tdoh

This didn't happen to my TL-S but I'm posting this message as a potential warning to those of you who pay to have a shop change the oil in your vehicle(s)...

One day I decided to change the oil on my '94 Nissan Sentra (I hadn't done my own changes for quite some time due to a combination of living in an apartment complex that frowns upon auto work done on said premises and for lack of time) so I looked up in the owner's manual to find out how many quarts of oil was required. Found the figure (3 3/8 qts. w/ oil filter change) and then something just dawned on me--I remembered that the service invoices from the shop (I won't mention the name of the shop due to potential litigation possibility) had a line item for 5 quarts of oil.

Whoa--5 quarts? Something's not right here--I started speculating as to what may have happened here. Basically it comes down to one of two things: either the shop used 4 quarts (if they were really competant they should ideally use no more than 3 1/2 but I can understand why they would bill for 4 quarts) and incorrectly billed me for 5 quarts; or they really did put 5 quarts of oil into my engine, in which case they actually did two things wrong--put in too much oil and charged me for extra oil that I did not need.

I have receipts which show that this *oversight* has been going on for 4+ years, so no matter what excuses the shop will try to come up with, saying that it was a mistake cannot be one of them. I plan on making a call to the BBB; do I smell potential class-action? If this *scam* has been taking place with my car for 4 years, I can only imagine as to whether it has been done to numerous other small-engined vehicles too.

Having said all of this, what problems could arise that can directly be attributed to 4 years of putting too much oil in the engine--i.e., what problem(s) will I find that I can claim with reasonable certainty was definitely caused by putting in too much oil, e.g., leakage around oil pan area?

For those of you who pay to have your oil changes done elsewhere (dealer, Firestone, Sears, Oil Changers, etc.)--this could serve as a wakeup call for you to carefully scrutinize your service invoice, or at least make sure that the service tech is putting in the proper amount of oil.

Tony

Edub-TL

Tony,

Could they have used the extra quart of oil to "flush" out some of the old remaining oil?

When I used to to my own oil, I needed only 3 1/2 quarts, so I bought 4. Either I would keep the 1/2 quart in the trunk or I would use it to help clean out some of the old oil by putting it in while the drain plug was out...

but I don't know about a whole 1 1/2 quarts more.. something smells fishy there..

The only thing I can think of is that 5 quarts is standard charge for all oil changes maybe? Like when they do work on you car, it says that it will take 2.5 hours on the invoice, but they actually take 1.5 hours.. they still get the money for the 2.5 hours cuz thats the standard charge..

tdoh

Edub--

If indeed they're using the extra oil to *flush* out old oil--well, that's a new one to me. I'm no expert in exactly what paid grease monkeys do when performing an oil change but I can't imagine them spending extra time to flush out old oil, especially when many oil changer shops advertise 10-minute oil changes. Plus, if they really wanted to flush out old oil I would think that there would be a more worthwhile way to do it than to use extra oil.

5 quarts may be some *standard* but that doesn't mean that I should have to pay for any extra oil that isn't used. As far as billing 2.5 hours while performing 1.5 hours--that may be so but then again it's really apples and oranges (labor vs. parts). At $1-$1.50/qt for oil changed every 3K miles over a span of 100K miles it may not seem like much to an individual but if you're a shop/company pulling this stunt with tens of thousands of cars it sure adds up. As the saying goes, parts are parts. There are plenty of small-engine water-cooled vehicles that don't require anywhere near 5 quarts of oil, and even if the shop actually did use 5 quarts, I would be upset that they actually would dump in 5 quarts when only 4 was needed. Also, what's to say as to exactly what kind and weight of oil was actually put into your engine--invoice may say Castrol or Pennzoil 5-30 but they may have dumped some no-name brand straight 30w oil.

Like I said, no matter how they try to explain it, they screwed up either way.

Tony

nickchop

Are you serious?! What a cheapskate! I know that the Jiffy Lube receipt always says something like..."$19.95 which includes up to 5 quarts and an oil filter."

Hope you go to litigation so you can get $20 back!

Mr Hyde

Are you sure the invoice states that they actually put 5 quarts of oil in your car?? As Nickchop stated most places charge the same price for an oil change for UP TO 5 quarts of oil. A 4 or 3.5 quart oil change wont cost any less.

In the 4+ years of owning that Sentra havent you ever checked the oil level?? If 5 quarts were in there youd definitely know it. Too much oil is almost as bad as too little oil.

Lrpba300

Gee, I wonder why I always do the oil changes myself?? I understand about living in apartm. situations, but it took 4+ yrs. to notice this on invoices? You should just ASK the service dealer! If your not satisfied, it would be time to change where u get oil changed!

Jens

Are you actually experiencing any car problems??Did you ever actually check to see what the oil level is after you had an oil change done?Sounds like a lot of trouble to go and fire up a lawsuit over twenty dollars worth of oil over four years,nothing for nothing but unless you are experiencing mechanical troubles that directly attributable to this excess oil don't you think our courts are clogged with enough problems?Jens

Xtrema

If you got too much oil, you should know within a year. There's should be a gasket that seperate your engine block. Usually oil should not reach that gasket unless you over-filled it. And over time, the gasket will burn off and you car will leak oil.

