Fiddler

Well, today Me (accord V6), Zodiak(TLS), ProjectQuattro(S4) and a friend of ours w/ a 323 went to englishtown to run some 1/4's and just to check it out... well the thing that sucked is we couldnt race against one another cause you're assigned a number and have to be in your lane... but oh well .. we got time slips!
so here's the break down ....
i had AWFUL reaction time ... the first run, it was bad .. the second run i didnt even notice when the lights started going down ...
first run:

r/t: 1.010
60: 2.687
330: 7.276
1/8: 10.930 @ 68.14
1000: 14.068
1/4 16.754@ 83.90

ok .. in my defense ... i got a check engine light, a small oil leak, need an oil change and was running on regular gas.. ok ok .. i know thats bull that time is about right for my car i think .. the r/t definitely could improve

second run:
r/t: 1.345 (whoa)
60: 2.715
330: 7.293
1/8: 10.941 @ 68.64
1000: 14.080
1/4: 16.753@83.84

so there you have it... I need a faster car , and i need to wake the hell up. I'll have pics in a couple days.
As far as the competition (so to speak).. Zodiak got about 1 second faster consistently .. The 323 was slower than me by about .4 and the S4... hmm i forget what he got but I"m sure Zodiak will be posting more about this so you'll finally have some real TLS times ...
just as a comparison .. with a GTech Pro, I ran 15.8-15.9 consistently... (i suppose it works out if you take off 1sec+ for my crappy r/t)


Zodiak, ProjectQuattro - comon guys .. you should be home any minute... i'm expecting a full folowup

XEPOBO

well.. what can i say, it was fun.. i am way out of theses guys leagues with my wimpy 170 HP engine but my stats where:

r/t: .690
60: 2.948
330: 7.609
1/8: 11.332@ 66.29
1000: 14.504
1/4 17.176@ 83.83

did not do the second run. have a busted rear shock/assembly (going for service today 7:30am ) plus had to give the helmet to ProjectQuattro(S4) who returned his after first run

anyway... 330 in a year.. :p

ZodiakTL

Well, i didnt feel like typing it, so i just uploaded the slips. a couple of thoughts:
My first run (first run ever at a track) had a very poor reaction time, and i had VSA off, but forgot to turn my A/C off(dunno how much it matters.) I ran a 15.719 which i thought is pretty poor, considering that TL-S supposedly does 14.7 and I also have headers. However, i also have 200+lbs of stereo equipment in the car, and i'm not too light either, 220+, so i'm sure that contributed to the results partially.

Second run was done with VSA on, and A/C off this time . On the second run, i had a much better reaction time, and i realized after looking at the slips now, that my first run actually had a much better time. If u substract the reaction time from the 1/4 total, i get 14.834, but on the second run, substracting the reaction time from the 1/4 mile time leaves me with 15.047. So even though, technically my 2nd run is faster, i really had a better time with VSA off, and i think that reflects in me having a better 60ft time on the first run.

Unfortunately, i could not make a third run, as it was late, even though we could've started earlier, if someone did not get lost on the way to englishtown in their homestate (Fiddler) ...

All in all, this was a very good experience, but i'm really disappointed with the results i got. But i will go back to do this again. Oh, and the S4 times were 15.42 and 15.46, pretty consistent and just edging me out in the 1/4(partly due to his horrible reaction time of over 1sec.)

oh, in case anyone accidently confuses me with the 11 second car, i'm in the right column on both slips.

Fiddler

hey shut up .. your directions sucked

ZodiakTL

hmm... but i'm not ur computer, and i'm not mapquest, so considering u got ur directions from them, what u say makes perfect sense

shockwave911

was the S4 manual or Auto??

