Pearlwhite 02TL-S

I was playing with my bass/treble/etc and blasting some deep music and thought, "wonder if the stock system can easily be blown out?". This forum seems like the holy grail to learn about my car. Anyone with input?

Also, I was thinking about getting a new sub/amp after reading some of the posts. What does it take to really get more bass into this car? I know the stock sub is pretty decent to begin with.

Thanks!

ou sig

the stock system is a POS - you can get better sound from a WalMart setup. and it would be hard to blow your stock speakers because of all the crazy equilization the Blose system puts in (it cuts the bass a lot after a certain volume level to protect the shitty paper speakers).

if you couldnt tell from what I have said so far - the stock sub sucks big time

go to the audio/video section under "off topic" to find out all you want to know about that kind of stuff.

Zilverz

its ludicris to say a walmart system could be built better than the stock bose system. The Stock bose system is one of the best Factory systems I have ever heard. Seriously, I know you have a lot of posts and a Vet around here, but you shouldnt be giving audiophile advice when your sportin a $200 component set.

fsttyms1

Well i hate to tell this to you, But if you think this is one of the best you have heard, you obviously havent heard that many. The BLOZ system in our cars Lacks just about every thing. Its eq'ed ty the max to try to get higs out of 6.5's there isnt any bass from the system at all. and as you turn the volume up the eq limits the frequencies to the speakers. My neighbors chrystler minivan has a stereo that 10x better than my acura.
as for your quote about his 200$$ component set you obviously dont know much your self, because that component set does sound alot better and more natural than the crappy set of speakers the car comes with.
sorry to come down on you, but you need to inform yourself a little more about the TL before you can critisize

Zilverz

The Bose Highs sound clean with no distortion at high volume and the sub is extremely impressive for a 9"... its enough base to fill the cab.. but not be heard much outside. I am coming from having 2 15z .. soo i know that 9 is not going to be able to reproduce low frenquencys .. but its not ment to.. For a factory system in a luxory car it IS IMPRESSIVE

As for the Component set comment you took it out of context. It was not ment to be a comparison to the factory Bose system. He just came off talkin like a hot shot totally doggin the Bose.. when he rides with a low end component set.

fsttyms1

Our system would be alot better if it had more low frequency ability. Its just not there in our cars. yes it can reproduce highs, but they have it boosted so much they just arent clean and crisp like they should be.

If you try to compare ours to a luxury car, it will sound like a geo metros oem stereo. Listen to a lexus, benz, and even the new caddies stereos (which is bose) they will make ours sound weak and lacking. Yes if you havent had a decent oem stereo in the past it will sound good, but the longer you listen to it the more you will realize it lacks.

Zilverz

its a 9" there will never be any low frenquencies from any speaker that size .. if your lookin for low tones.. you should consider picking up one JL 18 and putting it in the trunk

Pearlwhite 02TL-S

So, do you boys suggest just upgrading the sub? I know upgrading the speakers is a royal pain in the ass b/c the whole amp-situation with the OEM system. I just don't want to put the sound 2 far out of balance due to sub-overkill.

youngBuk

pshhhhhh....our bose system suks....expecially the sub....that piece of shit couldnt be as loud as my 12L7 if u times it by 20.....the bose components suk also....i barely turn my h/u to 24 and it starts distorting....im to cheap to buy new components so ill stick with these....and yes...you can put together better sounds from k mart...but its not recommended. my advice to u sir is just buy a amp...wiring kit...and a sub/box get the bass better...the components are fine anyway.

mackntheacc

i realized the bose system was not up to my standards when i first got my car
i immeditlay took it to my audio shop and dumped $$ in it
now it sounds like a club with my 2 12inch mtx 9500's with 2500 watts running thro them. oh yea i put 0 gague wire in it also. i re did the interior speakers but not with components. and the inside is amped also. I added some tweeters as well. Audio upgrades is worse then any drug, because its soo addicting to upgrade.

fsttyms1

Thats where your wrong. It des a great job at lows with real power, BUT
Im not talking about the lows you might find from a set of 12's or 15's. Im talking lows in general. There is nothing from the mids, the sub actually produces a good amout of base when you bypass the EQ and use a real amp to amplify the sub. When listening to jazz, country, rock there is just a serious lack in frequencies and kick, Something that many cheaper cars have, and the Luxury cars (ie lexus) have that the TL does NOT. If the stereo in the TL was so good, there wouldnt be so many members that thought the sound is pitifull and replaced teh speakers and bypassed the EQ

Well DUH your talking to different speakers there. 1 a shallow mount Freeair sub and a 12" sealed sub.

upgrading the oem speakers is very easy and not hard at all. bypassing the eq is very simple and the instructions are on the forum. Upgrading the door speakers will be the single biggest improvement to the sound. And if possible get a real amp (not necessary) to improve the sound

fsttyms1

upgrading the oem speakers is very easy and not hard at all. bypassing the eq is very simple and the instructions are on the forum. Upgrading the door speakers will be the single biggest improvement to the sound. And if possible get a real amp (not necessary) to improve the sound

fsttyms1

Quoted from another forum

The Bose eq is suppose to prevent you from being able to damage your speakers. If they are blown talk to your dealer, they should replace them.

edit... just to add a little

I am a big no-Bose person (which kills me because nobody will touch my car system since the nav is integrated with it).

