I have a 1999 TL and I love my car. I am very excited about the 2002 TL Type S and happy for those that have already bought one and will buy one soon. My time will come for the 2003 model when I get more miles out of my 1999 ;-). I'd trade in my 99 TL for the Type S immediately if I had the chance.

However, people on here are already nitpicking & complaining about this and that about the new 2002 changes, but we all know the Type S is clearly a better car and has now made the other TL the base model.

Maybe some people just can't deal with that. Having a TL Type S reduce their cars (including mine) into base models.

The TL Type S is still the best buy in it's class. A high performance sports sedan fully loaded in the mid 30's price range. I remember when buying my new 1999, I paid close to sticker, because even if shopped elsewhere, such as Lexus or BMW, I couldn't come close to sticker price for the fully loaded Acura. It's was the best deal at the time, which I am sure even at sticker the TL Type S as compared to others that have the same features is still a good deal.

I guess what I am saying is be happy with what you have now and plan for your next buy, but also how can you even contemplate buying a base TL now with the Type S available. If it's money issue, I understand, if it is not, then no reason not to buy the TL Types S with NAV as opposed to the base model.

This is the best TL website in existence!

 

Sorry bud, but Until Acura decides to work with us on the price, expect some complaining about "Little nitpicky" things.
The reason people were able to put up with them before is because the price was such a great deal.
Now at $34,000 it ain't such a bargain.
I'm in the market to buy so I'm going to be pretty picky.
I've got it down to BMW and Acura with Lexus and Infinity still simmering on the back burner. I'll have no trouble walking out the door if the guy tells me to pay MSRP and doesn't want to throw in niceties like 1 years free maintenance/oil changes a Spoiler etc.

 

I posted this elsewhere, but as somebody considering a new TL, Here's what I think of the new TL-S...

There is no QUESTION to me... no offense, but there is just NOT ENOUGH with the "S" to warrant spending the extra $$$. You can get a 2001 TL right now w/o nav. for $26,000. A new 2002 "S" is what? $32,000? How can you justify spending $6,000? Plus the $3,000+ in depreciation 2 years from now because you put all those miles on a 2002 you drove for 3/4 of 2001? If you trade the S or Regular 2002 TL in 2 years, you're talking almost $9,000 in depreciation. It's not THAT much faster... we're not talking going from 100hp to 300hp here. And you can do the suspension/wheel mods for a LOT cheaper than $3,000. To each-his-own, but I'm willing to give up the memory seats and 6-disc and get a brand spankin' new TL for $26,000 (with free oil changes for life). That's just me.

 

Look, i'm getting pretty annoyed by all the negative talk about the TL-S. i've been waiting for this car for some time now, and i just want to stop hearing all this BULL**** about how the price is too high, the grill looks big, i hate the "black wood", i'm not going to pay MSRP, cheap interior materials...just stop all that sh*t!! i think this is the best car out there quality wise and value wise, not to mention performance too. so if you guys that can't stand paying MSRP, and hate the way it looks, try keeping it to yourself. and don't bicker cuz you have an older model...just live with it, cuz I don't want to hear it.

------------------
98 Lexus LS400
Soon: TL-S W/Nav

 

Sorry but you're wrong. I can get a 2001 BMW 330i with the Sport Package for under $34,000.
It's a DAMN nice car too.
Why should we bend over for any dealer when there is competition out there for our business.
I like Acura. I appreciate their cars. I just don't want to be lied to about the demand for a particular car.

 

I agree with jmatero. I paid just over $26,000 for my 2001 TL, and I can safely say I am not sorry I saved $6,000 by not waiting for a Type-S. Sure it's better! It, should be for that price!



------------------

 

A BMW 330i comparable equipped to the TL cost over $40K. At $34K you're not getting a CD player, leather, power seats, sun roof, etc. Go to BMWUSA.com and price it for yourself.

 

CarsDirect has the 330i similarly equipped to the TL-S for 40K for a 5-Speed, 41.5K for the automatic - both without navigation. Let's see, 35 less horsepower, a ton more money spent in maintenance, a much smaller car - all this for only $8K to $10K more than a non-Nav TL-S! What a bargain!

 

SteveB is right.
BMW and Mercedes are wonderful cars, but they are just NOT in the same price range as Acura, no matter how much you want to think so. And, as I've said in another post, put a few options on a new C320 and you're approaching $50k. A friend of mine priced one. And I sat in it - beautiful outside, but small and crappy looking inside. No, thanks..

