chestertls

Had a rock hit my car head on two weeks ago and it made a small, quarter size dent in the hood. Well I went out of town and my wife has been driving the car. She picked me up yesterday from the airport and there was an area the size of a football that the paint had peeled off of. No kidding, this is CRAZY! My wife said she noticed it, but said she was going to tell me when I got home. Needless to say, she didn't have to say a word. How embarrassing for me and Acura!

daverman

Yeowch! Is your car still under warranty? Take it to the dealer's.

rockinTLS

That sucks. I would be at the dealer in a flash.

BTW, what color is your car and when was it built?

TUFF GONG

Dam!! Wait a minute that suck's! The paint on these cars can't be as bad my '88 Mustang which has peeled paint all over the place. Once there's a chip, it spreads out like a disease.

Let us all know what the dealer say's and don't let them tell you "well since it's a rock that hit it and we don't cover that" We could understand if it stayed the original chip, but to spread out that much! I don't think so
Good luck man.

Xorg

I'm very dissappointed about all these comments about the poor paint quality in the TLS. In contract, my Saab must have the thickest and best paint of any car I've owned. It's taken it share of rocks and scratches, but the finish still shines and looks like new with zero peeling or other problems.

dougbert

I have this awful feeling that this is something that we're all going to end up experiencing more and more and more. I've had my car for just shy of five months and I'm noticing the trend.

I have a feeling I'll be ending up with the entire car repainted at some point in the relatively near future.

Odds that this is going to end in some sort of class action lawsuit? Anyone? Anyone?

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune. Painting standards really haven't changed at all since the advent of the '99 3.2TL. It's the same 3-stage paint process it was back then. These occasional instances of paint degradation are factored into the corporation's warranty package, and they are mathematically/statistically expected to crop up here and there. I hope Acura is swift w/ a resolution, let us know what happens.

Pete

kchao2000

Oh yeah... if you're going to do it; count me in!!!! I'm sick and tired about Acura paint. I want to drive it with fear free and worry free!!!!!!!

TL4Mo

See the posting "Paint Issue/Problems". Spoke to Acura yesterday with some information feedback.

Maybe a class action lawsuit is a little overkill but we can at least start with class complaints....and give Acura a chance to do the right thing. If not, then let's definitely sue

tl4mo

chestertls

I went to my local dealer yesterday and although they could not explain my problem, they could not offer much help. They told me that Honda / Acura's supplier of steel is of a lesser adhesion quality than some other companies. They offered a hood re-painting for half price! The fact that a rock started the problem is the reason the warranty would not cover it. My car has less than 10,000 miles on it! I have had too many problems up til now and now the paint . I will try to take this issue to a higher level, but odds are my hood will get repainted and then the car will be up for sale. It IS a great car for the $, but I would rather pay a little more for less quirks.

TL4Mo

Is it our fault Honda/Acura's steel vendor is giving them crappy stuff? We should still all band together and approach Acura. If there are enough people complaining, they will have to take notice. One or 2 isolated incidences and they will just try to sweep it under the table. How about calling a local news reporter (consumer defender). Here in Houston, if we call "Marvin Zindler", things get done.

BTW, how much would it be to paint the hood?

Definitely take it to another dealer in town and get a second opinion

tl4mo

TLinBama

Part of the reason for such weak paint is that it is only a 2 coat process. Acura hails this as an achievement. That they can get such rich color out of 2 coats is amazing. Obviously, 5 coats would be 2.5 times stronger, especially if the coats were individually baked on. I've been disappointed with both TLs I've owned. My old Subaru Outback Limited had bulletproof paint!!

RWD

Not that this is an excuse, but did you get sealant? I received it free and they guarantee the paint against bird droppings and other things.

Mr Hyde

Sorry but I would not take a 50% reduction is painting costs as the solution to the problem. A rock chip should NEVER cause the kind of damage that you described. I would take nothing less than a full repaint of the hood at their cost as the ONLY solution. I would escalate the condition higher and higher until you get a full repaint of the hood.

How can they state that a chip which leads to that kind of paint peeling to be partly your fault?? IF they themselves state that the problem is due to steel problems which I think is BS, then that means the problem should be covered under warranty. My guess is that there was some kind of contaminant between the paint and steel on your car in that area that didnt allow the paint to adhere to the steel as it should. Due to the 2 step process Acura changed to in 2000 and the removal of lead and other chemicals from modern paints from ALL new car manufacturers the paints of today are not like they used to be. The Soft paint is not just an Acura issue, but all manufacturers have to deal with it now. But Soft paint which scracthes easliy and peeling paint are two different things and I would raise hell until the hood was repainted free of charge.