Three words why Bose is not great (they are good, just not great wink.gif ) 'Multi-Band Compression'. For those interested in geek talk continue, otherwise that was enough of this response for you

...

This is why everything sounds the same on a Bose system. They compress the turds out of all the bands together to make a more level eq sound. This is how they can get away with paper constructed cones and not blow them up when you crank the stereo.

Without getting too techy imagine a graph with spikes and troughs on various frequencies at the same time (very high points and very low points of both bass and treble). What the Bose multi-band compression will do is flatten these spikes and troughs across all frequencies together to prevent doing damage to the cheap ass paper speakers.

The higher the spikes and troughs, the more compression is applied. So there will be a sweet point for a Bose system where it is producing the most natural sound it can with the least amount of compression. Once you go above that point the audio you are hearing becomes more and more distorted (compressed) from the natural sound.

What this results in is every type of music - classical, vocal, hard rock, country, a man pissing in a lake - to all sound acoustically the same. You'll hear thuddy over pronounced bass in most audio and very dull high pitched sounds (like a woman singing). In fact if you visit a Bose outlet and request to put in a cd with a woman singing (perhaps the National Anthem) they won't let you. Because they know it will sound like a pile of turds (yes this actually happened to me!).

On the flipside they are very smart business-sense wise. They are able to construct one of most cheapest know speakers to the audio scene, advertise the turd out of it, and brain wash people into thinking they are the cats meow.


No Highs No Lows must be BOSE!

Pearlwhite 02TL-S

Where would be a good place to see a professional about what I need (best buy, good guys, circuit city, etc)?

I love to learn and thus I have become addicted to this forum. Great input guys!

ou sig

who the hell are you and do you have any idea what you are talking about??? Audiophile advice??? WTF is that? I just said that the stock system sucks big time, and for a small about of money, you can have a much better setup.
The components I have are nearly $400 BTW http://www.cartoys.com/Default.cfm/p/165V2/

and in total, I spent nearly $3000 of my own money on my stereo and it was worth every penny...but its not like that even matters.

The shitty very thin paper speakers that bose puts in the doors are a joke. honestly it looks like it came from a clock radio - the magnet on my tweeter is bigger. The "sub" does fine for low volumes if you just want some bass sound, but that is about it.

this factory system is complete shit for a $33k car. Unless you look to a cheep Kia or something, any factory system I have heard (newer car of course) is much better than ours with much more satisfying sound, and its not just with the TL. I am yet to hear a Bose factory system that is worth half the price they charge for it - their thoughts are completely wrong when making quality sound. They think you can just boost the frequencies to the extreme to make up for the poor design of their speakers. (you notice this is the only company that does this). How they think little 2 inch speakers can produce full range sound is beyond me (their home cubes) and the same goes for the thought that a 6 inch speaker can produce full range sound... sorry, not going to happen - if you know anything about physics you will understand why this is.

BTW you are a real douche bag coming on here like you are the shit and talking out your ass

ou sig

your best bet would be to go to a specialty shop. because the nationwide chains like that have questionable service at best and most have no idea what to do with our systems (it is complicated because everything is so integrated). I called around till I found a shop that had worked on my kind of car (the boss actually had a TLS), so I knew they could handle everything.

there is no need for an 18 inch sub if you want to produce low bass notes - you are an idiot

go to the audio/video section under the Off Topic area - search there and you will find nearly everything you need to know

Derek3.2

Can I run aftermarket speakers w/o by passing the amp? I have a Kenwood deck and infinity components up front. Of course the sub is not working and the rears sound like ass.

Hockeyman

I'm running a 12" Kenwood dB sub with a Jenson 500/1 amp, sounds 500% better than the original setup. It was the first mod i did to my car, and i still can't get enough.

binster

I have to concur with fsttyms1. I have a Dodge Grand Caravan and a TL-S. I asked my wife to play a disc in the TL-S and then in the Caravan. My NON-audiophile wife picked the minivan over the TL-S in terms of stereo sound quality.

