Las Vegas TLS

So I was driving around Vegas and I noticed a S4 in front of me turning right at the light. I don't think he was trying to race me or anything because I was behind him and I don't think He saw me. When He turned the corner He must of been showing off the the passenger in his car because He raced it all the way up to at least 100. Just for kicks I followed Him to see if I could stay on His tail. Not a chance He was about 40 feet in front of me and it stayed that way untill the next light.
I didn't use sport shift or anything and maybe looking back I should of, but those cars are really fast!!
I was reading an article last night in "Automobile" and they had an article on the 2003 Audi S4. Can you say 340HP V8??
I guess the 250HP turbo V6 was not strong enough.
It looks like they are trying to go head to head with the BMW M3??
People sometime compare the S4 with the TLS, I think in 2003 the S4 will moved up into a new class?

hemants

The new S4 is not available yet. What you encountered was probably a current S4 with a Chip ~320hp!!!

And yes, the S4 has always been an M3 killer. I'm sure the next one will be as well.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, I've read that article too. I don't think the V8 has been confirmed.... it's just something that Audi has been considering. Either way it will be a sweet ride!!

mrq

Audi = BLING BLING... as for old S4, you can get up to 3rd stage upgrade, which allows car to go up to 410hps. But the 3rd stage is illegal I believe in the states. Also you can get A4 1.8t to 3rd stage upgrade too, which gives A4 the new racing engine, hp of 330 but illegal. I did see that article of new 2003 S4 with V8. I don't think that will happen unless Audi upgrade S8 which is V8 turbo with something like 330 or higer hps. Anyways I point is that Audi is a good car.... hehehe . Way better interior than BMW. Bimmers need to work on their interior.

WWW

I believe Audi's new 8 cylinders engine is a W8 instead of a V8.

BMW74

As a driver of an S4, I can tell you that there is virtually no reliable info on the next gen S4. Most of us are hoping for another turbo V6 instead of the rumored v8.

Even keeping up with a stock 6-speed S4 would be tough for a Type S, especially if the S4 driver knows what he is doing and if it was chipped, well you the story there.

Caddy©

How's the S4 Compair to CL-S All around ? Oh I know your Quicker and All but give me your General impressions of the Car. I had a Friend who just got one.

Edward'TLS

The current A4/S4 has an almost 50/50 front/rear weight distribution, which is best for handling. Putting a heavy V8 in the small S4 would certainly upset the optimal handling of the new car.

BMW74

All around it is a completely different car than the TL I drove. BTW, I had several mods on my TL (intake, headers, exhaust, springs, sways, 17'rim and toyos) so my TL was as fast as a stock Type S and handled better. However, my heavily modded TL didn't compare to my S4. I drive the Avant, which handles slightly better because of near perfect weight distribution and the car sticks like a magnet to dry and especially wet pavement. Traction and stability with Quattro are as good if not better than any car I have ever driven and braking is tremendous. I have a 6-Speed which is extremely quick and has torque to burn and I am looking forward to modding the S4 b/c with a chip and exhaust I can push 350++ HP and with a sway bar handling can be improved even more. Not to mention the car feels like a rock. There are no squeaks, the leather is real....etc. These are things you expect for $45K car (that was the sticker price).

Don't get me wrong, I loved my TL and I would have kept it for a while if this deal hadn't fallen in my lap. I bought my 01 S4 Avant w/ 12,000 miles on it for 2K more than I paid for my new TL. I got close to 35% of the original 45K sticker b/c it was used and it is Cactus Green, which is rarely seen color in the S4. If I were buying another 30K car, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another TL (6 Speed Type S of course). There still isn't a better value on the road, but I have always loved the S4 Avant and was in the right place at the right time.


You are correct sir!!! That is one of the main concerns with regards to the next gen S4.

AKRY

S4, even as current model, is NOT in the same league as TLS(or should I say TLS is not the same league as S4... hehe)... Stock to Stock, S4 6-speed would dust TLS pretty bad, even Auto S4s would have no problem keeping, or even beating TLS...

Stage I mod alone would bump up HP/Torque of S4 significantly, with Stage II, S4 shouldn't have much problem dusting Boxster S, and should be very close to M5.... with Stage III, S4 is in E46 M3 territory....

