As many of you have heard, the new 2002 Altima is moving up in size to take the place of the Maxima (Maxima is going fullsize). If you haven't seen the new Altima, you will most likely be impressed. It shares suspension components with the Skyline, will sport either a 2.5 180hp/180tq I4 or a 3.5 240hp/240tq V6, 5 speed or auto, fully independant suspension, optional Xenon headlights, navigation system, dual exhaust (V6), and optional 17s. The car looks like a Lexus GS series. This thing is light years ahead of the old Altima. Nissan has gotten a 6.3 0-60 which I can only assume is a little on the high side (they said 6.9 0-60 for the 2000 Maxima and the mags got 6.6). Could this car give the TL-S a run for it's money? All I can say is that I feel sorry for the guys that bought 2001 Maximas. The lighter weight of the Altima will most likely give the same performance as the upcoming 260hp Maxima SE-R.


Dave

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96 Maxima SE
14.73@93.93mph
y-pipe, b-pipe, drop-in filter

 

How can you even compare Nissan to Acura?
It will take Nissan Corp. a long time until they start building cars like Acura.
I drove my friend's 20th Anniversary special edition Maxima after I took a TL for a Test drive. Nissan is crap!!! It drives like an American car. I didn't feel the stability on the road that I felt from a TL-S.
I'm not even talking about some Altima that you have to take to the mechanic after 50-60k miles.
At this point Honda Corporation is producing the most reliable cars.

Sorry for being so aggresive, I just hate Nissans.

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2002 TL-S Aegian Blue Pearl. Underbody Kit, Spoiler

260 Horsepower of maximum performance. This is Blue Sunshine.
Sweet!!!

 

Pretty impressive statistics, to say the least. Now if they can fix what's turned me off of Nissans in the past -- poor quality, frumpy interiors and terrible resale value -- I'd consider it when my TL lease is up.

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2000 WDP 3.2TL non-NAV
AEM CAI en route...

 

I think Nissan has completely screwed up the Infinity division. In fact, from day 1, the Infinity cars never sell as well as Acura and Lexus cars. Part of the reason is that Honda and Toyota reserve the high power engines for the luxury division.

If Nissan continues to share high power engines between the cheap division and the luxury division, it is simply diverting car buyers to buy Nissan's instead of Infinity's.

 

i gotta disagree with you. i've had a '93 maxima and a 99 that i traded in for my 02'TLS and both were flawless, and if you look at blue book value, they hold the resale value very very well... its easier to get an accord then a maxima... and once again, that is what its up against... but as far as interiors - ur 100% correct... but it IS a nissan



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'02 Nighthawk TL-S
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Comptech Springs / Comptech Headers
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Alpine CVA-1005 Head Unit / Alpine G320 EQ / Alpine DVA-5205 DVD / Alpine NVE-N851A Navi / JL Audio XR653-CS 3-Way comps for the front powered by a bridged Alpine MRV-F407 amp / Boston Acoustics 5.5 ProSeries 2-Way comps for the rear powered by Alpine MRV-1002 amp / Dual 10" JL Audio W-6 sub powered by Alpine MRV-1005 amp / Two Alpine CHA-1214 CD Changers / 20% Tint all-around

__________________
'00 Nighthawk TL
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Aem Short Ram / Comptech Sway Bars / Comptech Springs / Cross-Drilled Rotors / Pirelli SP7000 Tires / 35% Tint all-around
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Pics of my TL and Fun/Crazy Pics

 

Well, the TL-S I test drove last week has one of the cheapest looking interiors I have ever seen. Where did them Honda engineers coming up with the ideas for these buttons? The interior looked almost identical to the Accord's.

 

Turbotc -- obviously something propelled you to buy your '99 TL -- so where were the "cheap interior" comments back in '99?

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2002 TL Type S
White Diamond Pearl
Parchment

 

Well, I gotta say that I don't agree with you at all. I test drove the TL-S also and I currently drive an Accord. Although there are many similarities between the two, the interior of a TL-S is much more refined than that of an Accord. I don't see how you can call the interior of the TL-S cheap.

