt/hole labeled "ATF" and to make sure I can open that before it before draining.
10-10-2016, 01:01 PM
#5
Intermediate
Thread Starter
The rear main seal doesn't leak transmission fluid, as it's a seal for the crank case. On the other side is the ATF pump, which might be leaking.
How were you checking the fluid? Checking ATF in a Honda isn't like any other car. In a Honda, the vehicle have has to be off and on a level surface, with the oil up to operating temperature. Pouring in 3 quarts is way too much if the dip stick was reading a level.
Changing the ATF is always a roll of the dice. Rule of thumb is change it every 30,000 miles (if it's as black as you say it is I'm guessing it's probably the original ATF from the factory- way past due). As per standard operation, every automatic transmission slips during shifts. Over the life of the transmission, years of slipping deposits clutch material into the transmission and its fluid. (This is why the drain plug has a magnet on it) Over time, the fluid properties change (it becomes more dense). This dense fluid wears out seals and clearances inside of the transmission. Since an A/T is dependent on hydraulic pressure, new (less dense) fluid runs right past these worn out seals, resulting in complete A/T failure.
That having been said it's a risk. That's really the best answer there is.
As for the interval for a complete 3x3 (it's a drain and fill, not a flush) it doesn't particularly matter that much though I think months between each 1x3 might be excessive if you're wanting to get the majority of the fluid out. When I did mine in 2013 I did it all in 2 days. I was fine for 20k miles before transmission failure.
How were you checking the fluid? Checking ATF in a Honda isn't like any other car. In a Honda, the vehicle have has to be off and on a level surface, with the oil up to operating temperature. Pouring in 3 quarts is way too much if the dip stick was reading a level.
Changing the ATF is always a roll of the dice. Rule of thumb is change it every 30,000 miles (if it's as black as you say it is I'm guessing it's probably the original ATF from the factory- way past due). As per standard operation, every automatic transmission slips during shifts. Over the life of the transmission, years of slipping deposits clutch material into the transmission and its fluid. (This is why the drain plug has a magnet on it) Over time, the fluid properties change (it becomes more dense). This dense fluid wears out seals and clearances inside of the transmission. Since an A/T is dependent on hydraulic pressure, new (less dense) fluid runs right past these worn out seals, resulting in complete A/T failure.
That having been said it's a risk. That's really the best answer there is.
As for the interval for a complete 3x3 (it's a drain and fill, not a flush) it doesn't particularly matter that much though I think months between each 1x3 might be excessive if you're wanting to get the majority of the fluid out. When I did mine in 2013 I did it all in 2 days. I was fine for 20k miles before transmission failure.
After adding 3 quarts, I checked it the same way. And now, it's like way up above the higher dot. Is it possible there's fluid stuck to the dipstick sleeve?
So, you're saying there's a risk?
Well, now I am a bit scared. I want to say the ATF has been drained and filled out at some point, but I can't remember. It was definitely not a DIY, but maybe one of the times I took it in. I could probably look through the old records.
10-10-2016, 02:26 PM
#6
Racer
I checked it a few times. First, it was by driving home from work (5 miles, local) and checking it... given that my driveway isn't flat, I knew it could be a bit off. So, I then checked it after driving to work and parking in the level garage. Both showed the mark below the lower dot.
After adding 3 quarts, I checked it the same way. And now, it's like way up above the higher dot. Is it possible there's fluid stuck to the dipstick sleeve?
So, you're saying there's a risk? Well, now I am a bit scared. I want to say the ATF has been drained and filled out at some point, but I can't remember. It was definitely not a DIY, but maybe one of the times I took it in. I could probably look through the old records.
After adding 3 quarts, I checked it the same way. And now, it's like way up above the higher dot. Is it possible there's fluid stuck to the dipstick sleeve?
So, you're saying there's a risk?
Well, now I am a bit scared. I want to say the ATF has been drained and filled out at some point, but I can't remember. It was definitely not a DIY, but maybe one of the times I took it in. I could probably look through the old records.It's always a risk but if it is any consolation, let me give you a bit of history with the TL I had:
2005: Transmission failure @ 90k miles - Transmission replaced at Acura under warranty
2012: I buy the car with 201k miles on the odometer
2013: Transmission fluid was completely black. Trans was completely fine but I was nervous so I did a 3x3 fluid change. Shift quality improved dramatically
2015: Transmission failure (run of the mill- NOT because the fluid was changed)
Changing the fluid did wonders for my transmission. It didn't save it from the generic failure each and every unit will suffer from eventually, but it prolonged its life at the very least. The average life for one of these transmissions, as per this website and other sources online, is ~ 80k - 100k miles. (Not an official number, but it seems to be the life span before people complain of failure) You'll of course find people who have 250k on the original trans and its still going strong, just as you'll find people who had trans failure after 30k miles.
I couldn't find any record of the transmission fluid being changed since the unit was replaced in 2005. I bought the car from the original owner and it was always serviced at Crown Acura of Richmond. I figure the ATF in there was the original when it was replaced. 110k miles on that fluid and mine was fine.
Chances are yours will be fine too, but as stated it is a risk. Some on the board will tell you leave it be, others will swear by changing it. I lean toward the latter because over time the anti-slip agents wear out in the fluid, so replacing some fluid (1x3) is better than changing none.
I say go for it: do a 1x3 and take it through all of the gears. Pay close attention to the shifts and how the transmission feels. If you like the results, do this again two more times.
Last edited by Yikes; 10-10-2016 at 02:32 PM.
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