I don't yet own a TL-S yet. Supposed to pick one up by the end of the month, so you'll have to excuse some of the ignorance in this question. Never owned an Acura, hell I've only owned one foreign car my hole life! I do however think that the TL and TL-S are two of the best BANG for BUCK cars you can buy.

My question is this...after reading through many post in this section on increasing the performance. Why is it so hard to get more HP and TQ out of these motors? I Know, I Know..don't start bashing, I honestly like the car, but i keep hearing about this Super Charger coming up that only produces 60- 90 additional HP, and for $10,000?!?! You kidding me right? Wheres the weak link on these motors, the bottom end?

 

Its hard to get more hp and tq out of Honda engines in general because they already have a high specific output. If you look at the V8 in the M5, which is a very good engine, then only way you can really get more hp/tq out of it is if you do forced induction. It comes from the factory with all the tuning done (has a factory style CAI etc). Honda does this tuning to a certain degree with most of its engines for better fuel economy, LEV status or just more hp/tq . Example, many ITRs actually lose horsepower if you add CAIs or exhausts from them.

The supercharger will cost a lot but I don't think it will go to 10k. Also, the hp gain is so little mostly because the weak tranny can't handle it.

 

let me say this...60-90 is no slouch...it's not the HP anyway it's the torque...and 10K where did you get that...try 4500,not half of what you're thinking,witha 70 lb.ft increase in torque short of tires that can hold...we're talking 5.0 flat 0-60's that's vette time...

 

Nitro-C5, I would agree with the others that HP in these cars is already made by the efficient intake and it is tough to improve on. How about a shot of juice? QuickRick

 

QuickRick...I knew I'd find someone hear that I liked No juice, either, this will definately be my daily driver. Hell i've moddified the Vette so much the thing will barely it idle. Just the way I like it :p

Bioyuki...Is there a possiblity that the TL-S will make less HP/ TQ with a CAI? Who makes the best, and the expected HP increase?

TypeR...As far as the price is concerned, I got that directly from others posts on this site, that may be, however installed with any additional upgrades. Don't know 60-90 HP/TQ increase does pretty much suck for a Supercharger, I would think that the engine would be able to hold alot more boost than that. Will the compression ratio have to be dropped first before the kit is installed? And 70 lbs. TQ will not get you in "Vette" range at least not any vettes made in the past 15 years.

 

With CAI's you can go with either AEM or Injen. Unfortunetly the Injen one is not CARB certified. The AEM one is much more popular and is available with the much needed bypass valve. Dynos have shown a gain of 3-7hp on the J32A2 engine.

For more info you can ask on this site (I don't want the noise associated with one so I don't own one) or head over to www.aempower.com

Edit: Fuxed up the link...

 

As for the Supercharger...the compression ratio will probably drop, stock is what 10.5:1. Thats up for Comptech to decide though with its ECU bypass thingie. I don't think anybody but Comptech knows how much stress the J32A2 can take. There are members on this board with a 75 shot for a J32A1 that are fine. I think the general consensus that the weak point of our car is the transmission and not the engine. There have been a couple members that have had theirs replaced and as of now the part is on national backorder. The preliminary Comptech design calls for the addition of a transmission cooler and the use of a different ATF.

 

Oh yeah, have you decided to get a TL-P or a TL-S yet?

IMO if you're so interested in getting more performence you shouldn't even be considering the TL-P.

 

Yeah the TL-S seem to suit me better! You guys are great salesman! I know I'll end up monkeying with it anyway to get more power and performance. I guess its better to start with the more performance based car.

Wow only a couple of HP with and Intake

Wouldn't make sense that a car that is so compliant with low emmsion, that you would be able to bypass some of the restrictive components?

That makes sense what you are saying about the trans failing before the motor. Acura makes great reliable motors.

 

Hmmm... I don't think it's as bad as you make it sound to be.
I mean, for a 3.2 liter V-6 engine to make power is obviously
harder than a 350 V-8. But, It's been shown with just bolt ons
(expensive bolt ons) our engines can make 240hp to the wheels.
That's some 45-55 hp to the crank over stock! Not too many
naturally aspirated V-6 engines out there that put out 310 hp.
Supercharged (conservatively) there's another 60-70hp to the
crank. 380hp... That's not too shabby.

 

Nitro-C5, I agree with most of the answers you got and thought I'd mention HP per liter to get a better idea on the efficiency/state of tune/performance of the motor.

I'll use the stock HP of your Vette for the comparison. A 1998 Corvette (stock ) makes 345HP and 350lbs of torque right? That is 60.5HP per liter being produced by 5.7 liters V-8and 61lbs of torque per liter.

Now the TL-S is making 81.25HP per liter and 72.5lbs. of torque from a 3.2liter V-6.

That's just over 20HP more per liter compared to the LS-1, and 11.5lbs. more torque.

This makes it a little easier to get an idea of the state of "tuning" the Honda V-6 is at. IMO, I regard Honda as one of the premier engine designer's in the world. Be it a little motor for your backyard weed whacker or the current V-10 Formula One engine(Honda F-1 engines rev up to 18,000RPM's , Honda knows it's engines.

One reason the SC is limited in making HP is because of it's compression ratio, it's 10.5:1. That pretty much limits the amount of boost you can pump in there. And a lack of a Intercooler adds to the limit also I would think. Lots of timing needs to be retarded also.

Bioyuki, I don't understand your comment about compression ratio being handled by the ECU. Did you mean the amount of boost(PSI)? I believe the only way to change the compression of a motor is to physically change something, i.e. pistons, heads, head gasket<cheap way, etc.

