acropora

Hi TL4mo,
If you don't mind can you post the draft of the letter your wife wrote, I am thinking about filing a complain to the head quarter just like you did.
I just visit one of body shops near by, for a complete 2 process paint jobs, the guy quoted me, $2300 which included striping off the paint of the whole car plus 3 base coat and 3 clear coat process. For $100 extra they can put a very hard and durable clear coat which is usually used by Mercede or BMW manufactures. The guy also said that Acura has been using water based Urethen paint which can cause paint crack or peeling under hot weather.
-A

JetJock

I've just called Acura Customer Service about the paint issues and also sent a letter to the address listed in the owners manual. If everyone else who is having a problem will do the same maybe we can get some results. The rep asked me what I wanted them to do and I said I did not expect them to replace the car but i would like a factory painted hood and trunk. I don't want a dealer repaint of a new car.

MB45

geeez.. thats just awful! I haven´t noticed any probs with my paint.. (other than it being a bit "soft") Can, or has anyone posted any pics of their damage?

Road Rage

Don't think the water-base is the problem - most cars are painted in that mannewr today.

But I do think the paint is weak and just called the 800 CS number to lodge a formal complaint.

dougbert

I agree. If you post the letter and the address, I can cut and paste it, add my own touch, and fire it off to the same address. My SSM is still kinda okay so far...but I've got a couple of spots that really make me mad that are peeling away. I'm very disappointed.

AND!, I'd really rather not have to have the entire car repainted unless it's repainted by Acura. This is going to get expensive!

dougbert

Oh yea... I forgot to say,... Thank God I have a 3M clear bra!... it's got several nicks in it that I'm sure would be huge paint tears by now if I didn't have it.

I HIGHLY recommend it... especially given the propensity for this paint's softness!

dougbert

TL4Mo

"...Please note that the issues to be discussed are concerns expressed by several owners, not myself only. On one owner’s forum alone, several owners have described and complained about the same items. First and foremost, the fact that our vehicles were assembled in the U.S. is suspected to be the cause of sub-level quality in regards to fit and finish. Here is a list of minor issues several owners are contending with and looking for resolution on:

Steering wheel cover not centered
Driver’s door noise
Creaks from sides and rear of cabin
Tail pipes misaligned
Driver’s door misaligned from rest of body
Sunroof noises when cover is open

Other Japanese cars I have owned (Nissan and Infiniti) were assembled in Japan and had an exceptional fit and finish. Although it would be wonderful to have pride in what Americans build, I only buy Japanese vehicles because of the superior quality. Now it seems that Acura’s reputation of quality might be hindered due to American assembly. This is very unfortunate and will definitely play a key role in my next car-buying decision. To move on, the major complaint that several owners have brought up is the substandard paint quality on our vehicles. Many of us have had our cars only 1-3 months and are noticing far worse damage to the paint than with other vehicles. For example, I drove my Infiniti Q45 for 3 years and only had between 3 and 4 nicks in the paint finish...In deep contrast to these experiences, since July 3rd my TL-S has already received between 6-9 deep chips in the paint (down to the metal). I do very little highway driving and take exceptional care to keep the car clean and waxed often. Despite several steps taken to protect the finish, it remains extremely fragile! In fact, just last week, I witnessed a plastic object get kicked up and strike my car and cause far more damage than there should have been. Because the object was a soft plastic (I picked up the piece and have kept as evidence) my expectations were to find a scuffmark or some light scratches. When I examined my vehicle, I was dumbfounded to find 4 chips that went straight down to the metal! That is completely unacceptable and a cause for extreme discontent with the paint on this vehicle. Other owners have taken their vehicles to outside body shops and have been told that the paint quality is not good...The fragileness of the paint on these vehicles is very alarming, unacceptable and a cause for displeasure. Being that Acura is very concerned about customer satisfaction, this is definitely a thorn in owner’s sides and needs to be addressed. At the rate we are going, our vehicles will look years old by the time we reach our first anniversary. Is that something that should be expected out of a quality Acura vehicle? I’ve never known substandard quality to be associated with “Acura” and I am hoping this is not the new Acura of the 21st Century...To end this letter on a positive note, aside from the issues mentioned above, the design of the vehicle itself is superb. The power behind the engine is thrilling and the car is exceptionally fun to drive. Acura just needs to improve the quality of assembly in the United States and please do something for owners with fragile paint jobs! I am confident that if this complaint can be resolved and avoided in the future, you will be ensuring repeat Acura customers!"

