1st timer

Can Switch To Synthetic Oil After 53000km?

Bear2Day

Yes, you can.

fsttyms1

yes, i switched at a little over 100,000 miles.

Type-S1

Sure can.. Once you switch you can't go back..

fsttyms1

thats not true either. in the early days with synthetic you couldnt but with the newer formulas its safe to switch, but why you would want to is the question.

Type-S1

hmmm.. I've heard that synthetic has ingredients that expand the seals to prevent leaks...if you switch back to regular the seals shrink a bit causing oil burning?

Thus switching back is not a good idea?

Severin

Switch all you want. It had more to due with the car than the oil. I wouldn't switch to synthetics in a '79 LeSabre with 200K for example.

If your car is leaking convetional oil it is not a good idea to go synthetic; it may leak even more.

AznBalla

Switching does absolutely NO harm!!! I've been running Syn. for about 5 mths. with no problems and I switched at 93.xxx and my engine is as quiet as can be *for now!*

1st timer

i'll be making the oil changes at the dealer,do they have a good synthetic oil?

ou sig

doubt it, but if they do you sure as hell will pay for it.

LowLifeTL

FYI, I was told by my mechanic that although Syntec oil is good, it chews out rubber. Meaning your seals, leading to leaks... He says it's great if your running constantly a race motor on a strip and change the oil everytime after opening the motor but for us daily drivers he doesn't really recommand it. He says stick to Castrol GTX 5w30 and you're good to go. Depending on your style of driving and conditions, change every 4000 to 6000Km. Also keeping in mind the $/L. Anyways it's my 2cents to this topic. Later

1st timer

You gave me something to think about! Makes sense. What part of Montreal are you from?

synoil

Synthetic oil having seal problems was an early issue when most synthetics were
esters. Now I'm talking 25 years ago. All oil blenders do extensive testing to make sure their products don't have seal problems.
Leaking of synthetic oil now is usually from the syn oil cleaning out the crud in your engine that has taken the place of a rotton seal. Once the crud is cleaned out you may have a leak. Usually tightening down the valve cover seals does the trick in older engines.
Craig

edgalang

How often do you get an oil change? Do you always take it to "this" mechanic? Ever thought of getting a 2nd opinion?

FYI: I have a 2002 TLS with 62k MILES. I've been running on synthetics since 15k miles and haven't had a SINGLE drop of oil leak yet and I change every 7.5k miles. After 60k miles, I'll be changing it every 10k. This TL board definitely needs to get educated on synthetics more...so with that said, I'll see you guys @ 100k, changing every 10k and we'll see if my engine is still good.

yield2s

alright here's the answer to that old myth. the syn oil cleans the sludge from your engine that the dyno oil leaves in the nooks and crannies(seals included) so if that build-up is preventing the old oil from leaking out then when you switch that might be a prob(we dont have to worry about this with our engine,, they just dont leak....)Its like old plumbing with a bunch of build up around the fitting, if you get in there and remove all the build up it'll prob start leaking.

Billard

You really should find a new mechanic, synthetic oil is superior in every aspect of a motor oils duties. And the Castrol Syntec is not a true synthetic motor oil, most major syn. brands (penzoil, quakerstate, etc.) offer a partially synthetic oil, that through a bunch of legalities, can label it a fully synthetic oil. Amsoil and Mobil1 are the most widely available true synthetic oils. Synthetic oils would virtually last forever if it weren't for contamination from fuel burnoff, etc.

fsttyms1

you need to find a different mechanic.!!! syn is superior to conventional oil in every aspect! ive been running it for over 40k now and my mileage is up, i can change my oil every 10,000 miles (yes i can, i have had it tested and it is perfectly fine at that mileage, which is severe driving also and i am at 145,000 miles now) easier starts in the winter, smoother running engine. its just plain superior! your engine wont stat to burn or leak oil unless you already have a problem with that already!