Anyway, hope this helps. A little extra FYI; the Honda S2000 motor makes 120HP per liter! That's 240HP out of a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder engines that relines at 8900RPM!! Not many factory/off the showroom street legal cars are up in that league, a few I can think of like the new M3 and Ferrari 360.

The TL-S is a great everyday car for me, and I don't like heavily modifying my "daily driver" too much. It's already done for me, sort of speak, although headers never seem to leave my mind. That's what my Flexiflyer '88 LX is for, handles, flex's and stops like a P.O.S. but fun to mod (esp. with N2O)

Man this long!! See what happens when I'm at home sick:p

 

Yes the exhaust is very restrictive so the TL-S gets LEV status. The biggest hp gain is from Comptech's headers. They cost about 1k but they give a gain of about 30hp.

 

Yup...my bad if I didn't make it clear...

 

upgrades. Don't know 60-90 HP/TQ increase does pretty much suck for a Supercharger, I would think that the engine would be able to hold alot more boost than that. Will the compression ratio have to be dropped first before the kit is installed? And 70 lbs. TQ will not get you in "Vette" range at least not any vettes made in the past 15 years. really 90 hp/70lb.ft...is ****ty from a blower???BTW dont take this the wrong way im not being criticle or any thing...just hear me out...there are some that have done 5.5 gtec( i know not casio track accurate) but a good baseline...5.5 with I/H/E and i saw one g tec at 5.33 no headers,but a extrude honed intake...so short of hooking up...5.0 0-60 and low to mid 13's ...non heavily moddified vettes are alot faster than that??? and how much hp/lb.ft does the svt ligthning get from its blower???

 

Those number do not suck for a supercharger. Like someone says that the headers would give you 32hp, but you have to remember that is only at 6k+ RPM only and the rest 2k to 6k RPM is only an average of 3hp gain. A supercharger would give you an average of 20hp to 80hp in the whole RPM band, not just at one point. Making it a big difference. A supercharger needs torque to work, so at the same time that it gives you power it takes power from your engine. Effeciency is the key word. A supercharger with a range of 70hp to 120hp is a good rating for a supercharger.

A typical supercharger would give about 30 to 50% of your engine output. So 200hp at the wheels for a Type S would be around 80hp at the wheels output for a any supercharger, not just comptech.

 

I've been out of town for the week so i haven't had a chance to check the responses to my question. Thank-you to those of you who have voiced your opinions, however just like the "vette forum" some of you understand the question and some of you take it personally. Once again I really like the Acura's, thus the reason I'm buying one! What i was talking about with the Supercharger "low" output has been somewhat answered. My point was that an engine that is built AS WELL as the TL-S i would think should be able to handle higher levels of boost. The amount of stress the engine can take, ie increasing the compression ratio will ultimately determine the maximum amount of PSI you can run on the SC or TT and that amount combined with the size of the combustion chambers will ultimately determine the max power of the motor. So my point once again is it just seemed a little conservative the amount of PSI that the motor could take, however being that the motor already is generating a compression ratio over 10:1 this now makes more sense.

Type-R...I understand your point, however hear is something for you to consider about forced induction and it involves a lowly american bulit Corvette. Turbos and Superchargers are not well known on American V-8's, mostly for 2 reasons: 1) High displacments V-8's usually already make a great deal of HP/TQ and don't usually need additional additives 2) It's beleived that simple american tecnology cannot build a motor capable of holding up to the vigors of forced induction. There was one man named Reeves Calloway that set out to prove both of those theroys wrong. He bult one of the most amazing cars ever produced using all american parts, the Calloway Sledgehammer. the Sledgehammer used the 1988 Corvette and all of its componets including the stock "L98" 350ci. motor. He miraculously added 4 Turbo chargers and 4 intercoolers to this motor. the only major modifications to it was to rebuild the bottom end crank, pistons and connecting rods to handle the 40+ PSI of boost!!! The results speak for themself:
*880 HP
*900 ft. tq.
*Registered and licensed for the road and 100% street legal
*Ran on standard 93 octane pump gas
*254.7 MPH TOP SPEED!!! Set in 1988
*To this day the FASTEST STREET LEGAL CAR EVER PRODUCED
*Only one produced was donated to the Corvette Museum

So to conclude, my point again is that ANY CAR that is built right can massively exceed the restrictions that the manufacturer puts on it, even on american cars The Sledgehammer produces 154 hp per liter, not bad for the bowtie boys from Bowling Green. Ohh and BTW my car can do 0-60 in well under 4 SECONDS...

 

Mmm.... the Sledgehammer... I think I would orgasm if I sat in that. I did get a short ride in a Calloway Corvette, way back in the days of the Corvette Challenge.

 

40 psi and only 880 hp? seems a lil low to me...

 

Not really, when you think about the stock L98 motor produced only around 265 hp. 620 HP over stock is low? Besides the Turbo's came on in stages not all at once. The total boost produced was 40psi, however was probably not likely to get 40 psi all at one time. Reagrdless, for an american Cast Iron block to beable to handle this much HP/TQ is simply amazing.

 

going backwards tryin to clarify...the ford SVT lightning is supercharged...and i think makes less than 100hp extra....
second relatively stock vettes on the street are faster than 5.0 0-60 and low to mid 13 1/4's this is a question ,but, meant this is what i belive the cl-S w/SC will achieve if you can get it to hook up...