Andy Kuo

AcidHorse

Isn't the Avant the wagon variant of the A4/S4?
Are you saying the handling of the Avant is better than your old TL, or are you comparing the handling of the Avant is better than the handling of the S4 sedan?

BMW74

Sorry, the handling on the S4 Avant is proven to be better than the S4 sedan and I would venture to say it handles a little better than the TL

MB-telecom

1. What kind of 'chip' gives the Audi S4 an extra 70 HP??? Please, please tell me. Unless the chip increases boost by a good 5 - 8 PSI, then this is BS.

2. A 'chip' and an exhaust will give the Audi S4 and extra 100 HP?? This is also BS. Again show me proof. Show me the Bosch all wheel drive dyno numbers. 350 HP!?!? That is an extra 30% increase in HP. Some of you guys are reading the cover's of the 'tuner' magazines and taking them way too literally.

3. Since when is comparing a 'modded car' (a modded S4 in this case to other cars) to a stock one even logical? Any car can be modded. My 1991 Dodge Stealth RT/TT with 13G turbos, 550CC injectors, HKS fuel pump, HKS cat-back exhaust, HKS intakes, HKS boost controller running 16 PSI can beat out (barely, at least to about 130 MPH, then I lose swould stay even) a 2002 Corvette Z06. I guess since my investment ($10K for the car and $6K in parts) is 1/3 that of a Z06 that my car is better. It also has four-wheel steering and all-wheel drive. NOT. It is comparing Apples to Oranges. I will also SMOKE an Audi S4, but who the hell cares?

4. The Audi S4 costs $10k more than than the TL-S. I guess since we are talking mods here, we can spend $7k - $8K on the TL-S, the Audi S4 and still have money left over to work the suspension before we are at the Audi S4's $40K price tag.

5. This all very IRRELEVANT though.

Wash n Wax

6. We know. We are not stupid. Just having fun.

ROADRUNNERHMK

HA - I was going to come home today from work and register on this forum and ask your opinions of the TL-S vs S4!

I am thinking of getting a TL-S with body kit, navi, springs, sways and some better rubber - OR- getting an S4.

I have always liked Acuras. My family has had several over the years and they are great cars for the $$.

I was hoping to see an S4 at the LA Auto Show... but no luck. Question for you guys that have been in both. What is the leg/head room like in the S4? I'm 6'4" and the TL-S fits my just fine, but wondering about the S4???

Any input would greatly be appreciated!

Thanx,
Jeff

AKRY

MB-telecom,

Keep in mind that NA version of S4s are "detuned"... Euro Spec makes more HP(250HP/258lb-ft VS 265HP/295lb-ft)...

It is proven that simple chip swap(ECU reprogram) can boost HP/Torque up to 300HP/350lb-ft, with variants of +/- 5 ~ 10....., and with fully tricked out Stage IV kits, a S4 will be pumping well over 400HP.....

Still have doubt?? Follow the link and have a look yourself...

MTM S4 2.7 Bi-Turbo mods

No need to argue when there are hard evidences.....

Andy Kuo

MillYellZ06

Would you like to find out?

MillYellZ06

I too, am about to pick one of these cars and have taken the S4 out for a test drive on sat. I am not sure if I should just wait for the new one or wait for the TLS to come out in 6 speed.

MB-telecom

Not to be an 'a*****e (oops to late for that :-), but many, many claims have been made over the years about 'chips' and their respective HP gains. Many, many people have tried to verify those claims and most have come up way short. I also understand very well what de-tuned means. I lived in Germany from 93 - 96. My very good friend Tobias Pfleger is an ME and works for ZDF so I know a little bit about German cars. What de-tuned means for the US (usually) is that the turbo boost is decreased, a milder cam is used, a more restrictive exhaust is used, etc.

250 HP to 306 is not the 320 HP someone else claimed. 55 HP is reasonable. Once again, just because John Hoppen Motorsport says 'it is', doesn't mean it is true. Only DYNO numbers can back up these claims. Curiously however there are no dyno claims to back this up... Show me an article with DYNO figures. Does John Hoppen have an all-wheel drive Dyno? That is the only way one can tuly verify HP gains... Too many people are in the habit/business of making suppositions. 'The rhetoric often does not meet the reality.'