Road Rage

Sorry, but some of these comments border on totally whacko. First, I don't buy the steel baloney - that is the dealer getting you to blame someone else other than him for his inability to satisfy your complaint.

Plus, your problem was above the primer coat, so the steel issue is irrelevant, no?

I think Peter Ubers is on the money.

You have a large (quarter sized) area of damage - well, clearcoats are fragile, and need attention quickly - all sorts of things can happen in a week - the clearcoat has UV inhibitors in it and once they are damaged, all hell can (and did in your case) break loose. If it were me, I would have corrected it with some clear laxquer or t/up until I could get it professionally corrected.

And the statement that a 5-bake process is 2.5 times stronger is silly - that is not how paint works. a 5-coat may give a smoother surface and shine, but paint longevity is not guaranteed to be better than even a 1-bake process.

I have had my car for 5 months, and other than a few waterspots from acid rain and some stone nicks, all is well. If the process and the steel were faulty by design, everyone would be having problems, and Acura would be in the dog house.

TLinBama

Someone needs to explain to me how paint works. Apparently a 5 coat 4 bake process is no better than a 2 coat 1 bake. Apparently it won't be thicker and harder (minds out of the gutter please). I guess I was better at dodging pebbles in the 65000 miles I put on my Subaru (0 chips in 4.5 years) than I was with my 2000 TL (6-7 chips in 10 months) with merely 15000 miles. I've gotta get comptech sways so I can avoid those pebbles!! I wonder why Acura puts a 4 coat 4 bake paint process on the RL and Mercedes puts a 5/4 on the MLs...

dougbert

I'm on my way to the Acura dealer to talk to them about them paint right now. I'll post more when I get back.

But, despite how much I LOVE this car (and I do mean love it... read the "real" user comments I sent to AutoWeek below... which they butchered and made it look like I'm a big fan of cupholders and the tilting mirror!), I refuse to end up driving a car that looks like crap. I take amazingly good care of my cars and this is the first one that has just been a nightmare (from a paint perspective) from day one! So, if I can't get satisfaction, I'll switch over to different car (and I really like driving THIS car and the fact that I almost never seen any others on the road... I'll miss it)

The Review:
2002 Acura TL 3.2 Type-S (sans DVD navigation system)
Purchased March 24, 2001
Other cars considered: the 2001.5 VW Passat V6 4Motion, the Nissan Maxima, and the Mercedes-Benz C240.

I drove both models of the 2002 TL (the "plain" TL and the TL Type-S) and all I can say is GET THE TYPE-S!!! The extra 35 horsepower is enough to propel this car forward with absolute authority. Don't get me wrong. The regular TL is a fine car. It's solid and comfortable and a very nice drive. But throw in the extra horsepower, torque, beefy 17 inch wheels, bolstered seats, and Acura's Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) and you take this automobile up another notch and it magically transforms itself into the Type-S. It stops being nice to drive and becomes fun! When I put my foot to the pedal, the car responds. It begs to be driven.

I did not get the DVD navigation system because I found it annoying. It's cute. It's functional. It's fully integrated. But, on my test drive, when I deviated slightly off course on a winding road the navigation system continuously suggested that there were possible U-Turns ahead. I'm a big fan of not being distracted while I drive and I found it just way too distracting. I was also a bit apprehensive about the seats. I'm a large framed guy (that's the delicate way to say it) and didn't want to find myself wedged in between the bolsters on the seat. I had nothing to worry about. The bolsters firmly keep you in place when cornering swiftly but don't force you into a tight squeeze to keep you in place. The seats are also firm but not the rock-hard, are-we-there-yet, why-is-my-leg-asleep seats like those found on a lot of German cars. They're a very nice compromise between firmness and comfort.

One of my favorite features is when you put the car in reverse, the passenger side mirror tilts down so you can easily see the curb for parallel parking. I also like the convenient, easily accesible cupholders (when did cupholders become so important?!?) and the six CD in-dash player makes CD swapping while driving a thing of the past (admit it, you've all done it!!). But, my absolute favorite feature of all is that everyone at work seethes with jealousy when they see me in it. *insert evil chortle here* The one dislike that people may find with this car is that there are certain sacrifices that must be made when getting a "sport" tuned suspension. The ride is firm. You will notice the bumps in the road. But, it's not that bad. You should drive both a TL and TL Type-S. If your rear-end tells you that the imperfections in the road are too noticeable, then get the TL. If it doesn't bother you, go for the extra horsepower and panache that the Type-S is going to bring you.