TL4Mo

Was at the dealership this morning and, while waiting to be served, was looking at the showroom cars. Noticed something very interesting..... the RSX and the RL are both fully assembled in Japan. Only car on the floor assembled in Ohio was guess who? That's right our TL-S

Geez, is there a connection here?

LarryLynx

After hearing all the horror stories on the forum about fit and finish and paint, and after experiencing my own displeasure, I would say that, yes, there is a direct connection between our problems and the fact that our cars come from Ohio. This would qualify as the first American made car that I've ever bought (accidentally), in 30 years, and will definitely be the last.

I wonder if Honda Accord owners are experiencing the same problems.

TL4Mo

Drew Carey may love Ohio....but I don't

Now I don't feel as stupid because I "accidentall" bought an American car also. It never even registered to even dream that all Acura vehicles were not assembled in Japan. What's the use of buying a Japanese car if you're getting American quality? I may as well have bought that Lincoln LS I like the look of!

Who else is in on filing a formal complaint about the paint problems?

tgif

I wouldn't mind to pay more if the TL-S is made in Japan.

TL4Mo

Paying more for Japanese assembly is a logical assumption with the RL, but what's up with the RSX being assembled in Japan and a sticker price of $20k?????????

Would the RSX cost $16K if assembled in Ohio?

chestertls

After coming home from dinner last night, I noticed a large piece of paint "flaking" off. I peeled it off an put it in an envelope. I will write a letter too and include a piece of my sh*tty paint.

enderwiggins

I too have experienced this sh*tty paint. My TL-S is only 2 wees old and already has a suspect ship in the paint.

Whats worse is i dont know how it got there. Its on the drivers side rear quarter panel directly abovea and a littl eofrward of the gas door. Theres is a "nick" in the paint where there is no paint and the paint has peeled away toward the FRONT of the car. There are no scratches or dings to lead me to believe that someone opened the door on the car or a rock hit it.

And if a rock hit ti, the paint would peel forward to backwards not flaking up toward the front of the car. I dropped it off today and they are sending it to the Acura Body shop man, as they call him. The service manager mentioned something about "touching it up" I have a feeling all that is gonna happen is the guys gonna take a paintbrush and dab some paint in the hole.

Im not happy.

TL4Mo

Dropped my baby off at the dealership this morning and asked about any bulletins about the sucky paint. The Service Advisor was either just acting ignorant about it or really has no idea. If it's the latter, then each of us with complaints needs to call and file a formal complaint with Acura Customer RElations AND send off a letter to Acura.

I will go to a body shop this week and get someone's opinion on the quality and an estimate on repainting the entire car. Let's all get as much documentation as possible.

What is everyone willing to accept, if Acura steps up to the plate?

I am thinking of making Acura investigate into the problem for starters . If they find a widespread problem and the root of it, then maybe Acura could offer to repaint the effected vehicles. If they don't own up to a problem root, then I would like for Acura to pay for the repaint of my entire vehicle. Let some reputable paint and body shop put a proper, quality paint job on!

What are everyone's thoughts on this?

seotaiji

Here is idea, we should make this settle soon as possible, before it gets too long. We should debate for painting job for $2,000.00 and we keep the car. I need money so badly. these days... I need extra money.. Haha.. It will ok to me..

TL4Mo

"Here is idea, we should make this settle soon as possible, before it gets too long. We should debate for painting job for $2,000.00 and we keep the car. I need money so badly. these days... I need extra money.. Haha.. It will ok to me.."

