Edub

All,
I am looking to buy a TL type S in the next week or two.. I have a couple of questions... I love the styling and the lines on this car much more than the CL S, however..

is there a way to increase the low end torque or power at lower RPMS? what can you do? add a chip? if so, who is it made by and how much does it cost.. what does it change the power band?

next.. i know that you can add exhaust and a intake, and that will increase the high end and high RPMs, but will you then loose even more torque? i think that it is at 232lbs of torque around 5500 RPMs... and 260 HP at 6100 RPMs for the HP...

does this car have a true dual exhaust or just a Y pipe?

i am used to driving a stick shift but the TLS doesnt come in one.. so i am wondering if it is really something you miss by getting the auto with the sport shift... i dont know if i can give up my stick shift now...

anyone that can help answer or provide opinions, would be much appreciated...

Thanks!


eric

T Ho

You might get a couple of ft. lbs here or there with a chip and a few mods, but nothing dramatic. Real gains in torque are largely a function of engine displacement. The only way to make appreciable gains are to stroke the engine (i.e. 3.5l upgrade), or use forced induction (like the Comptech Supercharger).
Having said that, the engine and 5-speed trans combo is so rev-happy in the first 3 gears, that I don't really notice a severe lack of low-end torque. With a press of the gas, engine RPM can go above 3000rpm in no time, so it's not an issue.
And, for reference, my "other" driver has 350+ft. lbs on tap from 2000 to 5500rpm, so I'm familiar with torque.

The exhaust is setup as a two-into-one-into-two out back, so yes, there is a Y pipe.
And, if you really can't live without a stick, the CL-S 6speed is your choice.

hemants

Don't be fooled by torque curves.

The VTEC engine revs up to 4000 very quickly.

Torque curves do not show the time dimension.

It is already virtually impossible to launch this FWD car at wide open throttle without spinning tires. Heck, I've even chirped tires in second gear!

r10apple

You don't need an exhaust if you are looking for that extra punch...Your dealer can add Comptech headers and Comptech Icebox, installed, for another $2,100.00. It won't void your warranty and the gains will put you close if not even to a CL-S 6 speed. You'll be eating G35's as well and still cost less. Don't be mystified by the torque numbers. Go test drive the car again at WOT and using the s/s, you won't be disappointed! You can run third to appx 115mph and the top of second and third is where the real power of this car sits...Enjoy!

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

As the others have said... there are ways to increase your HP and torque, but most of the mods out now (headers, intake, etc.) will increase your mid and high RPM torque.

The only surefire way to increase your low-end torque is either the 3.5L upgrade (which is tough to find) or the Comptech Supercharger. I'd recommend the S/C since you can probably keep the warranty on your car if you can get the dealer to install it.

Also, like someone mentioned... on paper it looks like all of the torque is up high... but there is a decent amount of torque down low as well. Drive one and you'll see what we mean. It's next to impossible to launch this car hard without wheel spin... and I too have chirp it into second gear many times.

A418t81

iTrader: (1)

Edub,


The type S actually has 232 ft/lbs of torque @ ~3500 rpms (more tq at a lower rpm than the base 225hp motor, too). I drive a car w/ 310 ft/lbs of tq daily and the TLS has plenty of low end. In fact, its powerful enough that its fairly difficult to start from a stop smoothly or without wheelspin unless you lightly feather the gas

Edub

All,
Thanks for the replies... As for the torque.. the specs on the website state that the TL type S torque is at 5500 RPM, while the CL -S is at 3500-5500 RPM.. is that becuase it is a stick?

CLS:

http://acura.com/models/types_specs.asp?model=cls

TLS:

http://acura.com/models/types_specs.asp?model=tls

Also, I currently drive a legend 91.. and it has 215 LBS feet of torque at 200HP and it is a stick... for some reason it feels more powerful than the TLS, even tho i know that NOT to be true... i was told that the Legend has more of a flat power band and the TLS has more of a curve... so the TLS will do much better on high RPMS and the legend will do better on the overall powerband...
When i drove the TLS and drove it in 1-3 gear.. it hauled butt.. no doubt.. but when i drove it in 4-5 gear.. it seemed to really lag at lower RPMS, but when it finally got up there in RPMS it really hauled some major butt...
So there really arent many things that we can add to the TLS to increase the low end torque.. except for the super charger? So if i dont want to loose anymore low qnd torque, i shouldnt add an exhaust or intake, correct? Unless it is a CAI intake...
will headers only give you more torque on higher RPMs? or lower as well?
arent most if not all aftermarket parts for this TLS interchangeable with the CLS? meaning, if they dont make it for the TLS they wont make it for the CLS either? and vice versa?
I do like the stick shift much much better on the CLS, without a doubt, but i really DONT like the lines on that car... the TLS has much better lines...