MADCAT

Where did u get this info from? I've never heard of this before. I've been using sythetic oil for 15 k now and it works like a charm. Its great piece of mind compared to the normal oil. I use Mobil 1 and nothing else.

I am huge motorsports fan too and if the F1 and LeMans cars run Mobil 1, so am i!

synoil

I've been using synthetic oil since I had my '78 olds Cutlass. Used about every brand, but mostly Amsoil, Mobil 1, and Red Line. I use nothing but Amsoil and Amsoil filtlers now.
There is a new class of synthetics out there now. After much litigation between the true synthetic blenders and regular petro oil blenders the new class is a class III oil which actually has highly refined petro oil basestocks with synthetic very high viscosity index improvers. (that's the additive that makes the 5W-30 a 30 wt when the oil is hot. ) Early tests have shown that the performance of these oils is not far from true full synthetics . (PAO or poly alpha olyphins) They will not last as long though IMHO. For my money and engine I will stick with the true synthetics.
Craig

edgalang

Me too. Specifically the SDF-44 oversized filter.

TLS RULZ

Get yourself some AMSOIL.. I'm running it since 20K... Now I'm at 80K.

Seotaji

synthetic oil is great for long oil change intervals, stop and go driving, and hard driving.

if you do any of those, then the investment is worth it (as long as you keep your car for a while).

i get at least 10K out of mobil 1 and 5k out of the filters.

what you can do is buy whatever syn. and filter you want and have the dealer install to keep your warranty safe. all you have to pay is labor.

Vicman17

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1st timer

i'll be making the oil changes at the dealer,do they have a good synthetic oil?

If you specify Synthetic oil with the dealer, they'll charge you $50.00 + taxes. Just bring your own Mobil 1 jug for $25.00 and pay half. They'll give you a song and dance about how they "don't" recommend 5W30 and use 5W20 instead, but 5W30 Mobil 1 is OK..

TLMugen

My God guys! If there's anyway possible you should be changing your oil yourself, then you won't have some dealer service manager sanctimoniously wagging his finger in your face telling you what oil to use in YOUR car. Also when you do it yourself, you know you've done it right because the person doing the oil change has a vested interest in doing so.

I use the new Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 mixed 50:50 with Mobil 1 0W-30 and my car runs perfectly.

edgalang

Oil Change Intervals

Synthetic Oil Life Study

Mobil 1 Test Results

synoil

hey edgalang, great reading thanks. These should include Nowac oil volitility tests as well. Great Job.

TLMUGEN,
We are not tribologists, those are the real smart guys at the oil blending plant.
I would never mix oils on purpose as each is a highly tested formula in itself for a given use. Adding snake oil additives or mixing dissimilar oils makes me think your a chemest and know more that the guys at the blending plant. Get some oil analysis done and see what has happened in your enging with it's special oil mix. I really would be interested.
What ever I buy, Amsoil, Red Line, Mobil1, they all go straight into the engine as they were engineered to do.
I do get oil analysis done on all my engines, mostly for fun and a little education.
Craig

TLMugen

I would not consider using any of the many "snake oil" products available (actually I am a chemist, an analytical chemist, not organic). Mobil's website addresses oil mixing and what I'm doing is quite safe. Mobil 1 R does not meet API service specifications (currently SM, check the bottle and you'll not see an API donut) mainly due to its high levels of AW additive. There has been concern by some that high levels of P can poison catalytic convertors. There are factors that contribute to this and what I'm doing takes this into account and is safe; note that the M1R bottle contains no warning about its use with cat equipped cars. I figured that by mixing the two oils that have the identical high VI PAO base stocks, the resultant mix has higher than API spec levels of AW without being excessive; I took the conservative approach. By using half the amount of M1R, I saved a little money too. My last oil analysis showed good numbers with 100% Mobil 1 0W-30, so I have no reason to think my next oil analysis on the 50:50 mix will cause me concern.