 

Well, if your saying how the BMW 330i is so much better and you can get it for cheaper why don't you head on over to the BMW webforum and quit your B*tching on this one.....

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by DougTL-S on March 16, 2001 @ ]</font>

 

Doug's feeling froggy today I see!

I didn't say that you could get a similarly equipped BMW for under 34k. I kindly said you could get a 330i with the SPORTS PACKAGE for under 34k. That's not MSRP. That's the price it can be obtained for. Also throw in the years worth of maintenance...
Again, that does not mean it is comparably equipped to the TL S.
My comments are germane to the TL S and that is what this forum is for so I don't think heading over to the BMW forum is necessary. I appreciate your guidance though.
I've driven the TL and the BMW and the Lexus IS300 and the Infinity. I liked the TL since I'm price minded. THAT was their edge in my opinion. I have @ 30k to spend. It's all cash. I don't want to waste it and I don't want to be taken for a fool. Again, Acura's edge was the price. I don't see that edge with the pricing of the TL S right now. Maybe you do.
If you want to waste your money by spending more than should be paid for something simply because of some unsubstantial economic theory, fine, go ahead. That's what makes the world go round...
I got some stuff for sale you can have too.

 

If I were buying a TL-S to help the economy I would probably have to rethink my actions considering all the $ goes back to Japan.

 

What edge don't you see? And how is the TL-S a waste of money? Even at the MSRP of 31,710, the TL-S is STILL a great value. You keep referring to your 330i comparison. For the price, you CAN'T compare. Let's break it down:
BMW 330i: 33990
sport package: 1200
leather: 1450
5 sp. steptronic: 1275
sunroof: 1050
power seats with memory: 945
heated front seats: 500
xenon headlights: 500
'single' CD player: 200
GRAND TOTAL?????----$41,110
add navigation (which sucks) -- $42910

And that's for a car that's 'comparible' to the TL-s. 10 grand is not chump change and is, in my opinion, a waste of money.

 

It's really very simple. All I am trying to say is that for the $34,000 Acura wants for it's TL S with NAVI, I can go and get a BMW 330i with the Sports package for just under or around $34,000.
I break the price of the BMW down as follows:
Invoice MSRP
Base Vehicle Prices; $30,750 $33,990
Optional Equipment; $1,020 $1,200
(Sport Package: Sports electrically adjustable driver and passenger seat with height adjustment, lumbar adjustment, thigh support, four adjustments and tilt adjustment, Rear and front tires with 225 mm tire width, 45% tire profile and W tire rating, Sports steering wheel, Side body skirts, Styling 68M Wheels,Front and rear alloy wheels with 17 inch rim diam and 8.0 inch rim width,Sport alternate suspension)
Total; $31,770 $35,190
Now Acura wants us to pay MSRP of $34,000 for their TL-S with NAVI and BMW has an MSRP of $35,190 for the car described above which includes a years worth of maintenance. No way will you pay MSRP for the BMW though and I know I can get it for just under $34,000 and maybe even better.
BMW is a darn good car and the styling is second to none inside and out.
Acura is no slouch in the engineering department but lacks a bit, shall we say, in the styling department.
It's a trade off to some degree.
The bottom line is that if Acura wants to demand MSRP, they have to be crazy! That is what you do when the buyer has littel or no other choice!

I'm pointing out that there is indeed a choice. This is only one example.
Certainly there are others.

 

Thank you. I've been saying this for the past week. Go buy your BMW, Mercedes, 01 TL, Taurus or whatever.

You'd think paying MSRP was a freaking mortal sin. If you don't want to pay... then don't. Stop trying to convince everyone else here how much of a catastrophe it is, all you're doing is pissing people off.

 

and i'm one of them!!!
(read previous post above)



------------------
98 Lexus LS400
Soon: TL-S W/Nav

 

As the former owner of a 3-series BMW, I would have to say it is unfair to always load the comparison between the BMW and TL by fully loading up the BMW. Sure BMWs don't have as many standard features, but there is a significant difference in the feeling of driving a stock BMW v. a stock TL that is worth more than an extra auxillary outlet or sunglass holder. For example, in order to balance the comparison, I would throw out the following as unnecessary:

5 sp. steptronic: 1275
sunroof: 1050
power seats with memory: 945
heated front seats: 500
xenon headlights: 500

In fact, how many of you would have paid extra to have a 5 speed manual rather than a 5 speed auto with SS? Of course, the BMW will still be more expensive, but I think that would be a fairer comparison.

