tantrumichy

Has anyone every tried a tranny cooler on their car? I'm thinking about installing one to prevent my tranny from going...if so, does it work?

01tl4tl

see the many other threads- It will reduce the trans fluid temp which is good,
BUT its not going to solve the problem of low oil flow to 2nd-3rd gear clutch packs

even in the DIY if I recall !

our megamod fsttyms1 had a cooler on nearly all 5 !!! of his auto trans in 200,000 miles.
the 3 of them with it lasted the shortest!!

fsttyms1

The cooler wont prevent the trans from dying or make it last longer

acutee

I am happy with my tranny cooler. As said above, it is good for cooling. I am sure it does help to cool down the fluid and it does keep my engine cool as well, as less heat being transfered from the tranny case to the engine block. I can feel the tranny shifts better and it responses to the gas pedal quicker in a long drive, over 100deg outside, comparing to when I did not have the cooler, but that is just my feeling. One thing I know for sure, my engine is running cooler after I added the tranny cooler as my engine cooling fan runs less frequently in short trips.

fsttyms1

I dont know why your motor would be running cooler, it really has nothing to do with it. I saw no difference when i had mine, though i do know it did cool the trans fluid temp quite a bit, BUT that still doesnt help the problem of not enough fluid getting to the parts.

acutee

It was an unexpected result and I am not sure why its that way, but that was my observation before and after adding the tranny cooler. I am surprised too. When I first spot the fan ran after a short drive, and every day I got curious and wonder why the engine cooling fan runs after short drives. I paid attention to it every time I crank up the car. One day I added the tranny cooler and I didn't hear the fan ran anymore, then I thought the fan must have gone bad or so, better check before it does more damages. I tested it out and the fan is still good. From then on, I don't get the cooling fan running that often anymore. So, cooling is good for me with the tranny cooler. I even had blinking D5 and had the sensor replaced. I put the old sensor back and it still works without blinking.

fsttyms1

If any thing the fan should run more with it as it adds more heat to the radiator thus needing the fan to run more to cool it.

gav.man

I am thinking of getting one but not sure where to find one or how to install it. Any ideas?

All cars should have one. 220 degrees F. or more for a duation starts to kill the tranny from what I've read for other vehicles. My camaro has one, my Ford Ranger had one, it's insurance. From what I've been gathering from the threads, the oil flow passages on the 2nd gen get clogged from debris and lessen clutch hold on the 3rd gear. If we control the rate of wear with frequent fluid changes and keep the thing cool, we'll likely get more miles from them. Does this sound right?

I'll keep my eyes out for a cooler kit unless someone can recommend one.

Thanks

acutee

Here you go. I personally like this one, fits nicely. The hard part is to remove the 6" tube in the rear. Just be patient and you will get it out.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/184466/21

fsttyms1

Only it doesnt quite work that way. I changed the fluid every 8k miles, and had a cooler and it was the shortest life trans i had of the 5.

Any aftermarket cooler will work. Just head down to your local auto parts store.

YeuEmMaiMai

the TL/CL 5at is a design failure and that is why they croak. some people will tell you to use expensive fluid but that will not prevent the trans from dying as the fluid cannot correct the design flaws.

fsttyms1

This!

01tl4tl

wonder what cost reduction thinking led them to use old school motorcycle clutch disc in a car

totaledTL

If a live data scanner can read the trans. temp. (unsure if that info is available) it would be interesting to see how much, if any, cooler it runs.

tantrumichy

thanks for the great info, i'm just looking into as many things to prevent my tranny from failing. Doing very frequent tranny oil changes, gonna put a cooler in and I'm been very easy on the car. Anything else i can do to put it more on the safe line?

gav.man

Thanks for the link. Looks easy enough. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Does anyone have the statistics on the failure rate of these tranny's? I thinK from '99 to '03 there were @ 400,000 of these TL's made. is it 1 in 10 ? 1 in 5???? or 1 in 1 !!!