 

OK so the interior of the TLS may not match up with an Audi Lexus Mercedes or BMW ... but at the price it sells for how can you reasonably expect it to?? Look at the big picture : for what the TLS gives you in engine performance, ride, handling, looks etc. its got to be the best freakin bargain out there right now. As far as comparisons go the TLS is a class apart from the Accord. Or the Camry or the Maxima. Yes there are things about the TLS’s interior that I don’t like – especially the ebony wood and the chrome door locks – but these I can live with.

 

Ok, so the TL reminds you of the Accord, but when you hit perfection, it's hard to go beyond that... isn't it? =D

Anyway, don't be dissing on Nissans. Their automobiles are quality stuff and they even have trucks whereas the only semi truck/suv's Honda has is the MDX and CR-V. Nissan has the Frontier, Pathfinder, and Xterra.

And Infiniti is gonna be all over in a little while. Have you checked out the new Q? Holy sh!t, the interior is the nicest I ever saw, the analog clocks kick butt and the exterior to that sucker is amazing. Hopefully the next RL will be able to counter that.

The only thing holding back Infiniti now is that you can basically get the same cars through Nissan. But once they get rid of the sharing, I'll actually rate the Infiniti's over the Acura's. I currently drive a QX4, and of the Acura's I've sat in, none of them really feel upscale to me. Don't get me wrong, the interiors are fantastic, but I feel the Infiniti nameplate overall feels a little more luxurious.

I'm getting a TL to replace my Infiniti, and I've always been a Honda fan so don't bash! Honda better not cut back on the RL or it'll never compete with the LS and Q. If Acura can get an AWD system into all their cars, they'll definitely be filling a niche. No luxury automaker from Japan has AWD on more than just their SUV's so far. The only reason the RL sells here in the Northeast is because it's FWD as compared to the horrible RWD of the LS and Q. In the snow it's terrible.

Oh and off topic. =)

 

I spent a lot of time looking at competitors to the TL before I purchased a 2002 TL-S. I have to say that nissan, particularly infiniti (I-30), in my opinion was superior in fit and finish. It was crisp and classy. That aside, the TL wins in engine, body design, and nav system (which was important to me). The tail of the maxima is just plain ugly. Until infiniti sets itself apart from the nissan line, they will always flounder.

 

I'll have to disagree on the interior being cheap. I've compared lots of cars, and the simplicity of the TL interior is awesome. The plastics are not cheap...I've compared them to the Infiniti stuff and it is matte finished, thicker, and quality. I've compared the interior of a BMW 330 with it and there is more cheap plastic in that bimmer than a civic.

But in the end, i'm sure it is totally a matter of taste. We all have preferences. But IMO, the fit and finish of the Acura and the quality of the materials are great...comparable to Lexus (which I think is the true benchmark of quality interior components, ergonomics, and fit and finish) German cars have more cheap plastic in them than some economy cars. But don't get me wrong, their cars handle nice,superior to most Japanese cars

 

Peter, Right. We bought a 99 TL a while back and had it until it was totalled. I guess we never realize about how cheap he interior was until we picked up the ES300 (replacement). I guess I am in the wrong forums to comment on the TL (or TL-S) but those buttons....couldn't them engineers do anything better?

 

Turbotc --

I wasn't knockin' your decision to purchase the TL, I was sincerely curious what you thought of it before the accident. I do consider the ES300 to be of the MOST solid fit and finish -- remember, I drove and loved my '94 for three years. Until it started givin' me some serious probs, I thought it was a gem, and literally the best car built in its price range!

I have driven several 2000 and 2001 Lexus ES300 loaners, and I know -- I don't care what anyone says, I KNOW the fit and finish of these ES300's and ALL lexus's (haven't seen the IS yet personally) is SUPERIOR to Mercedes and Acura. Not bashing the TL-S either, but I saw these things from DAY ONE when i rolled into my garage w/ the Type S.

I've been in and around a Legend before, and seriously, Acura's quality controls have gone downhill real fast. The quality issues are prevalent on their premium sedan, the RL, as well -- I extensively looked over the showroom model while waiting for the Type S to be washed.

