boczo777

hello

i'm newbie on this forum and never had acura before,

i ourchased 2003 TL type S like 2 weeks ago with 66 000 miles on it

i was advised to make a tranny flush, my friend got the shop and proper machine but the thing is i dont really know whta kind of fluid should i chose, should i go straight to acura dealer??

Phesto

honda ATF or amsoil.................I would do a couple of drain and fills though at least 6 qts,I read that it is not good to do a tranny flush on our cars. And the fluid with come out looking like motor oil,this is normal also.Good Luck

BLADE RUNNER

I would leave your tranny alone. Acura recommends drain and fill only at prescribed intervals. I have never seen where a transmission flush benefits anyone other than the person performing the service.

boczo777

so rite now im really confused,

when i was going through the forum i noticed that im not the only one having a problem with the tranny, after 30-50minutes of drive the transmission is sleeping from 2 to 3rd gear, the revs go up, nothing happens and suddenly booom, it grips, check engine, vcd gauge and D-5 are flashing...... i cant prove nothing to the dealer couse never happened when he drives:-((((

i thought this might help....

Phesto

this doesn't sound good if you are experiencing these problems............I'd take it to a dealer as soon as possible.The dealer should see the SRS and CEL and check the codes.

boczo777

yeah but it happenes only after some time, for expample when i drive more aggressive or stuck in traffic for a while, even after it cools down for like 15 minutes nothong is flashing and it switches smooth

i dont get this and its only from 2nd to 3rd

BLADE RUNNER

I agree -- my understanding is that the codes are stored historically, meaning that there is a record of the problem in storage in the ECU.

If the dealer is uncooperative, find another dealer that will work with you on this problem.

SodaLuvr

Given the symptoms, have the vehicle checked by the dealership for transmission issues. Check to see if your VIN # falls within the range for elegibility for the extended transmission warranty.

60,000 miles is a good time to drain/fill the fluid. A flush isn't mandatory, nor is a multiple drain/fill, drain/fill once with 3 quarts of Amsoil ATF or Genuine Honda ATF-Z1. One drain/fill every 60,000 miles or so is all that it takes to restore the dynamic friction properties and renew the additive package. Ignore the color and the odor of the fluid, it is entirely irrelevant with Honda ATF-Z1.

If you are really insistent on changing out more of the fluid, do another drain/fill 3K from now on, and a third one another 3K after the second drain/fill. This is totally unnecessary, however, and should only be done if you're paranoid.

fsttyms1

Those are classic symptoms of the tranny failing.id get it in as soon as possible

boczo777

thank you for ur answers guys, one more question though,

is it gonna b ok if i drain/fill the fluid?? my friend got 2004 maxima and it says, u have to use this special circulation machine to change tranny oil or the air can stuck in the channels and the tranny will never work again

MikePA

Drain and refill. Drain and refill. Drain and refill. (don't add more fluid than what drains out)

What your friend does on his Maxima is irrelevant.

fsttyms1

Drain, fill, drive x3 is the way to do it on the TL

SodaLuvr

I've learned that once is enough...more than that is absolutely pointless due to deminishing returns.

One drain/fill is all it takes to restore the correct dynamic friction properties and renew the additive pack...

MikePA

How have you learned this?

SodaLuvr

I was told by a chemist, as well as an OEM engineer that replacing 40-45% of the total fluid volume will restore the correct dynamic friction properties.

After all, with the first drain/fill removing between 40-45% of the fluid volume, the second and third drain/fills will remove only 15-20% each time, which is really a waste of fluid, and brings you few benefits.

For example, I know of someone in Austin whose parents have an 02 Accord. It had 140K before they did a drain/fill (one) with Genuine ATF-Z1, the slightly harsh shifting was immediately cured, and the shifting was equal to new.

RickRoush03

1. according to the manual, the tranny doesn't need to be changed until past 100k

2. the tranny will most likely crap out before you need to change the fluid

3. changing the fluid, even every day, won't do you a bit of good to save the tranny

MikePA

According to the '99 manual, this is wrong information.

Normal conditions - 90,000 miles
Severe conditions - 30,000 miles

SodaLuvr

I thought it was 120K for normal service, and 60K for severe service for the first service, then 1/2 the interval thereafter.

Honda recommends this schedule for the Pilot, while the Saturn VUE V6, which share the same engine transmission, is recommended to have a change every 100K under normal driving, and 50K if you tow, with no shortened service interval after the first.

fla-tls

I love how they tell you to delay changing the fluid until you're out of warranty...

I've done many trannys that has just gotten their first recommended "flush" at 100k.

RickRoush03

1. When i give info, its not coming from my ass and i don't just make it up

2. We are talking about a 2003 car here with a 5 speed not a 99 with a 4 speed

3. I am correct on my information for the tranny fluid change, its actually 120k, but i put "past 100k" b/c i couldn't remember if it was 110 or 120k. I just went to my car, 2002 TL-S and verified

SodaLuvr

1) I would never do a transmission "flush" if the transmission was due at 100K for its first fluid change. I would drop the pan, change the filter, clean the magnets on the pan, and refill with fresh fluid. All of the problems occur when people flush their transmissions at high mileage without changing the filter.