The outside of this car is all about subtle style. It's not about being over-the-top or in-your-face. It's about simple elegance. The interior surrounds you in luxury and the pedal is all about power. Do I sound like I may love my car too much? Could be. But, I love my car. I love my car! I love my car!! I just cannot say it enough!

Doug Hanson
Denver, Colorado


And what did AutoWeek post?...:
One of my favorite features is when you put the car in reverse, the passenger-side mirror tilts down so you can see the curb for parallel parking. I also like the convenient, easily accesible cupholders and the six CD in-dash player makes CD swapping while driving a thing of the past. The ride is firm. You will notice the bumps in the road. But, it's not that bad.


AAARGH!

dougbert

Back from the dealer.

There are a lot of complaints coming in about paint flaking off. They're being very close-lipped about it. All they were really willing to do was to go give me the business card of their preferred paint guy and tell me that he'll fix it at a reasonable charge. If I get hit with a bug and the paint comes off in a peel the size of my thumb, then it must be the bugs fault!! Argh!

At least the most major section of missing paint is on the air dam. Which makes me think it's the paint and not the metal...because the air dam is PLASTIC!

Sucks.

chestertls

I am scheduled to go back to the dealer on Tuesday. In the meantime, I called the local bodyshop that is licensed to do the bodywork for the area Acura dealers. I called and made it sound like I was looking for a repair on the TL-S myself, not through the dealer. First thing the guy says is "front end problems?". I said yeah, the paint is peeling back from a rock chip. He then went through some papers and came back on the phone with these prices:
Bumper airbrushed - $300*
Hood painted - $800*
*Insurance coverage prices

He said that they get ~10 TL's in a month just for touch ups / repaints. Most of which are from the dealer for complaints and trade in cars to resell ! He said keep fighting the dealer because the original paint is very weak. Same thing you guys are saying. Will keep you posted.

TL4Mo

I have an appt. to go to the dealer on Wednesday and among the items for them to review is the paint quality. I'll post if this dealership gives me any information of value.

While I'm there, anything you guys can suggest for me to add to the "punch list"?

Malcolm

With all these problems with front end paint.

Do you think 2-3 coats of wax on the front would be a good idea?

Thanks

CH-TLS

chestertls:

Thanks for the "heads-up" - the wife just brought home a nice big chip on the hood, and after reading your post, I got the touch up on that same night - hopefully it was soon enough to prevent the "banana peel" effect.

If not, I'll be joining the many unhappy owners with poor paint issues.

edgalang

Count me in the club. A small piece of paint is missing from my rear bumper after someone tapped it in a parking lot. Thank god my car wasnt white or it would be waaaay to noticable. (the bumper is black underneath the paint)

chestertls

Went to the dealer this morning and they gave me the same answer. Repaint the hood at half price. Oh, BTW, the paint has continued to peel. I told tem them that I would make a HUGE deal of this on TV if they didn't repair it to my satisfaction - FREE. They got a little scared at that thought I think. After 15 minutes of talking with the store owner, they agreed to buy back my car for payoff plus $500, if I signed a letter saying that I would not bring any kind of case against the dealer or Acura. Interesting? I told him that I would think about it for a couple of days, but I would keep my mouth closed for now. I did get them to put their proposal in writing. WTH is up with all of this? I wish consumer reports could get involved. I feel bad for everyone that is having paint problems. Something fishy is going on here.

JetJock

My black TLS has water etching or "acid rain" spots all over the hood and trunk after being out of the garage only 2 nights. The roof and spoiler are OK????? This paint is totally unacceptable. I've had 3 black cars and this is the first time I've had this sort of a problem. Something has to be done about this.

TL4Mo

My wife just drafted a letter to a Exec VP whom we received a "thanks" letter from. In the letter Acura speaks of customer satisfaction being the number one goal. My wife is putting that to the test and has responded with a letter of her own. The letter started off positive, praising the dealership we dealt with (well deserved) and then plowed into discussing quality issues that SEVERAL owners are experiencing. The number one major problem listed was the sucky paint job.

I'll let you know what kind of response she gets, if any.

Oh, also, I am taking my TL-S into the dealership tomorrow and going to bring up the paint fragileness up with them as well...and may bring a copy of my wife's letter to boot!