ZodiakTL

the S4 is a manual, and has also been a part of a large discussion in this post:

http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=16988

Guest

a couple of pointers (if you don't mind)
When you're staged, you should concentrate on the last amber bulb. Don't wait until the green light to launch. If you focus on the last amber bulb, and launch as soon as you see it light, you will cut a better RT.
The RT is the time from when the green lights until the time your car trips the et clock. The RT DOES NOT affect your ET at all. You could sit still on a green light for as long as you want, it will not affect your ET. Many people do this when practicing (I know I do) to make sure that I get a perfect launch, since I'm not too worried about my rt's (if you can get anywhere in the high 5's-low 6's consistently, you're doing real good).
I just looked over your timeslips, and you're not doing such a bad job at launching/driving at all. A 2.48 60' time is pretty good, especially for beginner. But, you'll need to get that time down to a 2.3 or slightly better to see the 14 second timeslips you're looking for.
Also, (and I'm basing this completely on my experience here) you're mph numbers are a little low for you to break into the 14's.
I'll use my case as a perfect example. In my first runs down the strip, I was in the low 15 range. I ran a 15.2 and a 15.3, on a 2.4 60' time (horrible on a AWD car) with my mph numbers in the 93-94 mph range. That type of mph number is indicative of a car that has a lot of HP but isn't getting it to the ground effectively. Once I adjusted my driving style, I was running 14.6-14.7's at 95 mph.
As a general rule of thumb, your ET tells you how well the driver drove the car, and the MPH will tell you how much HP the car is making throughout the run. In order to run in the 14's you need to be in the 92-93 mph range. What were the mph numbers for the S4?
Just as an FYI here's my numbers for my older Maxima:
15.1@90.45 mph, on a 2.28 60' time.

After I added an ECU and high stall convertor, I ran the following:
15.1@94.96 mph,on a 2.5 60' time.
In the second case, I was simply wasting time in wheelspin, hence the 60' being .3 slower, but I was making enough HP to pull almost 5 mph faster in the 1/4 mile. The car was clearly capable of mid 14's, just traction was non-existent.

Now, for the good part
You can do several things. First off, I would suggest letting a little air pressure out of your front tires. Dropping them to about 22-25 psi will give you a wider footprint, and may help you hook up much better. Try to increase the available HP of your engine. Let the engine cool off fully between runs. By this I mean after a pass, run the engine for about 2-3 minutes with the heat on full blast. Then shut off the engine, open the hood, and wait for about 45 min to an hour. Not only will this cool off the engine, it will let the transmission fluid to cool, which is very important for longevity and performance. Hot transmission fluid can alter your ET's more than you'd think. In my case, I could never run within .2 of my last run if I didn't cool off the engine/tranny. Once I added an additional tranny cooler, I had no more problems with that. Don't worry about beating on a cold engine, even if the engine is ice cold, by the time you make it to the Christmas Tree, the engine will be warm..
As far as weight is concerned, here's another guideline for you. Each 100lbs is worth approx .1 in the 1/4 mile. Remove 200 lbs, expect about .15-.2 improvement.
Also, 10hp is good for about .1 reduction in the 1/4. Add 20 hp, expect about .15-.20 reduction.
Last but not least, you'll have to experiment. Revving all the way to redline may not be the quickest way down the 1/4 mile for you car. You've got to experiment, and on the back of each timeslip, write the notes explaining exactly what you did on that run.
With a FWD car, you will need to get some wheelspin at the launch. I have read that the best acceleration/deceleration runs occur with approx 5-10% wheelspin. (dunno where I read that) but even the best ABS systems allow for the wheels to lock ever so slightly (hence all the howling you hear, not the constant chirping, but the constant howl that you hear in an all out ABS stop) If you can launch hard, with just a touch of wheelspin to get the car off the line well, you will drop your 60' times. Which is important, because every .1 you can cut off your 60' is worth almost twice that on the top end of the track.
Good luck, and with practice your et's will plummet like the stock market last fall....
Just for kicks, here' s my timeslip from last season. Some people tend to think that I'm BS'ing them

Guest

Zodiak, you are a bit off my #s. They are 15.402 for the first run and 15.481 for the second. The S4 is manual. My launch was at 2k-3k rpms, it only has 1400 miles on it so I didn't want to launch at 5k-6k as the silver S4 did, which was there yesterday too. My reaction # is high, probably due to my motorcycle accident few years back hehe, r/t = 1.1 If calculated as Zodiak 1/4 - r/t + higher rpm launch, I get right to the magazine 1/4 #s at 14.1 Well, I can not say that I am happy with the results, but I am pretty sure I will get better results when my car has around 5K miles on it and I will feel more comfortable launching at 5k-6k rpms, oh and maybe with the MTM chip that gives extra 60 horses and 90 tourqe hehehe

P.S.
Silver S4, stock, was doing 14.8sec 1/4 mile launching at 5k-6k

XEPOBO

I dunno if anyone noticed, but JimW's slip states that it was 42F at the time of his run..