Although I agree, with you.........don't say that too loudly! It's that kind of talk (needing the extra money) that could hurt our "case". The main issue is getting a good quality paint job on our TL-S. If we start talking about how much money we can make, the actual issue get's lost. Now, if they cut everyone a check for a new paint job....what you do with that check is your business.....let's just not focus on that right now...let's get Acura to make this paint issue right.

rfrys

It seems as though most of the paint problems have occured with the 2002 TL Type S. My blue '99 TL seems to scratch fairly easily, but I have no evidence of peeling or an abundance of chips. Paint still looks very glossy, but I think I read that Acura went to a 2-step paint process in 2000.

I am paying about $175 to get a professional detail at a local shop next week that is about 5 minutes down the road from my Acura dealership. I'll ask about the TL's and see what a non-biased, non-Acura opinion is.

pianoman41

I don't think we can blame all the problems on American assembly. My '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R was built in Smyrna, GA and that car was bulletproof. Paint was in phenomenal shape when I traded it in for my '97 Maxima SE (built in Japan) and not one mechanical, electrical or fit/finish problem in 80,000 miles. The Maxima was the same way although the paint was much softer than the Sentra (lack of lead I assume). If Acura gives bad paint to its plants and/or has a poor baking process I don't think it'll matter where it is assembled.

FYI starting in 2002 all Maximas will be built at the Smyrna, GA plant. It'll be interesting to see if their build quality suffers after coming from Japan.

Road Rage

This US bashing is starting to smack of jingoism - how do you justify these comments vis-a-vis the fact that the TL has one of the highest initial quality stats in the Power surveys?

And that TL's are exported to Japan - do you think they would pay extra to have a TL built in Japan?

lonny

You guys with paint problems need to go beyond the dealers and straight to Acura corporate. The dealers will brush you off all day. I am sure the people in charge at Acura will do what's right. I had paint problems with my 98 GS400. That car got more rock chips in the hood in the first few months than ALL my other cars put together ever got! The dealers did not want to do anything so I complained to Lexus and they gave the OK to re-paint the hood. After the re-paint, I never saw another chip. The factory paint on almost all cars is pathetic.

chestertls

They apparently want to clear this up soon. Gary called me up and asked if I had decided what I wanted to do. I said no. He asked if there was any other Acura that I was interested in. I said why? He said he could get me one for cost instead of the refund. I told him I liked the MDX and the RSX and these are the prices he gave me:

RSX - 16,500
MDX - 27,200

I made sure this was for a BRAND NEW car. Doesn't that sound very very very low for these cars? Are they making that much $$$ off of us. It made me even more po'd! I am considering this, but something in the back of my head is saying take the refund and leave the Acura family.

BarryH

Dude,

MDX's are selling for $2K to $5K -over- MSRP which is $35K for a Premium without Navi. The waiting lists are 2 to 6 months long. If you can get one for $27K I'd jump on it.

TL4Mo

Chestertls:

Why are they so interested in getting you into another car? Why haven't they considered paying for a repaint on your Type S? Now, I like the MDXs also, but WHAT IF these models have the same fragile paint? Then, you're just trading in one problem for another AND can NEVER complain about the paint on the MDX......due to the deal with the devil.

Do you love your Type S? Do you want to continue driving your Type S? If you do, then ask for a repaint. If you are having serious doubts about Acura, then take the refund and go buy something else........keeping in mind that other car makers may be having the same problem with this water -borne paint stuff.

$.02 worth

chestertls

TL4MO:

You are right. I need to decide very carefully on this one. The dealer told me that on those models, the painting process is more extensive. He said the steel that is used is also from a supplier that serves Toyota. This dealership has been under a lot of customer critisism lately for unneeded repairs to customer cars. A news report would be a knife to the heart. I was going to get a MDX in the first place, but the $$ was too much for me. Now it is cheaper than the TL-S. Sounds attractive. I just don't know what I would get if I got a refund?

DJ Iceman

A few observations from a somewhat impartial observer (i.e., I don't currently own a TL):

- There is definitely something wrong with the paint on the 2002 models. There have simply been too many people on this board with paint problems for it to be a coincidence or a statistical anomaly.

- There is no foundation for saying the problems originate with the Ohio factory. My '98 CL was the first model built there and it is rock-solid. Interesting theory, but I also don't think you're going to convince Acura to close the plant or move all Acura production back to Japan.