AKRY - Once again ANY car can be modded. Who cares though since it is a moot point once you start talking mods...

Why is everyone talking about Audi mods? Isn't this a TL-S forum? If you like the Audi, then save some extra $$$ and go and buy one.

SCWells72

Wow, MB-telecom...why so peeved at the conversation? Forums are for discussion, and this topic is pretty relevant since several of the members of this forum are either looking to get an S4 after their TL/TL-S or instead of a TL/TL-S.

Anyway, I know several guys with S4s, A6 2.7Ts, and TTs at various levels of chipping (unchipped, 1.0 bar chip, and >1.0 bar chip), and the guys who've chipped have definitely reached between ~305HP for the 1.0 and ~320HP for the >1.0 (I've never heard anyone claim 350HP from just a chip, but from full intake/exhaust + chip, it wouldn't surprise me). Of course, the latter is not really recommended if you care about the health of your engine, but I haven't heard about any problems so far. More important than the HP boost is the HUGE torque boost, though! These guys are getting close to 400lb-ft, and you can REALLY feel it!

I personally wish that Audi would just bump the displacement of the biturbo engine to 3.0L in the next S4 instead of putting in a V8. I'm sure that you'd be able to get close to 400HP/400lb-ft out of such a beast pretty easily, and it'd help with the weight-distribution issues. Of course, as the owner of a GS430 I can say that there's definitely something to be said for the smooth, almost bottomless power delivery of a well-tuned V8!

MB-telecom

Sorry to be so intense SCWells72. The point here though is that anyone can 'mod' any car to nearly any desired level. Hell, I can buy a mid-nineties Eclipse, spend the same amount of money on the Audi S4 stage 3 'mod' and run high 11's in 1/4 mile. The point is when talking about serious mods, almost any car can be made into an awesome racer. With all of the mods in the Audi S4, a Corvette still has a superior engine and is a much better value!

Why not just buy a Corvette. It's not like the S4 is going to transport 4 adults comfortably. All it has over the Corvette is a trunk and two small back seats, so why not go all the way and throw any utility the S4 has out the window (being a bit sarcastic)?

Long-term reliablity and cost are also HUGE factors when considering any Audi; these cars are only average as far as reliabilty goes.

You say some guys are running over 1.0 bar on their turbos??? Wow! That is over 14 PSI! Their rods, bearings and crankshaft are going to take more abuse, not too mention they are probably at the limit of the stock fuel system as well. That is dangerous. I wonder if the Audi S4 has all the same internals (pistons, rods, bearings, crank, fuel system etc...) of the Euro spec. model?

Don't get me wrong. Audi S4's are awesome little cars. They have done really well on the Europena Rally circuit in the last few years. They are just an apple whereas the TL-S is an Orange. If the Audi S4 was not fetching such a high price ($1.5K - $3K over MSRP in some cases) and came with more standard equipment than it would be just as good a value as the TL-S, plus you'd get all-wheel drive.

91M5

I had a run in my M5 with a chipped S4 (pretty sure Stage 1) and it also had a catback exhaust. He was empty with one passenger. I had 4 extra tires and wheels in the car, 60lbs of tools, and a seventy pound floor jack (also had a passenger). We went at it from about 45mph-120mph and he had nothing on me and in fact struggled to stay with me past 100 mph. A chipped M5 (OBD I) will dyno 280+hp to the rear wheels. I think low 300's hp is reasonable a the crank for a chipped S4 but a lot of that advantage is at low speed. I also drove a chipped Avant and was kind of shocked at how the power dropped off past 5000rpm. I must qualify that statement with the fact I am used to a car with not much below 3000rpm but pulls like crazy to the rev limiter.

Very nice cars. I love the way they look (and hate the new A4). German, which is always cool, but the shifter and notorious turbo problems would preclude me from buying one. Also, their "great" brakes are a disaster in any kind of heavy use. The shifter I drove already had the UUC shortshifter. I did really like the H&R coilover suspension. Great handling and a decent ride. Also like the steering ratio, very quick compared to my car.

I thought of getting the Avant for my wife but she concluded the backseat was too small in the A4. It would have been a great family car. It was also a bit out of our price range.

