etxxz

Facts and my experience
long but worth it

As some of you may think, using SS/Tiptronic mode to cuise around wont do anything to your car...well, YOU'RE WRONG! after an ugly incident this morning (last paragraphs), i was told and described by both the personel @ Quaker Oil Lubes etc and my acura dealership that when using SS too much, downshifting/upshifting/WATEVER, the transmission fluid WILL burn up a LOT FASTER.

We all calculate that this fluid will last for 30,000miles, well folks, if you use SS mode a lot, check it every 8,000miles. *Know that checking is a free service anywhere*. Here's my experience:

I've had the car for 1year and 8months and i've put roughly 9,000miles in it (it was my dad's before, i'm 17) I USED to drive 20-30% of time time in SS in a suburban area. NOT ANY MORE.

This morning, I went for an oil change (72,1xxmiles) in a place where i get 95% of my oil changes, have done some services, and i always take my mom's AND dad's cars there for changes also.
After 10minutes, the mech, someone who knows me, my mods and the 3cars i take there, comes and tells me how my transmission fluid is discustingly burned up, i tell him to show me because he just wants to make money, and yup, it was burnt alright. Then he checks on the computer and it shows that i last changed that fluid @ 64,3xxmiles...i go WHAT?!?!? I say watever change it, CHICHIN an extra $64

After that i talk with my dealership and they go O yeah, that is very common on cars where people use their SS a lot. I also called another mechanic who used to be the HEAD MECH of some acura dealership and tell me the same story in more detals. he now works in a performance shop.

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Facts:
*i dont suck @ shifting since i'm very experienced @ driving manual cars (used to have GTI and drove my brother 3000GT VR-4 for 3months last year..oh, he's 16)
*99% my SS shiftings are smooth and i know when to click so i can redline (delay) exept i let 3rd gear pull untill 6700s (118-120mph) because our 4th gear sucks
*At one point i downshifted to break for lights untill i someone told me not to do it.

So, whats the moral of the story?
Reserve SS for racing only, avoid downshifting and gateshifting as well (by ex-Head MECH)

We might avoind some tranny problems this way, well, not avoid since our trannies HAVE a problem, lets call it Lengthening the life of our transx.

I hope this is usefull to many, and if you know something i dont or didnt write, DO WRITE it, you may save someone's day.

CamLopey

Been curious about this since I bought the car last month. Thanks for the heads-up.
Seems to me that downshifting (especially at high engine speed) would definitely contribute in the premature wear of the tranny fluid.

Tracer

hmm, i use SS in my 99 TL about 70% of the time in normal daytime driving in Los Angeles (the rest is freeway).. never had a problem with burning the fluids... of course i AM on my fifth tranny by now

Tracer

yield2s

your tranny will fail within 5k miles from now. Mark my words.

Mr Hyde

This is useless & misleading info.

If your fluid was burnt, so soon after a fluid change, I would definitely keep a close eye on your tranny like Yield said to. All dead trannies dont necessarily cook the fluid, but cooked fluid is usually a sign of a dying tranny.

Using SS itself Does NOT burn up the tranny.

If using SS causes you to shift more often than would occur otherwise, then yes, you'd get more wear, but thats just common sense. Use something more, and it wears more, and its normal wear and tear components have to be changed more often.

If you use SS, and in fact hold a gear more often than would occur otherwise let say in situations where your car is constantly hunting for a gear, then youd get less fluid wear. It all depends.

You'd do better lessening wear by avoiding city driving, and sticking to rural areas where you dont change gears as often, than avoiding SS.

As far as your shifts being smooth, that doesnt apply at all.

The sport shift tranny is NOT like a manual in regards to slickness of shifts. In a manual tranny you manually change gears, and manually force the synchros to change gears at the exact point you want. That shift can be smooth, or rough, and I am not talking about perception. I am talking about the amount of friction, metal to metal contact, and wear.

All SS does is send an electronic signal to the tranny telling it to shift. A SS shift causes no more wear than a regular shift. In cars with sport modes, etc, they have different program maps that holds gears longer, and downshifts easier. Its still an electronic signal telling the tranny to shift. You cant do the equivalent of a bad shift in a stickshift on an automatic in SS mode. If your car jerks the same way, then your tranny is on its way out.

P.S. Our boards have guys with a pretty substantial knowledge base, and one of those guys works at PAA. This subject has also been discussed more than once. I'd suggest doing some searches here, and over on A-CL.com for more info

LiQiCE

I'm not gonna say that what you're saying is BS ... but there are a ton of people who have burnt transmission fluid who haven't used SS or who have used SS.

Using SS in and of itself isn't a bad thing... But using it to help preserve the tranny and using it to race are two different things. If you're doing downshifts into 3rd at high speed and gunning it ... then yes, SS is probably bad. Of course, gunning it in D5 to drop into 3rd gear is just as bad.

However, if you're stuck in stop and go traffic, and use SS to hold 2nd gear rather than constantly upshifting and downshifting into and out of 3rd ... then thats not a bad thing.

The majority of the tranny problems in our cars is related to the overheating of the 3rd gear clutch pack because it isn't getting enough tranny fluid. Burnt tranny fluid usually indicates that the 3rd gear clutch pack is overheating and probably starting to fall apart. With constant upshifts and downshifts into 3rd gear, you'll quickly send the temperatures soaring in the 3rd gear clutch pack. Acura themselves were able to do it on a test bed in a short amount of time.