 

It comes down to simply good business sense on Acura's part. Think of it this way, who are the peolple right now who are serious buyers of the TL-S (myself included)? These people either really need a car right now, must be the first person in their neighborhood to have "the new thing" or don't want to wait several weeks to months when the price is negotiable. With all the 2001's left on the lots, there is no incentive for Acura to budge from MSRP. By sticking to MSRP for a specified time period they achieve 2 things.
1) They earn top dollar on the 2002 models.
2) They dissuade people to purchase the 2002 models thus making the very negotiable 2001 models much more inviting to the buyer thus clearing out their stock of 2001's.
They have nothing to lose as a company. The fact that the 2002 TL-S is selling for 6K more than a comparably equipped 2001 TL does not mean that the TL-S is 6K better. No way of course! But we are just realizing the very different market environments that are effecting each car at this point in time. We all know that the TL-S will be very negotiable this summer but not with all those 2001's hanging around. Nevertheless, $31,710 for this car is still a good deal!

------------------
95 Integra GS-R Stock

Ordered: 2002 TL-S Aegean blue

 

Exactly my point SC TL.
And Acuraboy, your point is well taken.
I realize that Acura is trying to achieve two goals as you've pointed out.
They have to get rid of the 2001's so they hold fast to the MSRP on the 2002's to steer you in the 2001 direction.
They do take a hit on the reduction in price on the 2001 though so that win/win isn't really that.
Anyway, I appreciate the mature, reasoned responses here.
For those of you that are ticked off... I suggest you ask yourself why you are REALLY mad?

 

When you consider the difference in price of a Mercedes C-240 and C-320 is $7K, and all you get is an increase in hp to 215 and leather seats, the $6K difference between a 2001 and a TL-S doesn't look so bad.
Whether you're paying MSRP or below invoice, if you have negotiated the best available price at that time, you have paid current market value. That's the law of supply and demand. If everyone who wants the car now pays MSRP you are not getting ripped off now. You're paying market. It may look like a hasty or bad decision later, but not now.

 

I don't know, a lot of the items you list above are things I feel which have to be included in a car over 30K. No sunroof, leather, etc.? As far as pure driving enjoyment and all around feel I would agree that BMW beats the Acura. But in everyday circumstances, I would miss all of those "petty" extras. Not to mention the insane maintenance costs on BMW. I will admit though when I can afford it, I will opt for a 540I. At that point, the money no longer makes a difference and I would want the entire package. But now I feel I'm easily making the proper choice on the TL-S.


------------------
95 Integra GS-R Stock

Ordered: 2002 TL-S Aegean blue

 

I'm in complete agreement with this statement. For 2.5K you can match or exceed the performance of the 's'...



------------------
2000 TL - Laguna Green, Navi, Rear Spoiler. PIAA Hyperwhite HB's. 17" CL-S wheels with Bridgestone RE 730 - 225/45/17's. Soon to have Comptech Suspension, Sways & Axle back Exhaust.

 

There are good points made by all. Acuraboy
I think said it best.The one thing I think even Lawrence is missing is that age old thing called comparing "apples & oranges".What if BMW was coming out with a 2002 model 330I-Type S, that was being released early. I would BET anything, they would sell that car for MSRP, negotiate less than MSRP for the current 2001 BMW 330i, 2 move stock of those cars! To compare a current model BMW with another manufacture and newer yr. model just ain't comparing "apples & oranges"!



------------------
2000 3.2 TL Laguna Green
29% window tint, Clear bra, no nav
225/50/16 Aqua-Flow GTW's on OEM wheels
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/lrpba300?...l=fld3&.src=ph

 

I started this topic and again I have to say, you can soup up your base TL all you want, but it'll never be a TL Type S. That is why save your money now and get a Type S, when the time is right for you.

And all this BMW 330i talk, sure it's a great car and it will always be more expensive than a Type S, but hell that is a small car. For a fully loaded 3 Series, you can get a decent, larger sized 5 series.

TL TYPE S is the clear choice at this moment.

 

I agree with Lrpba300 that there are many good points by all, and would add that clearly each person has to have an opinion on what his/her value drivers are.

As I just went thru this same scenario. My prior car, 95 Acura Integra LS 4Dr White, was totalled due to another driver's stupidity. Looking at what I wanted in a car, the 01 TL was a good selection. I wish I had fog lights, 6-cd, and memory plus the larger grill, but I liked the monetary value of the "get rid of the 01s" mentality of the dealers. The 02's are definitely going to set the next standard, but at prices of a loaded 325 or a modest 330, I would have definitely had to look at those plus the mb line (lexus to me is a solid line but has not turned my head).