2) I know of someone with a '97 Olds Van with the 4T65E unit. 114,000 miles on the original Dex III fluid. He pulled the pan, changed the filters, and refilled. Then he had the transmission "purged" with new fluid, to remove as much of the old fluid as possible. The shop used Valvoline Dex IIIG.

After only 41,000 miles at 155,000 miles, the transmission developed a shudder as the dynamic friction properties of the Valvoline fluid were gone. (Showing the lameness of the Valvoline fluid). He pumped out 6 quarts from the dipstick tube, and refilled with the Aamco Mercon-V/Dexron-IIIH blend produced by ExxonMobil, and repeated this two more times over the course of several weeks.

He replaced approximately 90% of the fluid by doing this. After only the first extract/refill, the shudder was already noticeably improved, and after the third, shifting was perfect and there was no shudder. The van now has 170,000 miles and the transmission shifts fine.

In other words, I'm not trying to knock your credbility, but my point is that there are many transmission that do not receive their first service until 100K, and they have absolutely no problems. The risk of having problems greatly increases when one has a "flush" done without changing the filter. At about 100K, combined with the new fluid, the filter would be nearly "full" of debris, and would starve the transmission of fluid if the filter was clogged. Remember that transmission pan filters have no bypass valve unlike full-flow oil filters.

Again, if you're doing a transmission fluid change on a high mileage unit, the most important part is to drop the pan and change the filter. Whether or not you replace all of the fluid is really a non-issue. Changing the filter is more important than changing all of the fluid.

Of course, none of this really applies to Hondas, as they do not have a serviceable filter. By design, Honda transmissions produce very little clutch shavings, and they have the magnetic drain plug. If I was servicing a Honda w/100K, I would drain/fill three quarts and be done with it, and perhaps repeat it a second time after a few hundred or few thousand miles if I was anal.

Mike

ou sig

I agree - I do have a thought/question though. My father in law has a 89 Chevy truck (full size with the 350 motor). he has 190k miles on it and hasnt touched the transmission fluid (he got it brand new) and it shifts just fine under all conditions....wonder how that is?

SodaLuvr

Your call, really.

If I were to change it, I would drop the pan, change the filter, and refill with new fluid.

If you have a fluid extractor, after a few hundred miles, pump out the contents of the pan again. Do about 2-3 pump/refill sessions.

If all is well, after a few thousand miles, pull the pan and change the filter again.

Use conventional Dexron-IIIH/Mercon or Dexron-VI only.

TunedTL

Micheal, is there a transmission pan and filter for the TL?

SodaLuvr

There is no user serviceable transmission pan/filter on the TL. There is only a magnetic drain plug for servicing.

Phesto

Michael just dropped some serious knowledge in this thread,you'd be well off to take his advice....he is the local oil expert afterall!

SodaLuvr

Nah, I'm just providing job security for my buddy fla-tls.

fla-tls

It's not just filters that clog. Cooler lines also clog. Many cooler lines are not just open lines as many might think. Many have an star-like insert that goes in them to force the fluid to the outer surface of the cooling tube. These inserts end up creating small passages in the lines that WILL clog on some cars.

I agree with you about conventional changes being safe - even with high mileage transmissions (that are not already starting to fail). I just have never seen the need for a "flush" on ANY transmission. I think transmission flushes are nothing more than a gimmick. Transmission fluid is nothing like motor oil, where you have blow-by and contaminants getting into the fluid creating acids, etc. It simply fluid that heats up, wears, and cools down. You don't have to change all of transmission fluid every time for the service to be effective. For the most part, you just have to replenish the wearing additive package.

Trust me - I more agree with you than disagree. A simple, single, drain & fill with a new filter every 30k miles even with non-synthetic fluid will be more than enough for most cars. It's not hard, and certainly doesn't cost that much.

fla-tls

I own a transmission shop that repaired over 400 transmissions last year. We work on just about every make and model available in the US from Isuzu box trucks to Porsches.

I don't need to hear your opinion on who I should take seriously.

fla-tls

That's not uncommon on older/simpler units.

We have a 2002 Honda civic in the shop right now with less than 50k miles. The torque converter is coming apart and throwing metal all through the unit. The internal strainer in the unit clogged causing the hydraulic pressure to drop and shifting to become erratic.

Last week we had a 2003 Envoy with less than 50k miles. It had a defective drum (from the factory) that would not hold hydraulic pressure which caused major slipping in reverse. It was a casting problem causing the drum seal to leak.

Most trannys are built well. Some are not.

Phesto

I posted that to the thread starter BOCZO777................I dont make myself out to be anything,least of all serious over internet crap....sorry to bother you

SodaLuvr

Fla-tls has far more field experience than I do, as he owns and operates a well-known transmission shop that sees many cars. I admire and respect his comments, knowledge, and actual day-to-day field experience with the transmission problems he sees.