BMW74

I am 6'3" and i fit fine, if not better than my old TL

SCWells72

Yeah, one of my buddies with an S4 is about 6' and I'm 6'1", and I've noticed that I can find a very comfortable sitting position in his driver's seat. Even when I'm so situated, another 6' person could sit behind me, just not for a long trip. It's only a little smaller than the TL...

Indyjenks

Depends on what you want.....do you need a back seat by chance? The one in the Audi is essentially for putting grocery bags on! My first choice in cars was the Audi A6 2.7T....same engine as the S4, but in the A6 package (it has a back seat). But...for the extra money the Audi was (stickered at 45K), I just couldnt justify spending the cash...although I would have if I could have afforded to...hehe! The S4 is more of a hot rod...has full time 4WD, German quality and a definate "feel" that is difficult to quantify. Am I sorry I bought the Acura???......no way....love the car.....would I like to have the A6 2.7T???.....yep...in a heartbeat.....

Oh yeah.....Im 6'6" tall.....so the seat has to be back a looooong way....

AKRY

MB-telecom,

Guess you should read it from 1st thread again..... I already stated that stock to stock, 6-speed S4 would eat a TLS for lunch, and by including what S4 is capable of with Stage I/II/III/IV mods was just for extra information....

Since you had doubt about S4 pumping 300+HP in your first thread, I was merely providing answers for your doubts, and NO, I was NOT comparing moded S4 to stock, or even moded TLS...

My own philosophy is, if you want to mod the hell out of your car, you might as well save up the $$ and buy a faster car, one or two classes/levels up... e.g. Rather than mod the hell out of 330Ci, one might as well buy a M3 SMGII....

Andy Kuo

DJ Iceman

My thoughts exactly.

thejavagod

Very interesting...but let me ask you a question. If a $795 S4 upgrade can change the HP rating from 250 HP to 306 HP then why doesn't Audi include this standard? It does not seem to make any sense.

Regarding the S4 "eating the TLS for lunch", I think that is an exaggerated statement. We are comparing two very fast cars here that are within a 1 second difference in 0-60 mph....seesh, this is not exactly a Toyota Corolla vs Audi S4 comparison!!

SCWells72

As far as why it's not standard, I assume it's because of emissions and/or fuel economy...same reason that Lexus de-tunes their V8. With the GS4 you can get an extra 20-30HP/lb-ft just by changing the fuel/air mixture and increasing the intake, but you lose ULEV certification.

As far as a one second difference in 0-60, that's a HUGE difference! Take another second off of the S4 and you're getting close to Viper range! Add a second to the TL-S and you're talking about ES300 range. One second is a monstrous margin when you're already under the seven second mark...

1SICKLEX

All this HP war crap is B.S. The E36 M3 was fine with 240hp (315 overseas) and was perfectly balanced. Audi S4 with a V-8, remember how well the AMG C43 sold......

WEIGHT is a cars major enemy, not having enough HP.....

Mr Hyde

Stock vs Stock the S4 stick will eat the TL-S for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Modded, same story, though dollar for dollar since its a turbo you'd get more for your money with the S4 chip upgrades. Kiss that warranty bye bye though at the same time. The Automatic is a totally different story though it really puts a damper on the acceleration of that awesome biturbo engine.

I actually was considering a 2000 S4 before buying my car in early 2001. It was a leftover and they were sellin it at 38k, which was a good deal, but in the end the TL-S fit me better. I just found the A4/S4 too small for me and I am not a tall guy, but I had zero leg room in the back of that car.

If the small size is no problem for you, and you want the faster & better handling car get the S4 stick. If you an A/T and want the faster car stock the TL-S may win, but the handling is no contest there; S4 easy. And if you want a track car get the S4. If you want an almost as fast car with good handling that can be made degrees better fairly cheaply with just sways and springs better, and you want the size all for thousands less, get the TL-S. Good Luck with whatever you get.

AC

S4's are puny in the back seat. Even S4 owners will admit that.

True, we're not comparing S4 vs Corolla, but like Hyde said, S4 stick will sh!t on a TLS and still make change.

When I saw the original post, I came to 2 conclusions. Either you didn't race a 320HP version or the 320HP version let you stay behind him.