Street Spirit

fsttyms1 -- i think it was you who said you run your TL under severe conditions by leaving it idle all day --- if it's not too personal: what kind of job do you have that you run your call all day for and accumulate so many miles?

synoil

TLMugen,
I wasn't aware that AW additives were harmful to Catalytic converters. By P, do you refer to potassium? (K), or what exactly.
I do now think you are on the safe side as you mix 50/50 and are not adding additives which actually dilute the oil/additive ratio which I believe shouldn't exceed around 20%
additives, but not sure.
I am an Amsoil fan, but their 5W-20 is a class III oil and I would rather go 100%
synthetic. I am undecided whether to go to Mobil 1 0W-20 (PAO), RedLine 5W-20(ester based), or Amsoil 0W-30 (PAO). I wonder what Acura uses as trans fluid in the 5AT. I would like to change this to synthetic also if it isn't already.
As a chemist and oil maven, what do you think?
Craig

TLMugen

Apparently it's the phosphorus (P) in ZDDP (AW agent) that has been thought to damage catalytic convertors but it has not been proven. API still decided to lower the allowable amount of P in the latest spec to address this.
From what I've heard, Amsoil is excellent oil, especially the Series 2000 (0W-30) because it is PAO base stock, not group III which many don't consider a true synthetic as you alluded to. I would have no hesitation in using Amsoil S2K, it's only S2K's lack of Mo, cost and availability that keeps me using M1 and now with the introduction of M1R in the viscosity I like to use (0W-30), I don't see me using anything else for a while.
The ATF-Z1 that the trans uses is a proprietary blend but if it's like other ATFs, it's basically a light (SAE 20) oil with some detergent, lots of friction modifier and red dye. I think I've heard that it may be a synthetic blend but I'm not 100% sure. Believe me, I've looked into using a synthetic ATF but these trannies are sensitive to the ATF you use; ATF-Z1 seems to work best in current Honda autos.

synoil

Most Amsoil products are pure synthetics. They introduced a 7500 mile series a few
years ago to get quickie oil change businesses interested. All the other Amsoil engine oils and gear lubes are 100% PAO, Ester, or a mix of both to get the best results.
Most have 25K guarantee except the 0W-30 which is 35K.

I'm just thinking of going with the Amsoil 0W-30 as I get it wholesale. Trying to find
Red Line around here is difficult. I have never seen the Mobil 1 0W-20 in any store as it's usually 5 or 10W-30. I'll start looking around.
Thanks,
Craig

Street Spirit

does this mean that amsoil (XLM) XL-7500 Synthetic 5W-20 Motor Oil is *NOT* a 100% synthetic oil?? am hoping i get the answer to this before tomorrow as i was about to purchase it in bulk! --- is the only oil around that i have been able to find in 5-20... if it's between the amsoil 5-20 and a Mobil oil that is not 5-20, which is better --- assuming the amsoil is not 100% synthetic as i thought...

Chet03TL-S

Amsoil XL-7500 5w-20 is not a true synthetic. It is a highly refined conventional oil or known as a Group III. Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5w-30 is made with PAO and is considered a true synthetic or a Group IV oil.

I uses M1 5w-30 instead of 0w-20 that M1 make since the guys at BITOG (BobIsTheOilGuy) forums seems fine that the 5w-30 had better results than the 0w-20 with their UOA. Something about their additive package was better in the 5w-30.

