planetside

Okay, can someone shed some light on this idea of "training" your car? My understanding is that every new car eventually adapts to the driver's habits, such that (comparing apples to apples), two of the exact same car, over a relatively short period of time, one can potentially outperform the other. In other words, the car that was not properly trained falls short of its maximum potential.

Assuming I understand what training SHOULD accomplish, here are some questions:

1) What are the critical miles for training a car?
2) HOW does one best train his/her car?
3) What are some personal experiences/stories in regards to the training of your TL-S?
4) Can a car ever be "untrained"?

Thanks, everyone!

Danny

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

OK, in order

1) The manual recommends a 600 mile break-in. I went 1000. That means very little high revs, varying the speed, etc.

2) You train your car by driving normally the break-in. Just drive however you drive and the computer adjusts to your style

3) No real stories... every car is different, whether it's b/c of "training" or some manufacturer variations. No two cars will perform the same regardless.

4) You can untrain the car by disconnecting the battery for a half-hour or so. This resets the ECU.

One thing to keep in mind is that our ECU is constantly "learning". By that I mean that if you drive aggressive, the car will learn that style and adjust. If you go through a period of relaxed driving... the car will readjust to that... and so on.

Good luck

snapple

I didn't know the car does that. COOOL.

Southbound

Yeah, tell me more about how the ECU can "learn" a particular style of driving? And even if it could, what would that mean to a driver? The ECU must be able to INSTANTLY adapt to any change in driving characteristics in order to handle the "surprises" on a twisty curvy road, etc. If it got used to only the wife's style of driving, are you saying that it would have to take time to "unlearn" her more conservative sytle before taking on a sudden curve, or sudden change in road conditions , etc.??? In other words, it wouldn't be able to downshift as quickly, or take on a road rally course without "Unlearning" the grocery store runs??? I can see where some of the rubber suspension parts of a car could become hardened by lack of use, etc. and take some time to become plyable again... but what does that have to do with the ECU?

I DON'T MEAN THIS TO BE A FLAME IN ANY WAY... I just don't get it... Maybe it's me that needs to learn??? The idea is fascinating... I'd love to train my car NOT to piddle the AC condensation on the garage floor... How do I train it to piddle outside???? Newspapers aren't working! LOL (again, I'm just joking around, no flame intended)

Thanks for your enlightening posts, juniorbean!

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

The ECU only affects stuff like the tranny and the engine... it does not control the suspension. Therefore, handling would not be affected. If your wife drives the car most of the time and drives it conservatively then yes... comparing your car to mine for example... the shifts may be timed differently, etc. Of course... there's always SS where you control the shifts, so you would override any tendancies the car has.

Our ECU is very "smart", so the car re-learns driving styles rather quickly. I should have been more specific on #4 above. If your wife drives the car conservatively, then you take the car out and drive more aggressive, after a drive or two by you the ECU will adapt to your style and shift more aggressively, etc. Again.. this is in full-auto mode. The ECU is constantly adjusting to the driver, so it is flexible. However, the more the same person drives the car, the better it is to drive for that person b/c the car knows his/her style.

Personally, I use SS 99.9% of the time, so I'm controlling the shifts after 1-->2. As for the AC piddling... if you don't want to have to leave the car out... I'd suggest buying the Car Pad liner from this site for your garage. It's almost like Depends for your car :p

axleback

Good one junior. Sad, our car is so young and already has bladder problems.

axleback

ferizzo

I agree with Junior. When I drive my fiancee's accord I notice that her car down shifts much slower than mine. I drive much more aggressively than she does and so when I stomp on the gas in my TLS it downshifts pretty quickly while if I do the same on hers, its takes maybe half a second slower before the car downshifts. I know they are two different cars but quite similar.

snapple

Same here. I noticed when I stomp on the pedal it down shifts immediately. COOL.

Southbound

Thanks juniorbean for the further explanation! Also thanks for taking my comments in good fun!

Sounds like I like my TLS more and more all the time... That's innovative technology that you're talking about in our beloved cars... No more grocery store runs for my wife... I need my ECU trained for "immediate response"! You never know when a ricer "wannabe" might appear...

Thanks again!

T Ho

I'd like to see this supported by some factory documentation somewhere. People have been talking about ECUs that "learn" since computers went into cars.
I've yet to see any hard evidence of this (looking at fuel/ignition curves).

