thephantom

What is the difference between the ceramic and stainless steel headers? What are hte advantages and the disadvantages of both?

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Way too many topics about OBX... let's keep it in the one or two that are opened.

This question was brought up in the Comptech vs. OBX thread. There is no real absolute answer yet, however, it seems that it's just the coating on the headers, which really isn't too big of a deal. One we get an answer from them, we'll update everyone here and on acl.com!!

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

OK.. topic re-opened and I edited the title.

SSautochrome is not saying whether one is better then the other, however, there is an interesting topic on AV6.com about this. Apparently Austin (yes the guy from here at one time) is trying to do a group buy for people to have their headers coated.

After reading his intro post.. it seems like a good idea in theory, however, once you read on you realize ceramic really isn't much better. Here's the link so you can draw your own conclusions:

http://www.v6accord.com/forums/showt...threadid=13275

thephantom

Thanks, JRBean.

Edward'TLS

I don't know about CT or OBX headers. But from my experience with RSR stainless steel header and DC ceramic coated header on my previous car, the ceramic one tended to last longer.

The stainless steel one created cracks and leaked air on the weld joints after two years, whereas the ceramic one lasted for at least five years on my previous car.

I asked around many shops and the replies were that stainless steel (SS) was not easy to weld. The SS and the weld metal were different materials. They expanded and contracted at different rates, so cracks would form after many such heat cycles. Ceramic coated ones were made of softer metal, so there would be less stress for cracks to form.

Once again, the same may not apply to CT or OBX headers !!

T Ho

Ceramic coating will help the headers last longer. You say, "but it's stainless!" Yes, they are, but that doesn't mean that they're immune to corrosion, when subjected to repeated heat-cool cycles in excess of 1000F.

Secondly, ceramic coating will lower your underhood temperatures. Ceramic is an insulator (true both electrically, and heat-wise), and as such, will help retain heat in the exhaust stream, where it belongs, and out of the the engine compartment, where it doesn't. A side effect, is that hotter exhaust is higher energy exhaust, and in a properly tuned header, will help achieve the best power (we're not talking 20hp here- it's a subtle effect, but present nonetheless). This can be particularly effective on the TL-S, as I've read (here) that the exhaust heat shield doesn't fit over the headers.

I run ceramic coated headers on my old Z28, and underhood temps dropped nearly 20F when idling, with the addition of ceramic coating over "regular" headers. Yes, I checked it- I'm an engineering geek- I can't help myself.

So, yes, ceramic coating is worth the trouble, IMO.

Todd

Frogger

Hmm, well I bought stainless steel since the comptech ones are also stainless. I figure Comptech knows what they are doing.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Well, I agree about the ceramic coating keeping temps down... however, after reading that whole post on av6.com it appears that anyone who had ceramic headers lost power. Now it could be b/c they had their stainless headers ceramic coated vs. just buying ceramic headers.... but I'll still take my chances with the stainless steel headers....

T Ho

I only saw one dyno on the av6. One data point does not indicate a trend. And, that guy made the mistake of not dynoing HIS headers on THAT dyno, BEFORE he got them coated.

And don't forget, you have to live with those headers, and the excess heat, 100% of the time. You only feel the 2-3whp loss (as compared to uncoated headers), 1% of the time (when at WOT).

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Actually, there were two people who dynoed (one posted)

With one more on the way

But you're right... for the people who haven't purchased yet... the ceramic's are the same price as the SS... so it's probably worth it....

roadman

Does it seem odd that of all the TL's and Cl's that only two had them dynoed. It would be extremely useful if someone who has actually had headers installed joined in and gave real world experience. What did you notice as far a performance and installation.

Many have posted the cost differential between the two manufactureres as being no or low R & D costs for OBX. It would be a huge red flag if Comptech spends say $500k on R & D, then sells the design to OBX, who then changes it to get a few more HP then spends little or nothing on R & D and Quality Control and starts selling the product.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

I should have some kind of real world numbers starting soon. I'll be heading to Englishtown for Acura Wars on 11/16. Those runs will be w/o the headers. Then, I'll have the headers installed and I'll get out to E-Town again on another cool day, so I'll be able to compare 1/4 mile times.

If I can find a good dyno place around here I may do a before and after as well depending on the cost and actually having some free time

thephantom

So the answer is, maybe, we are not sure yet.

TUFF GONG

I have one question.

Does anybody know if the Ceramic coated OBX' are coated both internally as well as externally?

The problem with mild steel headers not being coated internally is RUST. It will begin to rust immediately after being installed and eventually create an unsmooth surface area inside. It may not be a severe loss in performance but it counts. And I'm not even talking about the durability issue.