OTOH, I sit behind a computer all day and sometimes research some of these problems that transmissions have, talk with chemists and fluid experts, and try to help others when it is within my reach as part of my hobby. Still, I lack the field experience that he has so I certainly respect his comments and take them seriously. For example, his mention of clogged cooler lines prompts me to remove the cooler lines on higher mileage transmissions, as part of a fluid/filter change, to check for blockage and clean/replace them if necessary.

What a person behind a desk may see and another person in the field may see often turns out to be two different views. A good example of this would be GM’s DexCool. On paper, the product is supposed to work fine. Of course, it was assumed by the engineers that the system would stay full and mechanically sound at all times. As it turned out, drivers did not take the requirement that the system staying full, very seriously. Low fluid levels, combined with slight leaks (causing pressure drops and preventing the system from operating properly) caused massive sludge buildup problems in the system. The consumer though, was not entirely at fault at the same time; prior high silicate coolants never had this problem, at least to the same extent, as DexCool seemed extraordinarily sensitive to slightly low levels and the slightest bit of air intrusion. In other words, how something is suppose to work is not how something always turns out to work.

I used the DexCool example as it related to the transmission service intervals. Beginning in ’96, GM began recommending 100K service intervals on transmissions with the launch of Dexron-III. The fluid, Dexron-III, up until 2004, was built from Group I base oils and an additive package that rarely lasts 100K without severe fluid oxidation and/or shudder problems due to poor dynamic friction retention. I did not agree with following such a longer service interval on such an under built fluid.

Fast forward to 2004, with the launch of Dexron-IIIH, the fluid was being built from Group II base oils and a significantly improved additive package. Dynamic Friction retention was greatly improved, and 100K seems achievable in most passenger cars.

Thus, I still believe that most of the fluid related problems fla-tls sees in his shop, if any, from clogged cooler lines and/or excessive sludge buildup are caused by older transmission fluids that are run too long. The newer cars equipped with the fluids I listed below, should not have fluid-related problems if the fluid has not been run longer than 60,000 miles under normal service.

The following fluids, I personally believe, are capable of going 60,000 miles before a conventional transmission service (pan drop and filter change), without serious buildup, durability, or shudder problems:

1) GM Dexron-IIIH
2) GM Dexron-VI
3) Ford Mercon-V
4) Honda ATF-Z1
5) Toyota T-IV
6) Chrysler ATF+4
7) Hyundai/Kia/Mitsubishi SP-III

(Only applies to actual approved fluids of these types. Dexron and Lubegard mixes do not count)

While I still believe that all of these fluids are capable of going 60,000 miles before the first fluid change, I never condemn practicing a more conservative service interval. A pan drop, filter change, magnet cleaning, and refill, every 30,000 miles, is still a good form of preventive maintenance in my opinion, especially for the Honda transmissions that lack a serviceable filter, and any trucks/suvs, especially ones with 4-wheel-drive. In my book, changing the transmission fluid more frequently than every 30,000 miles (or 20,000 miles under towing), is a waste of fluid and entirely unneeded.

Again, I thank fla-tls for his field experience and comments, as they are always valued, and I apologize in advance if I offended anyone.

Mike

fla-tls

I wasn't offended by anything written in this thread. I'm sorry if it came across any other way.

Mike, as far as general cooler lines go... It's not the lines that can clog, it's the cooler itself. Cooler designs vary by make and model. Some are more prone to clogging than others. In the case of the Lincoln Continental, it used an air/oil cooler with that star-shaped metal piece in the tube in front of the AC condenser. It was a combination tranny/power steering cooler. We ended up adding a supplimental tranny cooler to the vehicle, because the tranny cooler simply couldn't be flushed adequately.

In another design... In a Jeep Cherokee the cooler is also an air/oil cooler that has a heat activated checkball as a bypass. If it is not flushed properly (using 140 F transmission fluid that is pulsated through the cooler) it will not be cleaned because the fluid will never actually go through the cooler.

Most late model Fords with coolant/oil (radiator) coolers are now recommending a radiator replacement instead of a cooler flush with a tranny is overhauled. Their prior advise was to use a turbo tank (the 140 F pulsating oil), but even that it proving to be problematic on newer vehicles.

I agree with you that - in a properly working transmission - you can safely go 60k miles in between changes without issue for "normal" driving. Having said that, I also believe that there is no reason to ever flush a transmission - ANY transmission. More routine drain/fill and filter changes represent a lower shock to the system (you're not going from low/broken down detergent straight to high detergent fluid), replenish the additive package, and cost about the same in the long run.

If you change a smaller level of fluid more often, you'll never get to the point where you have significant buildup inside the unit. The smaller amount of buildup that is there will be washed by the higher detergent newer fluid on a more frequent basis and safely caught by the filter without issue. If you do this, you'll never have to worry about your cooler either because the contaminant levels never really spike.

Take care all!

fsttyms1

That is what happend on my last tranny failure. (what put me over the edge for the 6 speed swap)