Mobil 1 5w-30 is perfectly safe to use in your car. The main reason Honda uses 5w-20 is for fuel economy increases a fraction per car which helps them for govt regulations on minimal fuel economy.

synoil

Amsoil XL-7500 is one of the "new" synthetics out on the market. It has hightly refined
petroleum base stocks with a newly designed set of synthetic additives which include very/ultra high viscosity index improvers. It is a fine oil and is guaranteed to last 7500miles or 6 months. I have seen the test results of 100% PAO synthetic base stock oils versus the new class III synthetics and the differences are minimal in performance and protection.
The difference mainly being longevity. Those who want to change their oil only once per year or longer depending on filtration and oil analysis should use the 100% synthetic. Racing is another matter.
This oil was designed basically for Honda/Acura/Ford specs that specified a 5W-20 oil instead of the usual 5W-30. This all happened a couple of years ago when the non
synthetic lubricant producers/chemical additive companies invented this very high quality synthetic additive package and insisted it was also a synthetic. All this was litigated for awhile and the
petro guys won because of the synthetic nature of the additive packages in their oil.
So a new "Class III" synthetic oil was created. Class IV's are pure synthetic base stock oils. I know of many Ford/Honda owners who use this oil and love it. It fits perfectly in the genre of people who like changing their oil every 5-7K or twice per year.
I am a person who extends oil change intervals and have special oil filtration bypass systems on my Yukon and boat (Cat Diesel) that literally polish the oil. So I use the pure class IV Amsoil 0W-30. And because I'm nuts I change it twice per year anyway.
I usually have a lineup of folks who want to buy my cars when I sell them.

All that being said I would not hesitate to use this oil as it is excellent. Use a good filter. The Mobil 1 product I believe is 100% synthetic but am not absolutely sure.
Mobil recommends changing at manufacturer recommended intervals whether synthetic or not because they want to sell more oil.
Both oils are excellent. I used Mobil 1/Red Line/ and many others in my former performance cars and they all performed very well. I have ended up as a continual Amsoil user as I believe they are slightly better than the rest.

You must understand that I used to change my oil THEN go to the bar after fights with
the first wife. So I'm VERY particular in what I use. My mechanic thought I was nuts
as did the 1st wife.....<G>

I myself have not decided what oil to put in my new TL when the time comes to change it. Considerations are the Amsoil series 7500 5W-20, Amsoil series 2000
0W-30, Red Line 5W-20, or Mobil 1 0W-20. I am collecting data sheets as we speak and have some time yet to make up my mind.
Confused yet?
Craig

Chet03TL-S

Nice Info SynOil

Street Spirit

Thanks so much for the detailed info, guys --- that was very helpful! Keep it rollin'!
I just called Amsoil and asked if it was 100% synthetic and he said 'yes'. So this is actually true? It's not just a VERY highly refined reg. oil or whatever? Arg.... I was seriously heading to the Amsoil distributor here to pick up 5-20 in bulk within the next two days, but all these threads are confusing me and making me wonder what to do... Get Amsoil 5-20 or Mobil 1 5-30 ? ! ? ! Is the only REAL difference that Mobil 1 claims to last longer between oil changes? Otherwise, they both work equally well in protecting and lubribating the engine? ...And 10 times better than conventional oil?

synoil

Ok guys, remember what oil is. It's a 6 carbon molecule that comes from the ground as a liquid or gas. Synthetic oil was first "described" as a possibility in the late 1800's by
a real smart French tribologist. It wasn't produced in quantity until the 1930's when
Germany, knowing it had very few oil assets, liquified a certain kind of coal to actually make synthetic base stock oil. They were preparing for war. Story is that when outside of Moscow when the temp went waaay down the only German tanks that would start without actually starting a fire under the engine to unfreeze the oil, were
the tanks with the synthetic oil.
After that I believe synthetics were made from extreme purification of regular petroleum. The molecules were smaller, without contamination, uniform in size, and much more pumpable than lesser refined petroleum oil. This is basically why synthetics are better than regular petro oils. It flows under extremes much better, small molecular size cleans the interior of the engine and no, paraffin, and other contaminants in the oil would not sludge et. It's more pumpable, sticks to metal and is a wonderful thing. Synthetic base stocks today come from ethylene gas I believe and is pretty pure stuff.
There are over 2000 different synthetic compounds possible but today the majority are
PAO's (poly alpha olophins), or esters. Amsoil and some other companies blend the diffferent base stocks to get great results without the need for excessive additives

So Street Spirit, I know Mobil requires you to change oil at the regular scheduled time
mandated by the car maker. The Amsoil 5W-20 will last 6 months or 7,500K whichever comes first.
If you called Amsoil and they said it was 100% synthetic then it is. The guys in the tech area are honest. I may have made assumptions about this oil as it doesn't have
the PAO badge on the case. I am just am trying to help out here in the oil debate.
The Amsoil will work fine in your car and you need not worry about all of us who are
into minutia. It's a SL or better based oil so go for it.