Thanks again guys, and sorry for so many questions...

Eric

Pauli

You might want to test drive an Infiniti G35 Sedan, if you really want a torque-y engine with 6-speed manual. Some people don't like the styling too much, but I like it, and man, that is one sweet ride.

A418t81

iTrader: (1)

I'm pretty sure that is a typo. In our hardcopy brouchure it says 3500. I just checked carpoint and a few other sites, and they all say 3500 as well. This coroborates b/c the CLS (which is listed at 3500) has the exact same motor and ancillaries.

All I know is that we pull our new 3 seater waverunner with the TLS and it has outrun some cars on the street even w/ the trailer attached :-P

Hokie D

I agree that the TL-S needs low down torque. I raced an older generation BMW 3 series (325?) this past weekend from rolling to about 65mph. I only had him by 2 car lengths before I let off. Now granted the TL-S will start leaving him after 65mph, I still expected to smoke him worse than it did. The car felt like it needed a little somethin' when I stomped it.

As for the spinning with 232lbs/TQ - blame the skinny front tires.

_________________
2002 Acura TL Type-S
===============
Aegean Blue, Blk Leather
K&N Filter
_________________
1993 5.0L Mustang Coupe
===============
Dugan Racing X-Drilled Rotors
Kenny Brown Subframes
Eibach Pro Springs
Steeda Camber Plates
Baumann Shift Kit
3:73 Motorsport Gears
ADS Computer Chip
Motorsport Pulleys
1.5" Mach I Ram Air Hood
Flowmaster 2.5" Exhaust

Hokie D

I currently drive a legend 91.. and it has 215 LBS feet of torque at 200HP and it is a stick... for some reason it feels more powerful than the TLS, even tho i know that NOT to be true... i was told that the Legend has more of a flat power band and the TLS has more of a curve... so the TLS will do much better on high RPMS and the legend will do better on the overall powerband...

Very true. A flat torque curve is what you want.

Frogger

The gearing has a lot to do with this and not just the power. I think this is because our 4th and 5th gears are basically overdrive gears.

Edub

Does anyone have the specs, just for fun, of the legend gearing compared to the TLS gearing?


so will the chip for the car, change the curve to be more flat? or make it more of a cruve?


thanks
eric

Hokie D

In general, chips mostly affect engine timing which adds 5-10 HP/TQ - how much exactly depends on the car and how conservative the timing was from the factory.

r10apple

Dude...forget your torque gripes if you want this car. Consider it the flaw (or too many of us, the joy) of the newer Hondas which love to scream in the higher RPM range...
I use the s/s all the time and only shift into 5th on the interstate with the cruise control on. If you want to get on it, why would you leave it in 4th or 5th anyway? You wouldn't do it the the CL-S either...You'd be in second or third unless you are going more than 85mph!
And Hokie D, why is being ahead of a Bimmer by two car lengths at 65mph a bad thing from a rolling start? If you are both getting on it, that's pretty strong and you are really just getting into the wonderful range of the car's power? Two car lenghts is pretty strong unless you were in your 'stang!

The G35 is a great, torquey engine but again, you get headers and the CAI and you'll be ahead of that sucker, too. If you want gobs of torque in 5th gear at 50mph, buy a 911 Turbo.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Currrently there is no chip for the car. Well, Jetchip does make one.. but the only independant dyno we've seen showed a very small gain in torque (like 1 or 2 pounds) and loss in HP.

Hokie D

why is being ahead of a Bimmer by two car lengths at 65mph a bad thing from a rolling start? If you are both getting on it, that's pretty strong

We both left the light really softly, and his front tires were just ahead of mine and when I pushed on the throttle a bit, he hit his throttle to stay ahead of me - then we both mashed on it. He was losing ground and he was 2 car lengths behind when I hit 65 so I let off.