Our temp was 78F, u think it could make a diff?

Guest

Thought I would throw in my .02 Cents.

JimW is right on the ball with most of the statements. There was a little I objected to but oh well. To get into the 14's you need a better 60 foot time than a 2.3 (for low 14's anyway, high 14's a 2.3 is good) I ran a 14.942 @ 93.98mph (posting slips for you too look at as well, I am having some problems with my FTP server or I would point you to the video I have). I am running .5 and .6 RT's (have been drag racing for awhile now). To keep getting the best times you really need to cool down the engine/intake runner's. Bags of ice with a towel placed on the intake manifold work best, I would also suggest dropping the front tires down to about 25psi and pumping the rears to the max allowed. I doubt that any driver out there can hit the times the magz post. There has been a lot of talk about how they come up with those numbers. They run the car under "perfect" conditions and letting the car sit for sometime between runs (heatsoak is a pain). Hope this helps. I will be posting slips tonight ... problem with server is worse than I though.

Guest

depends upon a lot of things, but every 10 degree drop in temp adds something like 1% hp increase. So a 40 degree temp drop is something like 4% power increase.
Also, in the case of my car, once below 50 degrees, the ecu starts retarding boost pressure, to prevent to much of an increase in power.
I have some timeslips from late summer last year, when the temps were about the same as yours. I ran the same times, that's the reason I went back in the late fall, to see whether the cooler air would make a difference.
I'll be running next weekend in Md, this will give me the chance to see if the mods that I added made any difference.

AzNTL

what is the 1/4 mile for a TL-P?

ZodiakTL

Jim,

Again, thanks for all the advice. I will definitely keep trying. I also just spoke to my boss , who used to drag muscle cars back when he was in the Navi(and pretty much had immunity from the cops.) He had a couple of interesting things to say, but one specifically regarding tire pressure: only lower pressure in wrinkled side slicks, as that gives them more grip. With radials, if u lower the pressure, they tend to go into a W shape, where the center of the contact patch will bend into the tire in the center, actually eliminating a part of the contact patch. So his advice with radial tires is to pump them up to highest recommended pressure.

any thougths on this? (i'm not saying neone is right or wrong, just gathering as much info as i can)

BNut

After making about 50+ runs, I consider myself a track veteran and I just wanted to point out a few misconceptions about the timeslips.

Your Reaction Time is NEVER calculated or added into your Elapsed Time. NEVER EVER EVER! Don't feel bad though because most people make this same mistake. In order to improve your reaction time, try launching when the last yellow light comes on. By the time your car starts moving, the green light will be on.

Temperature AND Humidity greatly affect your time slips. Always bring a hygrometer to the track with you so you can measure the relative humidity and the temperature. You need this information in order to fairly compare time slips with other people. Someone running a 14.5 at 20' above sea level in 60 degree weather with 10% humidity can NOT be fairly compared to a 15.0 at 500' above sea level in 80 degree weather with 70% humidity. There are calculators you can use that take all these factors in account and adjust time slips accordingly.

Altitude also affects your time slips. The closer you are to sea level, the denser air is. This helps improve power since their is more oxygen within the same volume of air.

Always let your car cool down BEFORE making any runs at the track, and AFTER every run you make. Pop the hood open and remove any plastic covers that are on your engine. Also a bag of ice placed on your intake manifold does wonders for helping your engine cool down much quicker. (Remember the old saying, heat rises?) Also it doesn't hurt to run your car for about 30 seconds every 5 minutes to move cooler coolant around the engine. If there are long lines to run, push your car through line so your engine does not heat up before you get to the staging area.

Unless you are having traction problems don't monkey around with your front tire pressure. This will just cause more drag when you are at higher speeds going down the track.

Try concentrating on one technique at a time. Starting out let your transmission do the shifting and just try to perfect your launch. Experiment until you find the right RPM to launch your car at. Once you have that down, then try experimenting with manually shifting your gears in SS mode.