YeuEmMaiMai

acura claims failure rates inline with other manufacturers at about 5%

honda/acura used to be about 2.5%- well below the industry average

here are the TL production numbers to date

1999 56,566
2000 67,033
2001 69,484
2002 60,764
2003 56,770
2004 77,895
2005 78,218
2006 71,348
2007 58,545
2008 48,766
2009 33,620

total 679,009

gold2003tl (90)

^that 2% crap was for the oil jet recall about 2nd gear exploding right ???

fsttyms1

Yes, the Less than 2% was ONLY for the 2nd gear shaft failure, which to this day i still havent seen one on this forum.

YeuEmMaiMai

no that was their total failure rate (2.5%) before the latest 4at and their first 5at.

Acura stated that with their new transmissions the failure rate was 5% right in line with the other makers. (this is obviously BS imho)

fsttyms1

No, when the report came out when the Recall was first announced, the problem was stated at less than 2% and that was ONLY for the recall. No failure rates were announced for the 3rd gear problem that they were having at the same time.

crazyjkz

Just out of curiosity, if Honda/Acura use essentially the same basic 5-speed A/T design then why is it that you hear about most of the failures on the 2nd gen TL and CL? I haven't heard about any Honda/Acura 5-speed A/T problems and/or failures on the 2003 and up Honda Accord, or the RSX, RL, RDX, Honda Pilot, etc.

I have heard of similar 5AT issues and failures on the Honda Odyssey and the 1998-2002 Honda Accord as the 2nd gen TL/CL has, but what about all of the other Honda and Acura models that use essentially the same design of the 5-speed Hondamatic transmission? Unless they do have different designs and different variations of the 5AT then it doesn't make sense to me how our TLs and CLs have had tranny failures due to poor design of oil passages to 3rd gear clutchpack, yet a majority of the other Honda/Acura models that use the same basic design of the 5-speed A/T haven't been known to have problems or issues...

YeuEmMaiMai

anything outside of the RL (uses differnet trans) and the last gen Type S that uses a 5at is prone to suffer the same failure rates. you can do a search and see that yes, all of the other hondas that use it have abnorally high failure rates...

crazyjkz

Well I would hope that the RL would have a different(and hopefully a better) transmission considering the cost of the car and that it is suppose to be Acura's flagship model and all.

I'm not claiming to be an expert on the subject or anything but I have done a bit of research and it does appear that the 2nd gen TL and CL seem to have the higher number of 5AT transmission failures than other Hondas/Acuras that use the same basic transmission design such as the RSX, TSX, 2004-present Accord, RDX, Pilot. The only other Honda/Acura models that have been reported to have similar 5AT issues as the TL/CL are the Odyssey and the MDX.

I just think that there could be something more than meets the eye as to why the 2nd gen TL and CL seem to be singled out and seem to have higher reported transmission problems and/or failures when the Honda/Acura 5AT is essentially the same inherent design in all the other models that use it (with the exception being the RL and last gen TL Type-S).

I was checking out http://www.carcomplaints.com earlier and oddly enough their are very few reported transmission failures on the 2nd gen TLs, and their are HUGE amount of reported automatic transmission problems and failures on the 1998-2003 Honda Accords and the 1999-2003 Honda Odysseys.

* Does anyone have any specifics on exactly what Honda/Acura changed, improved, and/or redesigned on the February 2005 and up 5ATs? Because you can scroll through from one model year to another on the car you are researching on www.carcomplaints.com and there seems to be a MUCH lower amount of reports (hardly any at all) of transmission problems and failures on any Honda/Acura model from 2005-present that uses the 5AT when compared to the 2000-2004 model years.

crazyjkz

Oh and one other thing I was thinking, even though it is basically a known fact that a tranny cooler won't help the lack of oil flow to the 3rd gear clutchpack and any other lack of oil flow to critical transmission parts, wouldn't the tranny cooler AT LEAST help alleviate the excessive HEAT that is generated when the gears, clutchpacks, and other critical transmission parts are starved of oil flow? Then when the parts get excessively hot from oil starvation this would directly lead to higher than normal tranny fluid temperatures which would make things even worse, but the tranny cooler would also help alleviate the higher than normal fluid temperatures which could lead to thermal breakdown of the tranny fluid itself which could lead to even bigger problems.