Point me to the source of this info.

roadman

I am not sure sure that the ECU needs time to adjust. The adjustments occur immediately. It handles the function of choke, adjustment of timing, grade of gas, etc. These all change rapidly.

jirik

I would want to second T Ho's question. Even if many other cars do advertise this feature, I also have not seen any mention of this for TL-S. I was wondering whether I overlooked it, Acura does not advertise it, or simply this feature is not available for TL-S.

Michellene

The soon-to-be wife here is the aggresive driver in the family...He may have a Viper...but I know how to DRIVE it... (grin)...

That ECU is pretty cool...in theory, when the man of the house doesn't drive like he wants to get anywhere, it will adjust to his style...then immediately adjust to mine...when I drive...that is the coolest.

ferizzo

I don't think its advertised because its not like we are saying the car knows its me driving (its ferizzo driving now). I believe it just gets accustomed to your driving habits. So if you get in the car and drive it hard for a few hours it will expect to be driven hard and maybe shift a tad quicker. barely noticeable.

T Ho

Yeah, but I think that is a myth. Does the ECU really alter shift times, based on specific, long-term, learned driving habits? I don't think so. Note that this is different than the Grade Logic function, which will downshift/hold gears if you drive aggressively (at least, mine does) in twisty hill country, but these changes are instantaneous, and when I stop driving like that, it stops shifting like that.

Todd

Ray_Khan

Does the ECU in the TLS control the shifting? I thought most cars had a separate computer to control the tranny? The ECU is the Engine Control Unit...nothing to do with the tranny....right? As for the learning thing, I don't buy it either.....shift maps are shift maps, the more you have, the more responsive the tranny is since it doesn' thave to wait until a certain RPM to react. It only sees a load and an RPM and makes a choice where it wants to put the tranny. The time it takes to shift gears should be set in the programming. Some tuners offer chips to make the auto tranny's shift faster. As for the ECU changing engine management characteristics to your driving style, that makes no sense either. It's simply load vs fuel and load vs spark timing. I think there is a some placebo that fools people and that sales people wiill tell customers things like that sicne they don't know any better. I agree with T Ho here...everything happening in the software happens instantaneously. That's my $.02

Mr Hyde

These cars do adapt to our driving habits by controlling the shifts. Its nothing special, many cars do it. The Accord has the same setup as well. It only really affects the shift points. For example some cars like my Volvo S70 allow you to manually choose a sport mode, economy mode, and a winter mode which does the same thing. The Accord had it as far back as the early 90's. Many cars just dont offfer the manully controlled option anymore.

When I really beat on my car, and then suddenly drive super conservative, the car does shift later and harder, after a few minutes though it does adjust to the slower smoother driving style.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

I'll check to see if I can find some documentation. I read this somewhere... I was never told this by anyone. Problem is that it was about a year and a half ago... so I don't remember where I read it. I general don't post stuff I've heard, I only post stuff I read for myself b/c 98% of what you hear is BS... 99.9998% BS if you're referring to dealers.....

I dont' think it's that far fetched at all. Many cars have a "sport" mode button you can push which will make the car "behave" more aggressively. Why couldn't that be done w/o a button when the car realizes it's being driven harder? Doesn't seem like a big deal to me.....

fsttyms1

i agree with juniorbean, he is right

roadman

I would be very surprised to see that there is a coputer that takes days to learn your driving habits. What is Acura using a Commodore 64 as a computer, with a cassette tape as it's hard drive ? (bet not to many people remember those pc's !). The ECU starts it's job the instant the key is turned, it does not look to see who is sitting in the seat.

I seldom go WOT on my TLS, so does that mean that it learned not to ? Maybe so but when I do stomp on it it suddently remembers something that it learned when in the maternity ward and goes like a bat out of hell !!

Those sport/economy buttons basically control the rpm's and rpm shift points. Essentially the conomy mode gets you into the highest possible gear as quickly as possioble to keep rpms down. The soprt mode keeps you in the lowest gear possible.

T Ho

Ah, but now you're talking about something different than what I understand the original poster to mean.
Let's say I'm driving around town, just rolling along. Trans shifts normally, upshifting through all the gears as soon as possible.
Now, suddenly, I step on it, run it up to 6000 in 2nd, immediately off the gas, on the brake, and back to full throttle in 1/2sec. The trans will hold 2nd during that braking (mine does, anyway). The control unit (whichever one that is) INSTANTLY recognizes the conditions (gear, throttle position, acceleration, brake ON/Off, etc) and adjusts the shift pattern. As soon as I go back to "normal" driving, the trans goes back to "normal" shifting. That's not learning, that's pre-programmed.