Guest

Zodiak TL:

I have tried several different things to improve track times. After playing with tire pressure I know the best (maybe just for me) is 25psi in the fronts. Thing to do would be to bring your own air tank and pressure gauge and run different psi runs. This way you can get the right setup for you.

I don't think anyone has talked about the burnout box but I know I always drive around it. Only if you have slicks should you be doing big smokey burnouts, sure they look cool but with radial tires it isn't going to make a differance. For anyone just starting to drag there is some really good info up here.

Most importantly (I think) is not to worry about what the guy/gal next to you is doing. Just focus on what you are supposed to be doing

Guest

I hear what your boss is saying, but I can only tell you what has worked for me. For me, lowering the tire pressure to 23lbs worked very well. My old Maxima came with steel wheels and wheel covers. They weighed 46lbs each. Once I switched to my lightweight 16's, the wheel/tire combo was just under 40lbs. I also proceeded to blow away the 16's. (225/50/16's as compared to 215/65/15's) My best 60' on the 15's was a 2.38, my best 60' on the 16's was a 2.42.
Then I lowered the t.p. to 23 psi (as opposed to 32). My 60' dropped to 2.31 average with a best of 2.28.

I can only tell you what works for me, so any advice I give is what I've learned and applied to my racing.
All in all, I've got just over 100 runs in (on about 4 different cars) so I'm pretty well experienced.

JYOO

Damn you TL people cant drive!!! :p Am i the only person that got a decent time for my car and mods I have? Our cars are auto tho, maybe something is wrong with your cars.

That TL type S with header should be atleast 14.5 right?

JYOO

Also, every 100 pounds lost equals -.1 in ET, according to a Drag racing magazine.

DragonTL

It sounds as though you guys had fun, but with a little disappointment in your results. As other people have mentioned, it's all about the atmospheric conditions, which results in different times for your vehicles.

60' ft. times do not solely decide on whether or not you are bound to run 14's, because if your car has a substantial power to weight ratio the car will pick up speed throughout the quarter to compensate. However, if you do have lower 60'ft. times, then you are most likely to run your best times. I say this, because cars with manual transmissions have an advantage over automatics, because they are able to access the higher power and torque band at the start.

Anyhow, the times that you guys received from that track seem to not be so accurate. If you were to try a different track under different conditions, then you are bound to see a noticeable difference. As for the S4, unless your car doesn't have a intercooler, the atmospheric conditions do not affect your results as much as the naturally aspirated cars, since your car is pressurized. I would probably blame the driving more for your times than the conditions of the track (no offensive). For instance, my cousin ran his GS-R at the Ennis track here in Dallas and he ran a 16.7 and I ran his car and ran a 16.0. I am by far a more experienced driver than he is and that is why I ran a much better time.

I'm sorry to say this, but I am a lot more relieved to here that a TLS w/headers ran a 15.7. I'm sure you time will be much better, because I ran a 15.7 with a 2.41 60ft' time, if I can remember correctly. HOwever, as the night grew colder, I noticed all the cars running to get better times. I'm sure I would have noticed a difference if I ran again towards the closing time when the air was cooler.

Guest

think of them as a baseline, or a good estimate. You should make it a point to weigh your car after each run.

http://www.prestage.com/

4DR Assassin

What's the track elevation of E-town? You're numbers are kind of far off for a stock S4. Can you post your timeslip? You should be atleast 14.4 or better. The only time I took my car to the strip stock, it ran a 14.1 @ 97.9 at 500ft elevation and in the 80s for temp. I know how to drive it alot better since then, so I think I could get that down to 14.0-13.9. Since I'm not stock anymore, I'm out of luck trying. You don't have to launch at 5 to 6k. I've never launched that high. If you do, you will cause the EDL to kick which will hurt your ET and you will probably start wearing the clutch out and end up breaking something. Try launching around 4000 at the most! If you do a quick slip just right, the car will launch well because you will cause it to build a little boost before you fully release the clutch. If this is done properly, you should be able to 60ft 2.0-1.9 consistantly. It will also save you clutch.....if you slip it too much,.......then you know what will happen.

Good luck and get those low 14 slips.