Guest

I'm looking into one of these cars and this is scary to me.

Are there any colors that are more problematic?
Jeff

TL4Mo

I can only speak for myself, myne is Nighthawk Black Pearl. I know others with this color are unsatisfied also.

JetJock

My TLS is Nighthawk Black too. I have not had any chipping or pealing problems but the paint is just not up to par with the etching or water spot damage etc. This just should not happen in a car that's 4 months old and has only been outside for a couple of nights. I don't even drive it in the rain unless I use a leaf blower to dry off the finish afterwards. BTW the leaf blower is the best way to dry a black car. If you have a good one the car is almost completely dry afterwards and what remains can be dried with a kleenex. It also gets the water out of the door locks, gas tank cover, and wheels.

doggdoc

Yeah we have the same acid rain spotting and in the same areas, trunk and worse on the hood. I live about an hour from Lancaster county, so similar rain passes thru.

I agree, just a few months old and this sucks and is unacceptable.

I will be selling the car within 6-18 months, most likely at a considerable loss, solely because of this paint issue.

I can't stand to look at my car each morning or any time I go to drive it. Such an eyesore. A real disapointment. Drives nice though

ABP color seems to be the worst - I don't think anyone could have it worse than me - more than 100 spots on the hood

TL4Mo

Why take a loss when you sell or be unhappy while you still are driving this car? Do like Chestertls and go threaten your dealership or a couple of them!

I keep stating that if there is a big number that speak up and complain to Acura...they can't ignore or shut us all up. I'm going to wait and see what the Executive VP of our division will reply to my wife's letter.....and then if I have to will go back to my dealership and threaten media coverage.

SOMETHING has to be done

seotaiji

I have silver TLS.. and I think I had a chip before I bought it. I'm not sure.But first time, when I had my car wash I found the chip on the front end hood. I went to the dealer and they told me to buy the paint and it should be ok. I told them to why don't you paint it. and they said why don't you buy the paint? then I told him I don't have a money to buy a paint and I told them this should be on warranty and he told me there is no paint warranty. That service guys keep making mad.. Anyway i think silver paint is weak.. we should make paint recall for TLS drivers..

JetJock

don't feel bad I've got hundreds on the hood and trunk. They are real small the largest smaller than the eraser on a pencil but I too hate to look at my car. It used to be a joy to look at a shiny black car but now all I see are those f###ing spots all over the hood every time I go out in the garage and turn on the light. UGHH!#$#@%@#$# THIS SUCKS LETS DO SOMETHING BESIDES B#TCH

TL4Mo

NOW you're talking, JetJock!!!!!

Did you get a letter from a division executive VP? If so, write a letter to him complaining about the paint....and copy it to your dealership. One other thing I am going to do, besides the lttr. my wife sent, is call Acura Customer Relations (different from TLC) and file a complaint, option 1. The number is 1-800-382-2238. I'm gonna do that this afternoon or tomorrow morning. Let's attack them from all sides on this!

JetJock

My letter is going to be drafted just as soon as I finish this post. I'll also call Acura. Thanks for the 800#. The TLC # is not where you want to call. Lets all assault Acura together and maybe something can be done if enough people bombard their f##king phone lines. I'm not going to take this lying down like a B#TCH. Lets FIGHT

TL4Mo

I know datz right!

Let's all get angry enough to get off our butts and take ACTION.

Anyone else joining Jetjock and me????

Malcolm

Have any of you tried to remove the water marks with a cleaner or clay bar yet?

JetJock

Taking Sal Zaino's tip about water spots I tried using straight white vinegar to no avail. I also tried clay, Griots garage polish using an orbital buffer, a pro detail guy and none of the above worked. It's the paint!!! If you look closely at the etching or spots with a jewelry loupe or magnifying lens you can see that the surface of the paint is breached. The spots are down below the surface. Now if it's acid rain how come the vinegar did not etch the paint. Is rain more acidic than pure vinegar? I doubt it. There is something going on here with this paint and it smells of rotten fish!!!!!

Malcolm

Actually acid rain can have a lower pH than vinegar. i.e. More acidic.

JetJock

If acid rain is more acid than pure vinegar how come it does not taste sour if you drink rain. I am just curious about this acid rain thing!! It's hard to believe that rain can be more acidic than vinegar. It would kill everything it rained on wouldn't it? If you pour vinegar on grass it dies overnight.