- It sounds like some dealerships are handling this better than others. That deal for payoff plus $500 or a dirt-cheap MDX or RSX sounds like a real goodwill gesture to me! But real satisfaction for you folks with the substandard paint will have to come from Acura corporate. A hodge-podge of letters and calls to the 800 number isn't going to do it, though. One person here who is very committed to this issue needs to take charge, coordinate efforts, and present a united front to Acura. Make it clear that if they don't address these concerns for ALL of you, that you're ready to file a class-action suit. As much as I hate our litigious society, this might be a legitimate case for using the legal system.

Easy for me to say, right? It's not my problem!

TL4Mo

Thanks for the words of advice Iceman.

Yes, it would be easier said than done to elect a "foreman" to represent us all. Plus, who all is really experiencing problems? I'm sure we this is not the only forum. How many other TLS owners are disgruntled.

ChesterTLS sounds like he's taken care of and probably will be on his way...so what about the rest of us?

kchao2000

Look how many people in here complain about TLS' paint job. If everyone send a letter to Acura CS; hoepfully they will do something for us. (Yeah.. hopefully!!)

I'm sicked and tired to looking and buying those paint protection kits/paint repaire kits. I want Acura Corp. (or Honda America Corp. whatever you want to called it) to do something.

Those people who already send the letter to Acura CS, could you please post the letter on this forum? So we could copy it (maybe change it little bit) and send it to Acura? Thanks!!

What do you guys think?

dougbert

I've called Acura CS with my soft/peeling paint complaint. I'm also finishing up my letter.

I did make a point of mentioning that I am EXTRAORDINARILY PLEASED with EVERYTHING ELSE related to this car. And it's true! They were polite, I was polite; and if nothing comes out of it, at least I voiced my concern. I think if those of us with issues voice our concerns, we'll get an answer. If it's not the answer we want, we have many choices:

1) Sell the car and get a different one (that would be sad)
2) Keep the car and lump it
3) Keep the car and get it repainted on your own (and repainting it can open a whole 'nother can of worms... but it'd be really cool to have a Type-S in a color that no one else has!)
4) File some sort of lawsuit (it'd have to be a large group of people doing it as one unified body or it would probably go nowhere fast)

Personally, I'd rather see my Acura dealer a little more helpful on the issue. If the paint's coming off the car, it's a warranty issue. If I did the damage or someone else did the damage, then it's just something we have to deal with. Personally, a rock-chip is not a warranty issue... however, a rock-chip followed by a baseball sized piece of paint flaking off should be.

We'll just have to see where this saga takes us.

TL4Mo

Also have another symptom on the paint:

On the front bumper and now on the hood...the paint is crinkling...like a piece of paper that got too hot in a copier (you know when the paper gets wrinkled or crinkled?). Anyway, that's what my paint is starting to do. Now, I don't know how ANY dealer could tell me THAT is not a warranty issue! I've also got this very slight bubbling effect in a patch on the hood. Have to go BACK to the dealership next week because some of the cabin creaks returned....and will definitely make a major issue about the paint and make sure the service man sees what I am talking about!

For all those nay-sayers that are not having paint problems........think this is not a problem?

enderwiggin

i think this crinkling effect you speak of and bubbling is what happened to mine. On the rear quarte rpanle you can see a bubble coming up and some of the paint had chipped off. Flaking from the front of the car toward the rear. I took the car in and should pick it up today.

They are repainting the entire rear quarter panel.

I sure as hell hope it matches, cause if it doesnt...

im not taken the car back, theyll either have to fix it agin, or the can have it back and give me a new one.

Guest

Mine is on order and I wonder if I need to be worried about this issue. Do you guys with paint problems know the date your car was manufactured? Any chance Acura has fixed the problem in mid year?

Mr Hyde

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The soft paint is not really a defect. All new paints from many manufacturers are now soft and scratch fairly easily due to changes made in the paint secondary to environmental constraints. Acura has control over the painting process, but they dont make the paint itself. So the soft paint itself sucks, but isnt really an Acura problem. Owners of many late model cars have been complaining of soft paint, but changes were made to the paint due to environmental concerns and all automakers were affected, not just Honda/Acura.