The 02 TL-S was a tough call. It called to me. But for me, that ride was a little too much for every day driving, especially the across town (city street) stuff that I do to get from home to work. I simply ranked it value for the dollar for what I need now. As you can tell from the below I'm happy with my 01 Silver TL w/ Navi.

Peace.


------------------

 

My only point (by posting the price differences) was this... If somebody is impulsive enough to run out and buy a 2002 TL-S at full Retail vs waiting even a few months, they are most likely folks who have to "have the newest thing NOW". Therefore, they will also be the first to trade up to the NEXT newest thing in a couple of years. Again, there is the issue of buying a 2002 in early 2001: If you want to trade it in in 2 years, a 2001 TL will actually be worth MORE than a 2002 TL-S because the 2002 TL-S will be considered a "high miles car"... and will take a minimum $3000 hit just for that. NOW... factor that into the fact that you paid RETAIL for your TL-S NEW and you can see how being impulsive has its price. Now, I could see if the car was completely redesigned... in which case people will turn their heads as you drove by and say "look... he as a NEW TL"... but the current car never turned heads to begin with (from a styling standpoint.... very "plain-jane") and the 2002 does nothing to add to it... the body is identical save the new beak. BUT... if the TL-S is your dream car, then there is NOTHING wrong with you spending your hard-earned money on it! Go for it! But for the people with '99 TL's thinking of "trading up" to the 2002 TL-S... you apparently only keep your cars 2 years.... you're going to take a $9000 hit by paying retail on that 2002... minus whatever you lose on the trade to begin with. If that's worth it to you for 35HP and bigger wheels, and you have the money to blow, go for it. I'm not bashing the TL-S... I'm just saying from a financial standpoint, buying now means you're REALLY paying close to $44,000 than $34,000. THAT's why the BMW is direct competition... when you look at the BIG picture they are priced the same right now. If you can, wait until the early summer and you'll be in a better position.

As for the smell of the TL being "not as strong" as the BMW and Benz.... that is understandable since the TL has only leather seating SURFACES... the majority of the seat material is vinal/plastic.

 

They'll bring the price down soon. I drove one today and neither it nor the others were sold yet.
The demand is clearly not as big as some would want us to believe.

 

I just brought home new new black on Tan TL-S yesterday and I'm happy as can be to have gotten such an awesome car for just 32,700. My carpool buddy leased a new 328i 5 months ago and I'll tell you, he'd see nothing but taillights. It's not even close (he has an automatic just like my new TLS). Much more spartan interior too. I love the BMW, I just love the new TL-S twice as much...

Regards
-w

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">[This message has been edited by Webologist on March 18, 2001 @ ]</font>

 

How do the two cars compare in ride (read suspension)?

 

Quite different, both quite firm and tight but the 328 feels lots smaller and cozier. In a tight corner I'd prefer the Beemer, in a sweeper or up hill, the TL-S. Both engines are very quiet and refined in normal use but no comparison when the VTec hits.

Regards
-w

 

Hey Lawrence, you must be 3'5". The BMW 330i has about as much room on the inside as a phone booth. The only BMW that beats the TL-S is the 540il, but with a savings of about $20k, I will take TL-S

 

I'm 6'1" and 200 lbs. I found the 330i to be
a fine fit.
The balance of that car is far superior to the TL.
The straight line speed favors the TL S but not enough that you'd notice in day to day driving.
I'm having a bad time with a dealer right now so I think I'm going to pursue the 330i with more vigor.

 

I currently have an MDX and a 1997 M-B C36 AMG. I'm replacing the C36 with a TL-S next week. After driving the C36 for four years some thoughts on the "German" vs. "Japanese" thing:

- German cars are firm, but is that always good? Not if you drive in Chicago and NY/NJ as I have. I'm tired of having my fillings jarred loose over potholes and expansion joints.

- My C36 can blow the doors off of the TL-S and any non-M BMW. You know what, the thrill of using all of that torque and horsepower once a month isn't worth the 12MPG gas mileage and $1K a month car payment.

- I was first on the list for a 2002 M-B C32 AMG and canceled in favor of the TL-S. This was based on two things: 1) My MDX is an incredibly well engineered and well-built car - I'm guessing the TL-S will be too. 2) After test-driving the TL-S I decided it had enough umph to satisfy my performance craving but in a far more livable manner than a BMW M or M-B AMG. And at about half the monthly payment.

If I lived in Florida, Arizona, Texas, or California where the weather was better and driving more fun it might have been a different decision.