Fiddler

Zodiak - told you so!

ZodiakTL

ok, u were right.

ming 2.7T_RENAMED

Now I dont know how the TL works at the launch, I will describe the A6 Tiptronic and maybe some things can be used.
I brake Torque and gradually but not slowly press the accelerator till it just barely resting on a kickdown switch( little tranny kickdown switch in A6 Tips) In the A6 you can only hit 2300rpm's, will not go any higher, as the Rpm's are buidling up fast , just as they hit 2200-2300 release the brakes. Dont sit there on the brake and the gas for too long a time.
So on the TL maybe find out what rpm you can brake torque to??? As the Rpms are building up , release just as they get to that particular spot. The engine is revving up and not sitting there and should take out like you've been rear ended by a truck!!! DO you know if there is a set limit you can reach while braking?? Just wondering.
WIth the Tip A6 chipped I get
60' 1.981
330' 5.833
1/8 9.004
1/4 14.027@99mph

If you can eek that 60' time down to the 2.2's you have a great shot to the 14's based on how your car runs the 1/4. Also try it in drive mode only and dont use the shifter. Might help out also. You have the HP, just gotta unload quicker at the start.
Oh and Jim W knows his stuff on the drag strip, pretty incredible times for a stocker, although he cant take credit for taking a water bottle to spray the intercoolers!!LOL

Nate

Damn I can't wait to run my car! I should be able to take a stock Type S... maybe a TL-S w/ headers? I dunno... I'll, of course, post my times!

ZodiakTL

Nate,

I think a lot of people would be interested in what kinda times u can get with a modded TL. I'm pretty interested as well, since I never got to run a stock TL or even a stock TL-S yet.

Nate

Especially down here at sea level.

Guest

I'll be making some runs next weekend in Md. At 75-80 Dragway. I'm sure it'll be hot and 75-80 is notorious for being a slower track than many others. (there is actually a slight uphill incline from mid track to the lights!!)
I was told to expect to run .1-.2 slower than my normal times. Compared to E-town, I'll probably be about .3-.4 slower. But, because of all your incessant hammering, I WILL BE SPRAYING DOWN THE INTERCOOLERS AND REMOVING MY FOGS... LOL!!

I'm about to give up the 1/4 mile action, but before I do, I want to get as close as I can to 14 flat with minor bolt-ons.
All that I plan to add is a true dual exhaust..

mgothers

Jim,
If your in NY, what brings ya down our way to the 75/80 ?
What night will you be there and what are you running?
I'll be there tonight, I've actually never gone, just going for the first time to see what it is you actually do and try to learn how to do it. I don't expect to get times of what my car can do being it's my first time, but gotta strat some where.

matt

Guest

next weekend there is a NIRA event there. There's also a Maxima natiowide meet there (they call it Maxus)
I'm an ex-Maxima junkie, and those guys are buddies of mine. I still post on their .org site.
I'll be heading down there to hang with them for the day (7/28) They will also be having a bracket competition amongst those in the group. I will participate (naturally) in the non-maxima class...

When my car was bone stock, (and 8k on the odo) I was running 14.4-14.5. Now with the slight additions, and the car broken in with 25k, I think I should've cut another .1 or two off that time.

My car is a '00 Audi A6 2.7T 6 spd.

mgothers

You got the car I want bro!! Well, for under 50!
I'm headed there tonight, never ran before, wish me luck.

matt

JYOO

Whatever you do Nate, dont run with your 19's.

Nate

Why not? I'm pretty sure my 19" rim/tire combo weighs less than the stock rims and tires. My 19s weigh 25.125 lbs and there is considerably less rubber on them than on the stock rims, which I believe also weigh 25 lbs.

JYOO

Well i remember seeing TLon19's run a 15.8 and i remeber he has i/h/e, and i ran quicker than that with intake and pullies , so i think it was the 19's that slowed him down.

Nate

I'm sure his Konigs are way heavier than the stock wheels. With my 19s I have waaay more grip - the stock tires suck SOOOO much! I had to put em back on and if I drive like I do with my 19s I peel out at every stoplight and I squeal around every corner! It sucks!

What does everyone else think? Run with the 19x8.0s or the stock 16s?