As far as the peeling paint goes, that is definitely a problem which needs to be corrected. I am having trouble understanding this particular dealership though. They would only pay 50% of a repainting bill, but would give you an outstanding deal on a MDX which is on back order and can be sold at MSRP easy?? I dont see why they would do that, but if you wanted an MDX in the first place I would jump on it unless you love your TL-S.

Many of these posts amke it seem like our cars are falling apart, but it seems liek the exception more than the norm. My car was the first TL-S sold from my dealership back in March with a Vin in the 1800's, and I dont have any of these paint, rattle, or other minor problems that everyone is complaining about and I hope I never will. The only issue I had was the window module recall which was taken care of expeditiously and hastle free, the squeeky moonroof which was also taken care of, adn a squeeky seatbelt which I took care of myself with some WD-40.

tgif

Mr. Hyde,

My car also was the first sold from the dealer and also got it in March. I didn't experience any of this paint problem or rattle or squeak.

Steveb

Excellent letter. However, the blame must be placed on Acura and not on the fact that the cars were assembled in America. Afterall, there's many other Japanese cars assembled in America that have top notch fit and finish. Some examples that come to mind are Avalon, Camry and Accord. Acura(Honda) is a Japanese company with Japanese management. Maybe the decisions regarding paint quality and applications were made at the Japanese headquarters? There's no data that indicates Japanese cars assembled in the US are worse than their counterparts assembled in Japan. Just take a look at Consumer Reports. There's no difference in assembly defects and reliability between the two. According to CR's data, Japanese cars have less defects and better reliability than cars with American name plates. Whether the Japanese car was assembled in Japan or the US made no difference.

I'll be the first to admit Japanese made cars are usually more reliable and have a better fit and finish. However, the Japanese are human too and they make mistakes.(Just look how bad their economy is.) I know someone that had a Maxima(assembled in Japan.) that had many major problems with the car. My point of this letter is, I don't think it's right to place the blame on US workers without knowing the facts.

mike_snyder

I am in the process of selling my 95 Integra GSR and was ready to buy a TLS. With all these posts regarding paint problems. I am very concerned. Some folks say this is the exception rather than the norm. SHould I buy the car or wait to see if Acura fesses up and admits to a problem and a resolution? Just looking for some advice. Thanks!

rockinTLS

My car is fine. Four months and 4900 miles, and no problems with the paint (or anything else) yet.

No advice from me on what you should do but I will tell you that it makes me nervous, too. I am being very careful about water spots, bugs and the like. The wax job is always fresh, too.

JetJock

Just got a call from Allen at Acura CS. He said that they would take of the problem with my paint. He want's me to take it to the dealer for evaluation. If they can't remove the spots on the hood and trunk they will "take care of it to my satisfaction". If that means a dealer repaint I don't know if I want that on a new car. I told him I would be OK if they sent the hood etc. back to the factory for a repaint. He did not rule it out but didn't say they would do that either. Would any of you guys let the dealer repaint part of your car? How can the paint match the factory look without the baking process etc..

AlaskaAl

Like Mr. Hyde and tgif reported, my TL-S was the first one off my dealer's lot--VIN in the 600s, picked up March 13th. No paint problems, and I looked very closely when I Zaino'd it yesterday.

MARCO

TLS less than month old to date. 5 coats of zaino on ABP at birth. Just this past week I noticed one small "bubble" appearing on rear trunk and one also appearing on the passenger front fender. This car was clayed before zaino applied and several "shavings" came out of the paint. Several being about five on the total car. I had no problem with that. BUT these new "bubbles" are a point of concern. This car has less than 370 miles on to date. I will take to dealer at some point in the future. Final paint flaw is a chip on the driver side mirror top that was NOT stone induced due to location inside near the actual mirror itself. Here again, it seems like it just flaked off since when I zainoed the car over a period of five days, there was not ONE issue with the paint. Car is garage kept and spends about 10 miles a day on the road commuting. Other than the PAINT! Zero issues with the car.