Turbo -- you're right, the engineers shoulda come up w/ something better -- who knows. As many others are saying, it's the whole picture I considered. I wasn't going to pay more than $35,000 (before tax) on my next car, so I pretty much knew what my choices were, and I honestly quickly narrowed them down to the ES300 and the TL-S. I woulda gone for the ES300 in a heartbeat had the Type S not been out -- didn't even consider the I30 -- I think they're seriously BLAND in terms of exterior styling.

At this point, I just wanted something quicker than the previous ES300 that I could play around w/ once in a while. So long as this Acura is mechanically reliable, I'm happy. But I'm certainly not kicking myself for not spending another $20K to buy another E320 or a BMW cuz their interior is better. I have to live comfortably within my means.

 

http://contour.org/forums/Forum1/HTML/006266.html

This is a link that'll show you a pic of the New "Altima" .. I think it looks pretty cool. I think the interior is a bit too prototypic/conceptual, but I like what I see.

I just wonder what the price will be now that it's a whole new car. And what will the Maxima run now that IT'S gunna be a much bigger car. I think now you have a totally new argument on value vs. options.

 

Peter, I don't mean to sound that harsh on the interior of the TL-S but I thought that they could have done better with the layout of the buttons, etc. We did test drive one and it drove wicked nice. My wife didn't care for the power though. She didn't like the interior though and thought that they should have a one touch sunroof. Anyways we cancelled our LS430 order since the stock market has been down so bad. They had agreed before we signed that we could but they sure as heck are not happy with our decision. So we are in the market for another car, maybe we might get the Toyota Highlander, she liked it even though not as nice as RX300 but we figure we must have at least one AWD vehicle in the house.

 

Turbo,

I know what you mean -- these minor blips in the economy are seriously pissing me off -- what pisses me off even more are these analysts on CNN that claim we've bottomed out and we're back on the upswing.

The Toyota Highlander is a sharp ride -- pretty much the RX300 w/o the Lexus skin. Did you consider the Infinit QX4 -- those things are ultra-nice w/ the Xenon headlamps and the revised foglights. Out in Boston, the AWD HAS to come in handy often -- w/ all that snow that dumped on MA this winter!!

 

It must be a regional thing then... I can't help but notice that used Nissans (yes, Maximas too) sell for significantly less than comparable cars from other Japanese makers, namely Honda and Toyota.

As far as my thoughts on their quality... it stemmed from the experience of several friends that have owned Nissan products in the past. Several of them have had paint problems (95 Maxima, 93(?) Altima)... and my friend's mother's 1997 Pathfinder has several pieces of interior trim that are MIA.

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2000 WDP 3.2TL non-NAV
AEM CAI en route...

 

I guess this is personal preference... but in automotive circles Honda's ergonomics are generally thought to be beyond reproach. I think even their lowest-priced Civic has some of the silkiest switchgear there is. You can certainly tell the lineage of the TL when you sit in an Accord, but I don't see that as a bad thing at all -- at the very least it's indicative of ANY car in this price class that's based on a "lesser" model.

------------------
2000 WDP 3.2TL non-NAV
AEM CAI en route...

 

The TL-S is actually overall the best bang for the buck (around $32k or so). I agree the ES300 lack the power and by the time you add the amenities that come standard on the TL-S you will be spending more like $36k or even more. We thought about the Highlander because the more I think of it, an investment in a car is like money you will never see again. So to spend $38k or whatever for the RX300 is way too much plus I don't think it is worth it. Besides, the Lexus dealer is on the edge of downtown Boston which is a pain to drive thru not to mention an hour away from where we live. Plus when we bought our ES300 the salesman said that they offer free pickup and delivery for any kind of service including oil change. But when we called up they said that pickup is only for broken down and undriveable vehicles. The salesman is no longer there so where do we go? Toyota and Nissan and MB dealers are 5 minutes away. We don't like the exterior (especially the rear end) of the Maxima. infinity dealer is 45 minutes away. We might just keep the ES300 and get snow tires for it. it is horrible with those factory equipped. Michelin MXV4 in the snow. Here is a depressing story. A neighbor 3 doors away has been with Cisco for 8 years. He said his stock options dropped from $4.3mil at its peak to less than $700k currently. Even before he saw his wealth go down the drain this guy and his wife only drive a Civic and a Dodge Stratus. You order your Zaino yet? I got my Zainos and Lexols and a pressure washer ready for some serious detailing this weekend.

