acrite

i tried the search but their are to damn many post to read through. anyways, i was wondering if any of u have used racing gas (100+ octane) in your rides? if so, does the car require tuning or can u run a full tank of racing gas w/out worry? also, any decrease or increase in gas mileage?

SaNJoSeTLRydEr

im not sure...but ive heard that people pump 91 then they add some kind of mixture in to make the gas better...but im not sure..anyone correct me if im wrong..also..heard poeple go to the small airports to get 100+ gas..but only heard it...neva done it before...

bigA

iTrader: (1)

Save your money. There's really no benefit to running a higher octane gas than what your car requires. The higher octane rating means that it's more "resistant" to pre-ignition or pinging. The only time race gas is really necessary is for forced induction (turbo or supercharged) or your engine has an extremely high compression ratio. The higher the boost, the more likely pinging is to occur. So unless you're running a good amount of boost, stick to the pump gas. If you want performance, spend your money elsewhere.

fsttyms1

with out having serious mods (like FI) there is 0 reason to run it. you will not see any preformance from it.
1 more thing to watch out for is getting the right type, alot of teh 100+ is leaded fuel which is a no no for our cars

NJ Aegean 03

^^^Agreed...

You also have leaded and unleaded gases. As far as I'm aware, 100 octane is the highest rating before the gas contains lead. Racing gas that contains lead will also greatly reduce the life of the oxygen sensors in newer cars. If your car is still equipped with a cat-con, the heat generated from leaded gasonlines will, over time, melt the ceramic honeycombs inside.

You won't benefit from using anything higher than 93 octane, so save the money!!

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Correction -- 94

fsttyms1

where available

fsttyms1

where available

NJ Aegean 03

I know that Sunoco has 94, but for the extra 10 cents / gallon over 93, you're just throwing your money away

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Not necessarily.

My fuel mileage went up significantly on Sunoco 94, and it's usually the same price as or within a few cents of Mobil and Shell 93. I calculate and keep note of my fuel mileage at every fill-up, and although I don't have the exact numbers, the extra money I spent on 94 definitely paid for itself and then some with higher fuel mileage.

fsttyms1

could be just the brand too. i can get better mileage out of 91 from a station down the road than 93 at a station by the hwy, but my regular station i go to has 93 and i get better mileage with it than the others

progz

agree...sounds weird but I get better mpg from Costco compared to Shell

MegaKillTron

we have 93 here NW was 91

NJ Aegean 03

I've tried 94 vs. 93 with no change whatsoever.... maybe it just varies from car to car?!?!?

FiftyFive

high compression all motor applications would benefit from high octane gas too, but the largest increase are show in turbocharged vehicles

paul_huryk

Higher octane gas does 2 things - it allows you to run more timing (or boost) before detonation occurs and it has more energy per unit than lower octane gas does.

I learned how higher octane gas works about 15 years ago while playing around with Camaros and Corvettes: putting in 100 octane unleaded has 0 effect on a car that has no timing changes and is like throwing money away. If you were to advance your timing 6 degrees (in a car where it is easy to do) and add 100 octane gas, you will probably pick up 15 or 20hp that otherwise you wouldn't have.

Same principle works for boosted motors: maybe you can run 14psi with detonation on 93, but you might be able to run 18psi with 100 octane - more power from the same amount of fuel. Same thing goes for high compression street motors that have to run retarded timing to not detonate on 93 octane - 100 octane will allow you to pump up timing to where it should be. But in 2005, you can run up to 12:1 compression on 93 octane in a Ford or GM small block using technology that is readily available - having to run $5/gallon 100 octane to get 14:1 compression and a 5% increase in power is counter productive.

pca7ggr

iTrader: (1)

I concur with BigA, fsttyms1 and Paul - our TLs run optimally on pump premium - 91-94 octane.

I have an older Porsche with a 12:1 compression engine. While twin-plugged with EFI, the engine does not have a system that will detect pre-ignition and retard the timing (38 degrees at high rpm), so I run a blend of race fuel and pump premium. I buy 112 leaded race fuel ($5.25/gal) and mix it 3:2 with 91 pump premium (highest available in SF Bay Area at 3:09/gal - yesterday's price, who knows what it is today). This mix results in around 105 octane. This car sees mostly track use and dyno test indicate that it is runs best at this octane.

Unless your TL runs hot or is highly modified (higher compression, turbp'd or super charged), anything over pump premium will go out the tail pipe. If you have a strong desire to spend more than you really need to for fuel, send me a check and I will put your name on my Porsche during the event that its using your fuel ;>)

vinovelo

Absolutely. I do use 100 octane race gas....but not in my TL. Where I do in
in my 94 Miata which is supercharged and runs with advanced timming. In
that case it makes a world of difference to add 2-4 gallons to a full 12 gallon
tank. (and I have a detonation detection system in it.....)

Hey! Where are you getting the 112 octane stuff???? I'm getting 100 octane
in the south bay (Capitol Expressway, 76 station I think). It's the only one I
know of.

Thanks,

/Steve

pca7ggr

iTrader: (1)

Steve,

Sears Point has the 112. My local Uncal has 110 for $5.50.

TunedTL

August 27, 2003
“I only use super/premium/performance/ high octane fuel in my Civic DX. I can feel the power…”

This is probably one of the biggest misconceptions in the automotive world, as we know it. Yet, I hear this all the time. For example a close friend of mine who drives a 1996 Pontiac Bonneville tells me that he only uses Chevron 92 octane fuel because “It performs so much better, and my fuel economy is way higher.” This opinion or misconception is not an isolated view to the “gear-heads” that are or think they are car savvy. And the oil companies don’t help the matter by calling their high-octane fuels “Performance” or “Premium,” or whatever they choose. Here is why.