RUF87

Something else to watch for is did they actually repace the oil filter?

I caught one shop not doing it. Their excuse was the oil change guy could get to the filter. I will say it was tight, but not that tight.

So watch out that they just don't wipe the filter off and run it out the door.

RUF

pianoman41

This is a very common problem with quick-change oil places. Think about it--there's no way they can possibly stock the correct number of oil filters for all the types of cars they see in a day. What if they have a run of Toyota Camry's one day? Have you ever heard of someone getting turned away from a Jiffy Lube because they were out of stock of the oil filter? Won't happen--they'll just change the oil instead. On my old '93 Nissan Sentra SE-R, the oil filter was a b!tch to get at and many owners I talked to said they would put their initials on the filter with a permanent marker before they took it in. Many reported getting the car back with a shiny, wiped filter with their initials on it.

Fortunately, today's oils/filters and engines can forego a filter change at every oil change. Heck, most manufacturers recommend oil every 7,500 and oil and filter every 15,000. It's just cheap insurance to change it every time.

tgif

Hmm, I remeber most of the places said, " include up to 5 quarts of oil."

thephantom

I used to take my Integra to Jiffy Lube and the bill has always come out to almost $30. Where did you see the $19.95 advertisement?

tdoh

Okay, okay--enough with the flames and cheapshots; mentioning lawsuit was a bit extreme. The point I wanted to get across (and which many of you apparently didn't get) was that you shouldn't be billed for parts (in this case, oil) that weren't used, and that the job, no matter how much or how little it costs to perform, should be done correctly.

As far as the "up to 5 quarts of oil"--I've seen this and from what I understand, if it takes more than 5 quarts (and yes, there are vehicles that require more than 5) you'll most likely get billed for the additional oil. So, if oil change places can charge you extra if more than 5 quarts are used, why can't they charge you less if 4 quarts are used?

Also, if the oil change charge includes up to 5 quarts of oil (thus implying that the charge itself is a flat fee item), then explain the following:

--Why is there a separate line item for quarts of oil used (1 x 5 quarts at X dollars/qt.? And no, my invoice does not say "up to 5 quarts of oil." That stuff is stated on coupons and the like. You don't see tune up jobs which include the statement "up to 8 spark plugs" do you? There are separate and distinct price points for tuneups, namely 4, 6, or 8 cylinder (or oddballs like 3, 5 or 12 cylinder engines). Now, I don't expect to see different breakdowns based on how much oil is actually used but I don't think it's asking too much to be charged for the proper amount of oil.

--Also, on one of my invoices (from the same shop, BTW) the line item for amount of oil used shows 4 quarts, while all of my other receipts show 5. If oil changes are supposed to include up to 5 quarts then why distinguish how many quarts are used, and why the discrepancy in the invoices?

OTOH--if indeed the shop used 5 quarts of oil, why the heck would they dump 5 quarts into my Sentra when less than 4 quarts are required? Whether I checked the oil level or not is irrelevant to the bigger issue, which is that it doesn't excuse the shop from doing a competant job. Based on this logic, if oil gets all over your engine compartment because they forgot to put the oil filler cap on and you didn't find out until a few days later, then it's your fault because you didn't check sooner, right?

As far as to why I hadn't checked it--in all fairness it's my wife's car (actually my GF during those 4 years) so I hadn't done oil changes on it, let alone doing any other maintenance myself since we weren't living together during that time. Believe me, I've owned a few cars in my lifetime and I do routine checks almost religiously. It's only recently that I decided to do the oil change on the Sentra myself because it was time to do so and I couldn't arrange for a decent time slot to have a shop do it and out of curiousity decided to dig through past receipts.

For those of you who are implying that I'm being a cheapskate over $20 or so--well, I guess some of you just read too much into a statement. Like I'm really gonna sue over $20--it's the principle; all I'm really looking for is a plausible explaination over how a shop can separately bill a customer for X quarts of oil when X-1 quarts were used. I guess I should have stated this first and foremost instead of implying lawsuit--my bad there; on all other counts I stand by what I said.

As far as the snide remarks made by at least one poster--gee, I see more than a few people on this forum b*tch and moan (as opposed to just calmly stating their case) over the littlest things like barely audible wind noise (a paradox to some considering that they have aftermarket exhaust, CAI and/or booming stereo and love to talk about how nice they sound) and I hardly see any name-calling towards them but I post an observation and one guy calls me a cheapskate. Yeah, and I betcha you wouldn't say anything if you found out that you were being shorted $1 worth of gas everytime you filled up, right? Assuming you fill up once a week, $52/year is nothing as far as I'm concerned and it shouldn't be to you either...

Okay, enough ranting...carry on.

Tony

tdoh

I forgot to mention--I meant no disrespect to you all, especially those of you who offered positive constructive criticism.

Tony