Also, if the ouside is coated and the inside isn't, the heat will permeate the steel yet have no chance of really cooling down from the external surface of the headers since the ceramic is insulating the steel from the outide.

One more thing.....quality of the ceramic coating also depends on the manufacturer. Good strong coat compared to cheap thin coats that chips off.....although they are supposed to be a durable coating, cheap coatings due exist.

TUFF GONG

oops...another question.


Does anybody who actually have the OBX headers tell me if they see a "Made in ......." label?

I'm curious if they're actually labelled where they are manufactured.

Frogger

You sound like a mechanical engineer.

One thing I learned in school...believe it or not but adding "insulation" to a tube for example actually worsens the insulation effects due to an increased surface area. I always thought that was interesting.

agean

how much $$$ does a dyno run?

roadman

Someone posted a quote from OBX that stated that the backlog of shipments was due to the dock stike in Cal.

This would indicate that all or part were made overseas

roadman

I used to have plain steel headers on my Chevelle, they were not stainless steel and rusted like crazy, but they lasted for years and I never had a rust related problem. If there was a loss it was not noticeable, but then again putting headers on a 450hp car simply meant that your burnouts went from 200 ft to 210 ft long!!!

TUFF GONG

So...out of the handfull of folks who have these headers in their possesion, no one wants to tell us where it's made?

I've read many of OBX's products are made in Taiwan......so I guess their made in Taiwan huh?

agean

tuffgong - i'll let ya know as soon as i get mine delivered

TUFF GONG

Thanks brother. Not that it "really" matters considering the price, but I'm still curious.

It does make a difference where something is made...IMO.

Thanks.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=48221

TUFF GONG

Yup, I'm quoting myself. Here's a pic of ceramic coated OBX Headers I pirated off of Edgalang from another site. I'd post the link but it'll be edited anyway.

Have you guys seen what a true "ceramic coating" looks like? It's not this cheesy foreign "paint". It's virtually a indestructable coating. Stick with the low grade stainless steel version.

Made in Japan my a55!!! But it'sstill a cheap alternative.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

LOL TUFF GONG - I was going to post the same thing in this thread!!

BTW... links to acura-cl.com wouldn't get edited... so you could have posted the link: http://www.acura-cl.com/forums/showt...threadid=84590

roadman

Imagine if that happens on the inside, the converter or muffler may clog up, there goes those 35 ponies !!

edgalang

I was initially going to post in this site, but we're not allowed to post pics so I don't bother anymore...but yeah...what do you guys think of it?

P.S.
thx Tuff

kman156

or there was a problem coating what appears to be a very thin layer of ceramic?! the heat peeled it back, what good is that for heat dissipation? i put my order in for the tawainese stainless! alot of us will soon know if it was worth it!

T Ho

WTF happened to that coating??? That looks like paint. If that's what they offer, get the stainless, fo sho!

This is what ceramic coating should look like, after a long time (7.5 years, 35000 miles, many of them 1/4 at a time )
http://home.cfl.rr.com/doriplace/ima...%20(Large).JPG

Todd

TLRunner

juniorbean, I think you're misinformed man...I talk to Austin 519 a lot nowadays on AIM because I wanted to get the door sills awhile back. He talked to me about his coated intake and headers...he's going to get a dyno when he puts the headers on...but the guy on the av6 forum didn't actually lose power. There was no baseline he was comparing his headers to, so there's no real way to tell if he gained or lost, he just put the headers on and dynoed it. For the record I got my intake coated and (although it may be placebo) after long periods of running the car seems to feel like it has more HP than before the coating...which makes sense because coating the intake keeps the air inside insulated.

Also the guy you referred to on the av6 forum had a really bad quality coating...my coating came out great, as did Austin 519's and the other guys that I've talked to in the groupbuy, so that could've been a problem. The guy had bubbles and stuff on his headers.

Since I assume he's still banned here...I'll just say, after all the crap I've seen about the OBX headers peeling and the coatings coming off etc, I would definitely get these Jet Hot coated in his groupbuy. But as I said he's planning on getting dynoed soon so we'll see about the power loss.

But from my experimentation with my intake coated with Jet Hot Sterling ceramic, this thing is really resilient. I would've thought I would have scratched it a few times by now (installing into that sharp hole cut into my TL where the pipe goes) but it never scratched, and it's supposed to last 100x longer than high temp paint, which that and the added benefits of insulation definitely made a case for me to get it.

lhommec13

For the person who asked how much it costs to perform a dyno, I've seen prices of $50-$75.