When the cash comes around I'm ditching the Bose system. ...

bk

RickRoush03

my mach 460 in the stang sounds better than most standard audio systems in cars and its paper also, shit, they are all paper, even 150k+ ferrari's. i have listened to acura's, honda's, nissan, fords, chrysler, bmw, caddy's, lexus (pretty nice), porsche 911 turbo, bently. The acura's system is no magical wonder, trust me, almost ANYTHING after market will be better than stock.

03CoupeV6

I'm not sure why some people are so anti-Bose... I won't have anything else. I don't care about technical specs or about what anyone else tells me, to my ears, it sounds great. I had my entire system replaced under warranty (They threw parts at it when there was distortion replacing speakers last - which turned out to be the problem). I have NO complaints. It blows my 05 Accord's system out of the water, same for the TSX, my friend's Camry, another's Durango with the Infinity.

I have also listened to Mercedes cars with Bose systems, including the S-class, and they don't sound as good IMO. The only car I've been in that sounds better is the RL, and that is Bose, as well.

In 2002, Edmunds.com put out their 10-best list of sound systems over $30k, and the TL was number 7 on the list, and possibly the lowest price car on the list as well - considering the LS430 was number 1.

It sounds great to me, and that's all that matters.

ou sig

im not saying its the paper that makes it sound bad - actually many of the most expensive/respected home audio speakers are made of paper. There is much more to making sound than the what the speaker cone is made of and that is where Bose goes all wrong. I do like the mach 460 system - very good for a stock system, and the upgrade system in the new mustangs sounds even better.

first off - because sound reproduction is very technical and Bose goes at it all the wrong way. you obviously havent heard/nor care to hear a real quality stereo set-up and if you did, this Bose system wouldnt be anywhere near the top of your list (I admit some Bose car audio systems sound better than others).

So if you like it - you are right, thats all that matters. But to those that really care about and notice quality sound - Bose is a joke.

03CoupeV6

Who are you to say which is the right way and which is the wrong way to go about reproducing sound? At 22, what credentials do you have? Bose doesn't sound good to your ears? That's fine - don't have them. But enjoying the sound speakers put out, no matter what brand, doesn't make anyone less intelligent.

I don't change anything about any vehicles I buy - they remain 100% stock because that is how I like them, and if I pay for them, then I can do with them what I wish. Even the mediocre sound system in my Accord isn't so bad that I want to try replacing it.

The Bose system in the TL is fine for most people. It's bass doesn't break the windows and its highs won't make your ears bleed and it's volume won't be so overwhelming that the people inside McDonald's will hear you sitting in drive thru - but it produces quality sound.

fsttyms1

If you are running a aftermarket deck you are bypassing the amp since its built into the OEM HU. You are also bypassing the EQ with a aftermarket HU. If teh HU is a decent one with a built in EQ it will sound alot better. I have a Kenwood and it sounds much better than when paired up with the oem HU and EQ. It would however sound ALOT better if i upgraded the speakers

fsttyms1

Well im going on 31 and ive been around stereos my whole life. Ive installed 50k+ home stereos, and equally as much in cars. The Bose system while fine for most is the furthest thing from sounding good if you know what your listening for..

As for your coment about quality sound, ill have to respectfully dissagree.

Zilverz

I am sorry but you are confusing Low tones with just BASS/Quad in general. Low tones are tones made at the Low end of the frequency Spectrum. Your JL 12s are nice im sure.. and im sure they hit hard as hell .. but they Physically can not produce the lower tones that a 15" or 18" sub can produce.. here are examples with JL

JL 8W3 can only produce sounds down to - 33Hz
JL 10W3 - 28Hz
JL 12W3 - 24Hz
JL 15W3 - 22.5Hz
JL 18W3 - 19Hz


If you ever put a BASS cd your car .. there are Low tones your 12" subs will not reproduce .. and when you put that same cd in your friends car with 15z or 18z .. you will hear tones youve never heard from the same exact CD

I believe the human ear can only hear down to about 20Hz so that JL 18 is soo silly .. if you had a Bass CD droppin < 20Hz it would vibrate the car .. you wouldnt hear shit .. .but way down the street it would be knockin children onto the ground.