So the trick here is to use SS to hold 2nd gear unless you know you'll be moving ... Sitting in stop and go traffic in D5 will cause the car to quickly upshift into 3rd sometimes 4th and then when you stop again you're back down in 1st ... puts a lot of undue stress on the tranny.

etxxz

MR. HYde and Liquice, thanks for the info. Just know what i posted was based on what i was told on my particular case of misusing SS. What i said about knowing how to drive stick was so you guys wouldnt jump all over me saying that the fluid burned because i shift at the wrong points...its all ear and feel. Oh, i forgot to mention i've been racing a lot recently, but no more than once pushing twice a week for a month...no more though.

Tru, you say trannies go because the gear doesnt get enough fluid and if its burned up it will die eitherway.

New moral?
use SS in traffic, dont race as often. D4/5 the rest of the time.

Comet2404

If you ARE experiencing harsh shifts with the burnt tranny fluid, I would continue to use SS and give the tranny a nice hard next couple monthes. Thats what I did, and mine finally clunked out on me at 97K... just what I wanted. It took me 10K miles of hard driving to get the job done, and about half were highway miles. Now I drive it smooth as pie, with the exception of a good race every now and then, and my tranny is doing great now.

fsttyms1

ive been changing mine at every oil change( 10,000 miles). 3 quarts come out and 3 new go in.

etxxz

^^heh, my ideals weren't how to destroy the tranny, that can be accoplished by harsh neutral droppin into gear, it'll take you 10tries, not 10kmiles...i'm trying to clear up when to use SS

FTS, you must've had a bad experience at an oil changing place...you got some dedicated balls also...the reason i dont do it is because i'm very lazy, i dont wanna get dirty, i dont wanna cleanup AND i gotta wait 1hour of draining...nah fuk that! But the most important reason, is because ima VIP customer, it ends 5dollars more...i did the math...plus this duds check pretty much from tire pressure to transmission fluids. while they change my oil.


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BTW-> lazy doesnt mean i'ma fatass, i am constantly playing for school my last 3 years of highschool i swam in varsity swimming team while practicing with FAU's team (FL atlantic university...3hour practices 3times a week), JV soccer winter season and varsity tennis in feb.

PDX3.2TL

Just a little info on going to a jiffy lube or "oil change" joint, unless they are using OEM Acura tranny fluid, I wouldn't let them touch my tranny. I went to Jiffy in Portland, OR and they recommeded changing my tranny fluid due to the same reason. Not knowing any better and not being a part of this forum at the time, of course i am going to take the recommendation of someone who works on cars much like mine all the time. Yada yada... find out after i join a-tl.com it voids my OEM warranty on my $h!t tranny, of course this is after the 15K that i put on with the Jiffy tranny fluid. Change that asap in your garage with OEM Tranny fluid. Takes 10 mins and it will save you a whole lot of grief. Luckily tranny hasn't crapped out at 71K yet.... SHOULD I TOAST IT ANYHOW? now that is a great question for the all of us...

2003TL-S

I have 45000 miles on my TLS and the original tranny, had the tranny fluid changed once at 7000 miles and then at 30,000. Use SS 95% of the time, highway and city, the only time I don't use it is when the car is warming up. I also had the car in for that recall to check for discoloration on the gear, and there is nothing wrong. Not saying the info you got is BS, but not necessarily true. If you were gate shifting all the time maybe I could see it!

Mr Hyde

Actually Id say drive your car the way you please, however you enjoy it. The only real way to prevent wear on a car is to not drive it, and wheres the fun in that?

izzo

used to own a 2000 stratus es w/ss. it burned up from daily use. learned from that. i only use ss on my o2 tl from 1st to 3rd, and only on strait aways when throtteling it. i check the fluid frequently. suggest everybody that owns one heed advice on ss

jayhawk815

I know that SS mode is fun and all, but many people have recorded slower times using SS mode as opposed to using D4/D5, including many competent publications. Not trying to get off on a tangent from the original thread, but I don't understand why a lot of members here use SS mode to race, unless you feel, hopefully with proven results, that it IS faster to use SS mode. My $.02.

etxxz

^^ D4/D5 doesnt always redline, sometimes it goes over and sometimes it shifts 200-300rpms before, by using SS, *IF* you got the feel from previous experiences you'll redline...and in the case of '99's D4, its the computer will shift at 112 as oposed when i let it rev a bit and shift close to 120, notice how 4th gear will take 2hours gettin from 112 to 120.

spl1011

Sounds to me your tranny fluid burned becuase of your abuse on the vehicle!
I use SS a lot around town and my fluid is still rosey red, not brown. I have put almost 20k on it without a change.

Oh, and how can you say your shifts are smooth when using SS?? The computer rev-matches the engine for each gear change = you dont do shit except mash the pedal.

I think folks in SS tend to let the engine run faster than it needs to. You dont need to be in 2nd to go down a 35mph street, unless you know you are going to stop quick.

I didnt read the other threads, but the first post had my fluid boiling.

Oh, and make sure they are using good fluid in the tranny. These oil change places will use whatever shit they have in liquid form, and some of the grease monkeys there scare me (not saying your mechanic friend is one).

etxxz

heh men, i've drive my TL for 9000/72000miles, i dont think i abuse of it, and neither did my dad since he just drive on highway for 1hr everyday for 3years. And you dont need to be a computer to know when to shift, would become more like HEARING when to shift.

And i hope, for the good of mankind, that nobody does this: "folks in SS tend to let the engine run faster than it needs to. You dont need to be in 2nd to go down a 35mph street, unless you know you are going to stop quick"

And the place i went to is Quaker State Oil thing, they got everything for honda/acuras jeeps you name it...and they know what to do...

peace

badazzTL

you change ur oil at 10K?? damn thats pushing it. i thought changing it at 4500 w/ synthetic was bad

etxxz

and you're right...2500-3000mi is the usual, anything past that start to be bad.