Per the original post, the question seemed to be "Can I train my car to shift/drive aggressively all the time, even when I don't drive aggressively. AND, does this make my car better/faster if I do this?" My answer to that question is NO.

Todd

roadman

T Ho,

Agreed, imagine what a trip to get service would be like. Picture this you and I are in dropping our cars off because the tranny is bad. Do they ask you how you drive ? NO

In your scenario above what would it be that the ECU needed to learn. That someday you may, under the exact conditions on the exact same road do potentially the same thing, and do it for you ? I doubt that this is built into the car, what value would it have ?

Ray_Khan

Again...I think it has to to with how many shift maps are in the tranny computer. I'm sure the TLS has quite a few. I think the prelude auto had a a whole lot more than the accord, so I am guessing the TLS is similar to the the prelude in having a more shift maps to choose from than an Accord. So the tranny is more responsive to how you are driving at that time. I don't see how the tranny computer will learn, there are a finite number of shift maps, but having many will make the car versatile and react to driver input better.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

I corrected myself from the original response on one of my follow-ups as indicated above... the ECU adjusts quickly to different driving style... it does not take days.

I'd just like to highlight the line from my post above which says "The ECU is constantly adjusting to the driver, so it is flexible". So it's obvious it's not a Commodore 64... probably a IBM PC Jr. or so :p

See Mr. Hyde's post as well as he explained it very well in a short paragraph

roadman

The original question spoke to an individual specifically training an ECU to where car A would perform better than car B because the driver trained the ECU differently. I do not believe that is the case.
The adjustements that an ECU makes are pre-programmed and do not have the capability (I think) to write and store new code based on a new driving pattern.

kennelm

I agree with T Ho.

The on-board computer is probably not "learning". What it is probably doing is selecting from a set of preprogrammed profiles, and using the one that best matches the current driver's behavior.

But, it is cool, even so.

snapple

How come the dealer never tells you about things like this.

AndySara

"The ECU is constantly adjusting to the driver, so it is flexible".

Maybe this will help explain things a little clearer.

The ECU takes a MOVING average of the last (I do not know the exact figure, but for simplicity sake, let us say) 100 times you step on the gas. If you are an agressive driver, the ECU will log your driving habit (how hard you accelerate or shift gears) and adjust accordingly.
HOWEVER like I said, it is a moving average, so if you mom drove the car before you, the first ten times you step on the gas, the ECU will average that with her 90 times and come up with what it thinks is ideal. The longer you drive the car, the more it will tailor itself to you driving style.

Does this make sense to anyone ?

snapple

Makes sense to me

Raheel

You know my dad has this stupid Switch on his 94 Maxima.. I never understood it.. Its Comfort - Auto - I cant rmr the last one its like performance or something.. I called Nissan and the lady was stupid shes like I believe the Comfort is for Comfort and she had no clue what she was saying.. No one has yet to tell me wtf it does.. I have tried it both ways and you dont feel a diff.. ANYONE KNOW

roadman

AndySara,

It makes sense that it could possibly store this info, but what would it do with this 100 times average. There are hundreds of variables in every mile that you drive. I as the driver am in complete control of what I want my car to do in any situation. I do not want my car to behave in any manner other than the one that I determine is best based on the situation that I see.

T Ho

Where does that info come from? I'd like to see a source.

AndySara

Like I said...the 100 is an arbitary figure that I used to make my explanation clearer. The info came from an Infiniti article that I read several years ago. (My first two cars were Accords, then an Infiniti, and now I'm back to a high end "Accord").

BTW - This is what I had in my Infiniti.
There was a button for "Sport/normal/comfort" driving.
Whn you have it set to Sport, the RPM's would go higher (3500-3700) before the automatic transmission shifted gears.
Nortmal is around 2500-2700.
When you are at "comfort", gear changes were around 1500-1700 RPM. That is so that you would not feel the car "jerk" between changes.

jirik

Sorry guys, but I still have not seen any proof that what you talk about is really happening in TL-S. It is all just conjectures.