Zilverz

I looked your component set up before i quoted the $200 and found it new for $210.. But you dont have to have the price to confirm .. you can see how small and cheap the crossover is for that component set to tell it isnt competition grade. Give me your email address and ill show you what a real crossover looks like

Luke7

Everyone has their own preference on car sound systems. The bose system in our Acura TL's is ok, but the speakers/amps. are lacking a bit. This is not a $2000-4000 sound system and should not be compared to one. Compared to some other cars it is a great clean sound. But if your 20 as I once was, you would probably want more base/rear deck sound/and volume. Take your car to an audio dealer and go at it with your wallet if you want a better sound. = The bottom line! Period.

fsttyms1

None of us were talking having our stereos produce loud bass with a bass cd that would shake and rattle windows, we were simply stating that our system doesnt have bass period.There is no crisp, hard, loud bass or mids from our cars. The mids have been cut off from having any good mids (and lows), the sub (which does play very low freq good and a perfect volume when amped with a aftermarket amp and having been bypassed the oem eq) also get cut off from playing frequencies that it could/should be by BOSE poorly designed setup. If you were to do any reasearch on bose and find out how they achieve the sounds they do you will know how crappy a design it is. Simply put the stereo while fine sounding to some, doesnt sound that good to those who know what good sounds like.(and that all comes down to what they allow the speakers to play and the way they do it)

PenguinQX

iTrader: (1)

For the price of the TL (30k brand new) and the fact that this is the only stereo option for the car, the stereo is FINE. You really can't compare it to other BMWs/Mercedes/Lexus that have $500 stereo upgrade options that a lot of people pick. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a base stereo system on a $30k car that sounds a whole lot better.

I have a friend who has an '02 330i and the Harmon Kardon system that came with it sucked a huge one, AND it didn't even have a sub. God knows what the stock BMW system would have sounded like...

ou sig

I have been around stereos (home and car) for nearly 10 years and I like fsttyms1 have helped install very expensive home audio systems. I have heard home speakers that cost well over 10k for the pair!!! (Wilson Audio) and have been to many car audio competitions (max SPL and sound quality ones)...so I have a lot of experience and knowledge to back up what my ears are telling me.

you proved what I was saying - you dont need an 18inch sub for good low bass - I never said anything about ultra low bass that you only find on Bass CDs or on the LFE track on some Dolby Digital DVDs - and even with that, you can find countless home audio subwoofers that can play flat down to 20hz with only 1 12 inch woofer (look up SV Subwoofers). You will be hard pressed to find any frequency below 30 hz on 95% of music today, and most stay above 40hz.


you cant quote a price from some online place where they are probably b stock at best. Show me a $200 price from an Authorized dealer before you think you are even close to right. And did I ever say my components were "competition grade"??? NO and I will say they arent - I didnt want that. If I would have, I would have gotten the Utopia line from Focal.

ou sig

I never said you were not intelligent - I am just saying that I understand how sound is produced and what goes on to make it and the requirements (Physics) to actually produce it the way it was ment to be. And if you knew what I and many others know about this, you would understand the huge problem with how Bose designs their systems and the limitations they put on the production of audio from their speakers.

like I also said before, if you enjoy the sound from the stock system - Im happy for you and I dont have a reason to care either way

Luke7

Seems their is lots of complaining on this post. We've all heard better, but lets just be satisfied with what we have!

fsttyms1

thats just it alot of us arent satisfide with what we have, theys why we mod/replace stuff

RickRoush03

ok, so to wrap this up before eveyones panties get into more of a wad and we get into a whose cock is bigger, open your wallet up to how much you can afford, you can always do better than stock, and remember its your ears that will listen to it so thats the only person you have to satisfy. If you pick a system out, run it through the board to make sure everything will match accordingly.





and by the way, you guys must have some super freakin ears b/c my cousins system has to be over $100k and i will say it sounded damn good, but i'd be hard pressed to spend that much when my $5k rocks pretty damn good.

ou sig

well said - my main point was not to say I have some amazing system and I am a know-it-all, but it was to point out the problems with the design of our stock system and the flaws that Bose seems to rely on in their designs. Its all about personal preference and how much money you want to spend. if someone is happy with the stock system, more power to them

and to spend that kind of $$$$$ on a system, I guess he has a large dedicated home theater room? if so, amazingly enough, $100k could easily turn into more (crazy if you ask me)

fsttyms1

Mines bigger than yours! (sorry couldnt resist)


oh and 1 last note the oem HU sucks. It cant even play cd-r's half the time and i have a 15 year old fischer cd player thats been in my garage for well just about 15 years now and it plays them just fine


Rant over. Other than that the car is great

ou sig

dont forget about our wonderfull tranny!!!

but I agree - Rant over - us TLers need to stay together! haha

Chad(MR2 Snob)

When you say "easy", I'm not sure if it's really that easy. I would see an easy install of door speakers to be: pull off door panel, remove old speaker, install new speaker, and put door panel back on.

I don't think that's the case due to the OEM eq and 2ohm speakers. If I'm wrong, let me know so I can start the replacements.

ou sig

the stock Bose door speakers are 4 ohm ("Sub" is 1 ohm), so yes, you can replace them just like you said - though the stock signal being sent to them goes through the crazy Bose Eq, so you may have to adjust the sound some - but you can just install them like that.