 

I agree 100%, I used to own a Maxima, it was totalled when it was 4 years old. I also had a 92 Accord which was totalled when it was 6 years old, the year before. The insurance paid out the same amount for bith cars, my 6 year old Accord, and the 4 year old Maxima. I did a little cheking afterwards, and the Nissans resale value is far behind Honda which is a class leader.

 

Also I thought it would take me awhile to get used to the rear of the Maxima, but looking at the Altima, I dont think I'll ever get used to that. P.S my bro owns a 99 Altima; didnt Nissan learn its lesson????

As Far as the ES300 goes, I agree its a great car, my friend owns a 2000 with the VVt-i engine, but I'll take my TL anyday over it. The ride is just too muted and isolated for me.

 

It seems as though the largest hurdle the new Altima will have is its legacy. Inheriting an econo-car name won't help sales any. Clearly the Maxima doesn't have that stigma. Currently the Altima is between a rock (Maxima) and a hard place (Sentra SE-R) both of which outperform it. Best wishes to Nissan, this is a very competitive segment but 240 HP would help a bunch...

Regards
-w

 

i dont think the interior of nissan and infinity is all that bad....actually..i love them....check out some pix of the 2000 I35 and you will see what i am talking about
http://www.infinitinews.com/infiniti...0px/06_i35.jpg
http://www.infinitinews.com/infiniti...0px/05_i35.jpg

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave B:
[B]As many of you have heard, the new 2002 Altima is moving up in size to take the place of the Maxima (Maxima is going fullsize). If you haven't seen the new Altima, you will most likely be impressed. It shares suspension components with the Skyline, will sport either a 2.5 180hp/180tq I4 or a 3.5 240hp/240tq V6, 5 speed or auto, fully independant suspension, optional Xenon headlights, navigation system, dual exhaust (V6), and optional 17s. The car looks like a Lexus GS series. This thing is light years ahead of the old Altima. Nissan has gotten a 6.3 0-60 which I can only assume is a little on the high side (they said 6.9 0-60 for the 2000 Maxima and the mags got 6.6). Could this car give the TL-S a run for it's money? All I can say is that I feel sorry for the guys that bought 2001 Maximas. The lighter weight of the Altima will most likely give the same performance as the upcoming 260hp Maxima SE-R.


Dave

How much lighter-do you know its weight?

 

What I want to know is why all these comparisons of the TL-S to cars that are below it's marque. Is the TL-S not good enough to be compared to Saabs? BMW? (well...) Audi? VW? Volvo? Lexus?

C'mon, is the performance of TL-S really a straight ahead comparison against an Accord/Camry rival like the Altima? Reason why the Altima is getting this much ego boost is to up the ante among these Jap midsize cars. The company who gets to exceed the performance envelope for their sedan class gets bragging rights on how much of a "driver's car" theirs are.

There's no doubt that the TL-S has given all cars in the near-luxury category a run for their money. All this performance and then some for under $37k.

 

Well, the major reason why TL-S is not among the Audi/BMW because it's a Japanese car. Like all Japanese cars, it's too conservative. For many decades, Japanese cars are the affordable, dependable cars. And they are branded as such.

And for many years, Acuras are knockoff of BMW and Lexuses are knockoff of MB. They are very good cars but it was until recently it started to have exciting products. It was brand styling for many years.

And European are more daring to try something new. Audi and BMW goes round. MB goes 4 eyed (headlights). That are daring and that's what people like. And like to be identify with.

Perception is still the Japanese luxurious brands biggest hurdle.

Sieko and Rolex are both very good watches, but which one you rather have......