So therefore is it possible that even though a tranny cooler would have no bearing on the lack of oil flow to 3rd gear clutchpacks and other important parts, could it at least "indirectly" help matters by reducing the excessive heat and higher than normal ATF fluid temperatures that are directly caused by the lack of oil flow??

fsttyms1

Of some of the cars you listed, while they had a 5 speed they werent the same trans. Honda Odyssey and the 1998-2002 Honda Accord had them as well.

And as for your question about the cooler. You can try it but it wont help. Many in the past tried it and it never helped. All but one of my trans (i had 5 failures) had it and they all failed. One only lasted 15k. The original trans without lasted the longest (79k) Cooling the fluid is always good, but it still does NOTHING to help getting the fluid to the parts that cant get it and are wearing out faster due to the lack of fluid. Simply put, If the fluid is -30deg and cant get to the part that is +300 deg it still wont help that part. Believe me, you arent the first to question this nor will you be the last. These discussions have been going on here since back in 2001-02. There have been MANY attempts to solve the issue none have worked.

crazyjkz

But didn't the February 2005 redesign of the 5AT resolve the failure/reliability issues at least for the most part due to larger oiling passages to 2nd and 3rd gear clutchpacks, improved clutchpack materials, and a few other fairly significant upgrades/improvements?? I read in some previous posts and threads that there have been VERY few failures of Feb 05-present 5-speed automatics due to the redesign.

If you browse around on http://www.carcomplaints.com you can scroll and toggle through different model years of whatever vehicle you are researching and their is a HUGE reduction in reported 5AT transmission failures/problems in the 2005-present Accord, Odyssey, TL, and MDX.

I also would have to believe that Honda/Acura has made other changes and improvements to the 5AT that aren't made public that we don't even know about to further ensure that the reliability/longevity issues are FINALLY a thing of the past. Although I don't have any hard evidence of this, logically you would have to consider that this 5AT issue has cost Honda MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in rebuilds, replacements, and diagnostics and it would most certainly be in the company's best interest at this point to make continual improvements/upgrades/updates of the 5AT, no matter how small or large they may be, to further ensure that the 2nd/3rd gear clutchpack and oil flow issues are completely resolved without question.

fsttyms1

None of that has any thing to do with the discussion though. The discussion was about a trans cooler helping to keep the trans from failing. In regards to the old design and its issues, even with a cooler it wont save it. Now the newer designs arent showing to fail like the old ones due to the redesigned parts inside. Even so a cooler wouldnt keep them from failing if they still had issues as stated many times before, its not the fluid being to hot, its that not enough fluid can get to it to cool it properly.

crazyjkz

I understand all that, I just thought that you were suggesting that there is or was no fix whatsoever for the lack of oil flow issues when the Feb 2005 redesign did supposedly resolve most if not all of the reliability/longevity issues with the 5AT. Does anyone have any actual specific details on exactly what was changed, improved, and/or redesigned on the February 2005-present 5ATs??

texholdem

Is it correct that if your car has an oil jet kit installed, a transmission oil cooler should and cannot be added?

fsttyms1

Not true. I had one. The cooler attaches the same way. The oil jet just goes in between

acutee

You wont touch the oiljet. You need to remove the 6" tube in the rear, behind engine, and that is where the cooler lines go into.

Skirmich

That exploding 2nd shaft was something I was really concern about! but I havent seen One thread about the Trans Failure with that exact failure! Imagine! Going about 60 and the wheels suddenly lock up????? Thats Dangerous luckily my Trans just skip shifting when it goes....

I was actually wondering if doing the jet kit (My trans Doesnt have It, And Since I rebuilt it in a Local Shop HONDA/ACURA Warranty was raped) But No one told me if the Jet Kit for the Honda Pilot 04 worked on my car since I asked on a related post some time ago and wanted it to buy it....