TLMugen

Yeah, according to the FTC, Amsoil can say it's synthetic, but that's why I said in one of my previous posts:
The manufacturers will say "synthetic", skeptics may disagree.

Like it was mentioned before, in simple terms, g III is derived from crude like conventional oil, more highly refined but from crude nonetheless. That's why XL-7500 is a little less expensive than their regular full synthetic oils and Series 2000 which are g IV. Group IV basestocks are derived from the byproducts of natural gas (ethylene) so it really has to be synthesized; but that's how they can synthesize the compounds best suited for use as a motor oil basestock and it costs more.

Either way, XL-7500 is still good motor oil and will serve your car well.
I just like using M1 because I've used it for so long. I reckon I've put close to 300K miles on vehicles with M1 in them and they ran beautifully the whole time, they never burned oil and the engines were spotless.
People have put 100's of thousands of miles on conventional oil and wouldn't use synthetics, that's their prerogative so I wouldn't sweat it. Car/engine longevity is based on multiple factors ie.: maintenance, driving habits, climate, etc., not just the oil you use.

If you have a good deal on XL-7500, go for it.

Street Spirit

thank goodness we have some amazingly knowledgeable people here! wonderful!

i just want to make sure i make the right decision with my engine oil.. i don't want to keep switching brands, etc. at every oil change.. want to find something good and stick with it...

i've actually found that Mobil1 isn't too expensive here in Canada... it is $28 for a big jug at Walmart.. however, it is only 5-30... (how much is it in the States?) ..i would've happily gone with Mobil1 if it had been available here in 5-20..

getting Amsoil directly from the distributor here will cost $8.19/quart + tax... the Amsoil people said they only send their products to various dealers - can't find Amsoil at any retailers as of now...
honestly, i only chose Amsoil because it is 5-20, as recommended --- although i know most of you run 5-30... i'm going to get the Amsoil oil filter while i'm there too.. i think that will cost me $18... i'm hoping to buy enough oil and filters to cover me for two oil changes so i don't have to head back over there for a while..

my previous car (Volvo 960) ran on regular oil and we just sold it (still worked) at 278,500 KMs... i finally needed a new transmission, but surprisingly, was still running on a few original parts!! (it was in the shop way too much though!)

since i am making an appt. tomorrow to get a few things done on the car (incl. oil) - i will see if the awesome service guy suggests getting the Amsoil 5-20 over the Mobil1 5-30.... if the 5-20 is *ONLY* to help with fuel economy (ever-so-slightly), than i will get the easier-to-find Mobil1.. i just don't want to void any warranties since they do recommend 5-20 specifically...

synoil

Street Spirit,
TLMugen and I have pretty much given you all the facts and a little history for that part of your personal hard drive that needs occupation.<G> He prefers M1 and I prefer
Amsoil. However I hold M1 in VERY high esteem and would use it in a heartbeat.
Both are great lubricants.
If you call Amsoil you may find that you can become a preffered customer for about $10 US for 6 months. You will get the same prices as a dealer. May save you $$$$.
I have a # you can use to sign up for this if you want.
If going to the Mobil1 I would go with the 0W-20 over the 5W-30. Both give 30 wt protection but the 0W pumps a little better on startup especially in cold weather.
This is also the oil M1 recommends for the Acura.
So enough confusion, either oil will serve you very well.
Craig