I don't know everything about the car I raced as the badges were all removed, but it was an old model, not the current or even the one prior. Looking back at old 325's they are mid to high 15 second cars so I expected with the age of his car + HP deficit I woulda beat him worse. I agree, after 65mph, it would've been a slaughter. Oh well, I still love my grocery getter.

pretty strong unless you were in your 'stang!

LOL! Yeah, I would've been embarassed if I couldn't pull more than 2 cars with the Stang. After 90mph, the Stang starts fizzling out, though.

Ray_Khan

your legend is stick, so it's drive train loss is less than the TLS sicne it's an auto. Keep that in mind comparing the cars.

LiQiCE

With enough money you can increase the low end torque of the TL-S. The 3.5L upgrade is the most obvious choice and keeps your engine all-motor. Parts wise this runs around ~$2500 but finding a reliable installer is probably the most difficult thing. Low end torque and grunt will definitely be increased though. The Supercharger will also give you the same kindof thing, but it will set you back ~$4000 for the sc and some more money for the install. Like others have said, finding an installer, even a dealer to do the sc is probably easier and you can potentially keep your existing warranty.

The third option which nobody has mentioned yet is the Prototype Headers (aka OPAK headers). They are not available yet, but run around $750.00. There was a guy who did a comparison of the Prototype Headers vs. the Comptech headers.. Here's a quote from his comparison based on a dyno:

Link

Here's some detailed info on the headers: Link

And here's OPAK's website on the headers: Link

I don't think the OPAK Racing headers are going to make a huge difference in terms of low end grunt, but it will probably help. The 3.5L or SC is your best bet for upping the torque.

BTW- Check this link on the specs for the TL-S, it says 232lbs-ft @ 3500-5500rpm : Link

Edub

I have checked that link, but the link is pretty confusing about 3500-5500 torque.. only the CLS and the regular TL link says that... not the TLS.. i asked why does the CLS have this range, but the TLS doesnt...

here is the difference in the links.. and they are from the same web site.. Acura.com... so what is right and what is not.

TLS
http://acura.com/models/types_specs.asp?model=tls

CLS
http://acura.com/models/types_specs.asp?model=cls

TL
http://acura.com/models/model_specs_index.asp?module=tl

they must have a typo on that first link.. since my third link contridicts it..

i have the 2003 brochure and it doesnt state either 5500 rpm at 323.. or the 3500-5500rpm.... weird huh?

Eric

samkws

Eric...

the torque in the TL-S is more than enough for any road
conditions...the car will just pull of right away with light throtte...

well...the torque is 232lb/ft and is start from as low as 3500-5500rpm...which means the torque curve stays at the peak from that range u will get most of it...

r10apple

edub, the 3500rpm figure is correct. Consider your found reference a typo, moron produced, whatever. It's 3500 period. End of story.

Edub

Thanks for the info guys.. appreciate it.. One more question... How many of you drive this TL S in the sport shift mode ALL the time? if you stay in sport shift mode.. will there be more wear and tear on the trans and engine?

btw.. does anyone have the dyno for how much torque and horse you get from the comptech headers?

thanks guys.

Eric

r10apple

Go here to find all that you need...
http://www.comptechusa.com/

I probably stay in the s/s mode 80% of the time driving...I dunno if it does more damage or not...I do have a tranny warranty, though!

Pauli

The SportShift mode leaves me kind of cold. Before I got my TL-S 6 weeks ago, I had been driving Manual transmissions for the past 15 years. The SportShift is just not very satisfying -- I'd just rather leave it in D5 and step on the gas when needed.

Edub

Pauli.,
that is currently my main dliemna right now.. I ahve driven stick for over 8 years and when i tried the sport shifter, it just felt like it was missing something... the power was nice,, but just not a a stick.. but then i really dont like the CLS.. so i am pretty much stuck...

Eric

1SICKLEX

It's called torque and the TL-S has more peak HP than peak torque. I think the TL-S jumps off the line pretty quickly.

Pauli

Yeah, Eric, I actually prefer Manual, but I recently moved about 30mi away from work and need to drive on the 405 fwy in L.A. which was making my commute hell on wheels, literally. So, my compromise was to get a nice new Anthracite Metallic TL-S! I definitely miss the stick, though. I am in love with the Infiniti G35 6MT in Desert Platinum right now -- if I didn't have such a hellacious commute, I would be driving one of those right now.