The first thing we have to know is obviously, what is octane and why does it matter? Octane can be simply defined in one sentence: Octane is a rating of a fuels resistance to ignite (evaporative qualities). WAIT A MINUTE! Resistance? That’s right, resistance. To put it simply, the higher the octane, the harder it is to get to ignite. Higher-octane fuel resists burning. Lower-octane fuel does not. Lower-octane fuel is actually more explosive, move volatile, and creates a much bigger explosion then its higher-octane counter-part.

When you go to the pump to fill your car, you generally have three options. Regular, mid-grade, and super. You also see that there is a rating system. It is a sticker posted to the pump next to the octane rating of the fuel that you choose. It generally says something like this. Regular for example: 87 Octane minimum, measured by using the (R+M)/2 rating. What does this mean? The R in the equation stands for Research Octane Rating, known as RON. This is a test that tries to simulate variables that your car would go through on a given day. It is a test using a single cylinder, four-stroke engine that is idling at 600rpm. The fuel temperature going into the engine is not controlled. It is allowed to vary and fluctuate with the temperature of the conditions at the time. The intake air temperature is varied with barometric pressure to simulate the air being sucked into the car from the outside. The timing is set at 13° BTDC. This is done to covert everything to a SAE standard day, which is 60° F, 0% Humidity, and 29.92 inches barometric pressure.

The M in the equation stands for Motor Octane Rating, known as MON. When testing MON, the fuel is heated to 300° F and the intake air is heated to 100° F. The test engine is a single cylinder 4-cycle engine that is run at 900 rpm. Ignition timing is varied with compression ratio. Engine load is varied during test. If you are deciding what fuel to use on a high-compression, high-performance engine, this is the test you would want to use. The RON will always be higher than the MON.

So what does this all mean when you go to the pump? It means that to extract the most from the car that you are driving, you have to use the appropriate octane fuel or the car is not going to perform up to its potential. Either the fuel will burn too slowly, and in many cases not burn completely, or it will burn too fast and out of control. The latter is called Detonation. Normal combustion will take place at a pretty steady rate (for a given rpm and load), when a large amount of the charge burns extremely fast and uncontrollably, it is know as detonation. Detonation can destroy an engine in a matter of seconds. There are a few causes of detonation. Usually it is attributed to too much heat, but that is only part of the problem. Pressure and advanced ignition timing both play a role in it too. Usually when detonation takes place, the detonation occurs on the intake side of the chamber, which is the coolest side of the chamber. This happens because detonation did not occur until the pressure got excessive, which was after the spark. By the time that happened, the charge near the exhaust valve has already been burned. Most of the time, detonation will occur after normal combustion has started. Apart from destroying pistons and spark plugs, light detonation can cause all sorts of other problems, like fatiguing cranks and rods quickly and pounding bearings to death, so avoid detonation at all costs.

Another problem is Pre-ignition (for cars using octane that is too low). When the charge lights off before the spark, it's called pre-ignition. This can happen with or without detonation, but usually will cause detonation in a high performance engine. Hot spots in the combustion chamber are the usual cause of pre-ignition. This is very unpredictable and can lead to detonation, because it will act just like too much ignition timing, but it won’t be controllable.

So this is what happens in cars that use octane ratings that are too low, but what about vise-versa? Generally, the problem with using an octane rating that is too high for your car causes problems that, while not generally as severe as going too low, are still detrimental to the performance and efficiency of your engine. One of the most common problems is lost power. Yes, you read that right, if you use an octane of fuel that is too high for your car, you will lose power. This goes for all the stock or lightly modded Civics out there. Remember when we discussed that octane measures the fuels resistance to burn? Well, this is where that really comes into play in a low compression engine, such as the engines found in 90% of all streetcars. As the fuel is injected into the combustion chamber and the compression stroke begins, cylinder pressure is created. This is vital to combustion as cylinder pressure is what translates into power. When that pressure is not high enough (low-compression), the fuel only partially ignites. This means that there is leftover fuel that has to be expelled through the exhaust valves and expelled through the exhaust. This is bad for several reasons. The first is that this un-burnt fuel leaves deposits and grime all over the cylinder and valves. This robs you of power, fuel economy, and wears engine components pre-maturely. There is also a vital part of any streetcar, the emissions control devices. The catalyst for example often is destroyed by being clogged with carbon and un-burnt fuel resulting from using too high-octane. This results in costly repairs, and guess what? The loss of power and lower fuel economy. Not to mention, you had to pay $.20 more per gallon just to lower your cars potential and performance. So you guys that think that adding 100 octane race gas to your Civic Ex at the track is going to improve your times, you are running in the wrong direction unless you have some kind of forced induction such as Nitrous, Turbo, or Super Chargers.

So the next question people ask is, “Why then do high-power, ultra-fast cars use high octane fuel?” Well the answer is simple. Higher-octane fuel contains more POTENTIAL energy but requires the higher heat generated by higher compression ratio engines to properly condition the fuel to RELEASE that higher potential energy. Here is the general rule for choosing octane if you have a question of what it should be. If your compression is 9.5:1 or lower, 87 octane should be plenty. As your compression rises, so should the octane that you choose.

Remember that there are variables to everything in life and this is no exception. If you have dramatically advanced ignition timing for example, high-octane may be needed. But for the vast majority of the people on the street, for optimal performance in your streetcar, use the octane best suited for your car, and remember, high-octane does not mean more power!

Coby Burns (Writer of above topic not forum poster)
Found this at http://www.speedupgrade.com/articles...92608/5136.htm