So Installing the Jet Kit and using the jet kit as the entrance of the Cooled Oil? It will need a kinda "Y" Adapter for to work but since the jet kit is supposed to Cool the 2nd Shaft, Making the cooled oil enter the transmission first in that point would help Alot?? Thats my Theory tough.

Im Still Running 2 Hayden Coolers Side-by-Side that are rated about 18,000GVW it looks kinda cool lol some people have told me that looked like an Intercooler! its Funny tough.
L8ters!

acutee

The Oiljet and the Lines for tranny cooler have nothing to do with one another.

Skirmich

Well Since the Oil Jet uses the Steel Line that comes out from the OEM Tranny Filter and then re-route a Line to the Oil Jet and the OEM Oil Inlet Line thats where Tranny Cooler gets the oil so the Jet Kit and the Tranny Cooler are related.

And Yup I used the DIY from Here to Install the Tranny Cooler.

The Oil Jet kit replaces the OEM Filter outlet Line with a "Y" Steel Pipe instead of the original.
Attached the Oil Jet Kit Picture:

fsttyms1

I still havent to this day seen 1 2nd gear shaft failure. I have seen a few members that had the trans replaced because of discoloration.

If im reading your question right, no it wont help a lot. The jet kits sole purpose was to cool ONLY the 2nd gear shaft that didnt get enough coolant to it. Cooling it further more isnt going to help it even more. Its not going to help the 3rd gear problem at all as the fluid is NOT getting to the 3rd gear clutchpack.

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

Damn, you wake up early.

With a problem like this, you don't want the fluid to be viscous. A thicker fluid means less flow, and colder fluids are more viscous. However, whatever fluid does get to the 3rd gear clutch pack will more effectively cool, if it is cooler itself. For example, a -2°C ice cube will cool a drink faster than a -1°C ice cube. In this case the problem is that there isn't enough ice, so the effects are diminished.

Q=(m)(c)(ΔT)

We want to maximize Q, as it stands for the amount of heat absorbed by the tranny fluid from the clutch pack. A colder fluid means a higher (ΔT), but a lower (m). However, from my experience, this difference in (m) will be negligible. Unfortunately, (m) is already so low due to the poor design of the transmission. This means that the effect of a larger (ΔT) is insignificant. So in the end, though it will help a little bit, it won't be enough to make any differences.

Different fluids will have different values of (c). This is the specific heat of the fluid. However, a higher (c) is not necessarily more effective at cooling. This is because a higher (c) will yield a lower (ΔT). A balance must be achieved. This balance will change depending upon the temperature of the transmission fluid! Thus, if you are going to use a transmission cooler, changing your ATF to one with a higher specific heat may help better cool your clutch packs.

Of course if the problem in the clutch pack is not heat, but rather a lack of lubrication, then that's an entirely different story.

texholdem

That means despite the recall and the oil jet kit the 3rd gear clutchpack remains a sword of Damocles to 2nd gen TLs, almost all of which are out of warranty by now.

fsttyms1

The trans had 2 actuall problems.
The RECALL was to add the Oiljet. Both the recall and the oiljet had NOTHING to do with the 3rd gear problem and were ONLY for the 2nd gear shaft. The 3rd gear problem which we all suffer from is what the EXTENDED Warranty was for.

The oiljet DID work for its intended purpose. The feb05 fixes acura had made did reduce the failures by A LOT. The rate of failures if i had to guess (from what i have seen here) is probably down 1000% we used to see a couple failures a day, now? sometimes one a month if that.

fsttyms1

I never said you wanted fluid to be viscus, and your technical stuff is all fine and dandy, BUT i dont care if the fluid is as thick as syrup or thinner than water, if it cant get to the part to cool it it doesnt matter how cold the fluid is, its not going to do its job. And yes the problem is heat in the clutchpack. Heat is killing the clutch plates because not enough fluid can get to it. That said, If i still had a Auto trans id probably be running Redline fluid in it.