German cars are great under certain circumstances – rough urban driving is not their natural habitat and not what they are best at.

 

Trying to make purely financial comparisons about these cars is foolish. When you're paying this kind of money for a car, it stops being about the money, and starts being about where your passion lies.

 

Ok. This post is gonna be long as hell and perhaps quite Dennis Miller-esque in ranting, but here goes...

First off: If you think the TL and/or TL-S isn't a good deal, don't buy it. Shop the competition. You'll see that there is no better value -- feature for feature, dollar for dollar. OH -- The 330i with Sports Package comparison is ludicrous. Saying you can get a 330i with that package for under $34,000 may be true, but it's lacking tons of features that the TL has and is most certainly not comparing apples to apples, driving dynamics be damned. Part of what makes the TL/TL-S such a spectacular value is the features you get for the money. The 330i, comparably equipped, will run you $40k plus. Even if we toss out the optional automatic tranny, out of "fairness" as it's the only one offered on the TL/TL-S, you've still got a HUGE price differential. End of story. Those are the facts.

Also, you guys have to keep in mind that regardless of MSRP, the actual transaction price of these vehicles (read: what people are really paying for them at the dealer) is dictated by one thing: THE MARKET. You and I. The people who are purchasing these cars. The truth of the matter is that Acura proper is not telling every dealer that they have to sell the cars at MSRP -- dealers are independent franchises that simply doing so because if you don't wanna pay it, there are 5 people behind you that will. I'm not a dealer... this scenario doesn't benefit me... but there's no magic to it. No trickery. Put yourself in their shoes... if you had a limited allocation of an upgraded model of the hottest selling car in the segment, would you be in a rush to discount them? Hell no. Even so, the MSRP $31,710 (non-NAV) is a SUPER strong price in this niche. Considering the upgrades they've made to the Type S, I think the price differential is quite reasonable (versus the TL Premium).

Lastly, while we're on the subject of the upgrades they've made... I see a lot of people *****ing (for lack of a better word) about the changes. Now I know the new front end isn't for everyone (I used to hate it but it's quickly growing on me), but we should be (and I am) happy that they listened to their customers.

We wanted foglights. We wanted the hotter motor. We wanted the 17" wheels. We wanted the Inspire taillights. We wanted the sportier seats. They've redesigned the mirrors for less wind noise (a problem a lot of people have apparently complained about).

If I see one more post about the fog lights not being fog lights at all but "driving lights" or how the wheels are only 6.5" wide versus 7" wide on the CL-S... I'm gonna scream. Or ignore it. One of the two.

------------------
2000 WDP 3.2TL non-NAV

 

Well Said!

 

Many people don't really want or need ALL the options that Acura puts on the TL S. That's why it's not really necessary to compare prices b/w the TL and other cars.
Acura could throw in a toilet plunger and yeah, it'd be another option but does it make the car better than the others? No because you don't really need that toilet plunger now do you!?

Anyway, my point is that if I had a choice as to what options I'd put on my car, I'd probably not take the heated seats, auto dimming rear view mirror etc.

As for the dealers having 5 other behind me to buy... I say poppycock. That's simply not true. Dealers are having to cancel orders due to the stock market downturn. There are plenty of witnesses on this forum to the fact that dealers have TL and TL S's sitting on the lots waiting to be sold. Where's all that demand? There'd be a waiting list if it really existed.

Yes the 330i can be had for under $34,000 and yes it would have fewer options. I don't need all those options though. Many people don't I presume.

 

Lawrence, there must be something about the TL-S that really grabs you. I've seen so many posts from you praising the beemer, but yet you are still frequenting the boards here. What's holding you back from buying the 330i?? They are both great cars, so it comes down to personal preference and features that you are looking for. Both have advantages as well as drawbacks. You seem pretty set on the BMW-- i'm just waiting for the "Just picked up my 330i" post. Hey, are you also visiting 330i forums and mentioning the advantages of the TL-S??

 

I was really set on getting the TL S but am getting DEEEKED around by one of the dealers. It's not a big problem though cause I'm not in a big hurry and I've got other dealers I'm working with.
I drove the BMW, Infinity and Lexus IS 300 as well as the Acura TL and S.
I really liked the TL S and would love to get it. I still might.

 

Yup, depending where you are, the dealers can be tough. I'm just gathering all the info from here on the purchases of others to use as ammunition with my local dealer. The dealer where i bought my first Acura originally said they would not budge from MSRP. They called me last night and said they could now give me $500 off.. Yeah right...Still workin' it though. I'll have this car eventually and will get a deal on it.