My buddy has the GiacX chip and exhaust and he pushed 260HP and 320 lbs. to the WHEEL! Considering the amount of drivetrain loss on a 4 wheel drive 320HP is certainly attainable. I've driven his car and let me say that it's pretty freakin fast. With the right driver, it will beat the current M3 or be close.

thejavagod

I am seriously thinking of getting a S4 stick, but I'm concerned about long term reliability I have heard a lot of horror stories about those turbos dying... I wonder if any of it is true.

As for the driving experience I agree that the handling is light years ahead of the TLS.

AC

I too once was interested in an S4 or A6 2.7T but was concerned about the life cycle of a Turbo.

Now I don't know about light years. I have to assume that Acura made the TL/TLS in its characteristics for a reason. I think the ATR and the NSX was good proof of what Acura can do in the "sport/sporty" category.

samkws

indeed audi is not known for their reliability....
not sure for now...go ask jimster...he has my favourite car A6 2.7T!!!

Jim Will

No reliability issues here. Other than a set of warped rotors at the time of delivery. I think that proper warmup and cooldown has more to do with turbo longevity than anything else.
I'm currently exploring a power increasing appetizer, may happen very soon.
Ahh, a little mild salsa goes well with a nice, fresh tortilla ch-p..
Stay tuned..

Jim Will

No reliability issues here. Other than a set of warped rotors at the time of delivery. I think that proper warmup and cooldown has more to do with turbo longevity than anything else.
I'm currently exploring a power increasing appetizer, may happen very soon.
Ahh, a little mild salsa goes well with a nice, fresh tortilla ch-p..
Stay tuned..

MB-telecom

What is so great about the S4's 'bi'turbo' V-6? I love how you guys use 'bi-turbo'... sounds sooo elegant doesn't it? Well, if the Audi's 'bi-turbo V-6 is so great, then how come the early 90's 300ZX/TT, 3000GT VR4/TT and the MONSTEROUS Supra TT would ABSOLUTELY **** ON (as on person put it) the Audi S4? The bottomilne here is that those engines are almost 10 yeras old and are better engines plain and simple (you can't even argue with the Supra being the best twin turbo V-6 out there for the $$$ - It has proven with the stock block and crankshaft to reliably put out over 650 HP!). The Audi S4 puts out 250 HP? And this is 2001? Give me a break! What a joke! How overrated can an engine be? Audi only achieves 250 HP with a V-6 twin-turbo? Even the 3000GT VR4 was running 8 PSI from 91 - 93 (vs. Audi S4's 10.2 PSI) and still put out 50 more HP than the Audi S4. Crank the boost up on the VR4 from 8 PSI to 13 PSI and you will gain appx. 75 HP! A $500 investment in a boosy contraller will net you 35 less HP than a $7000 investment in the Audi S4 Stage 3 kit. Look at the Subaru WRX. Subaru built every bit as much car as the Audi S4 for 40% less! The only thing the WRX lacks is fit and finish. If Subaru would have put $5K - $7K more into the WRX, than the WRX would probably be a better car straight up than the Audi S4. The Japanese have proven themselves to be every bit the car builders as the Germans. If the Japanese wanted to build a car to compete DIRECTLY with the Audi S4 and BMW M3, then they could use an existing platform (Maxima, Camry Solara, etc...) with an 'old' 'bi-turbo' V6. Can you imagine the Nissan Maxima with the old 300 ZX/TT engine in it? It would smoke an S4 and for $8k - $10k less. What a car that would be! The Audi engine is overrated... It can't even compete with japanese engines that are 10 years old...

DJ Iceman

The VW/Audi fans are going to hate me, but I think Audis in general (not just their engines) are WAAAAY overrated. For the product you get and what they charge, I don't even consider them.

AC

Wheww!

Why you hatin on the Audi so much? I think we all know that the Supra TT was one of the greatest cars built. I don't think anyone was arguing that fact.

This still goes back to "for $x I can make my Civic faster than your S4 and still save money, etc". Well guess what, you still got a CIVIC! Get the point.

Don't get me wrong, I don't "love" Audis but I do like what they've done with the S4 in regards to fit, finiksh, performace, and luxuries.