samkws

after i have changed my tranny oil for only 1500miles ago, i switched to Motul sythentic ATF

and when they were draining out the one month old tranny oil and it came out DARK!!!

also at the nut there were lots of metal dusts as well

i start to wonder if they really changed my tranny oil and wow it's really dirty

now makes me believe lack of changing tranny oil is one of the reason the tranny failed

i really recommend you guys to change the ATF more often...probably every 6000-8000 miles, it's only a cheap investment and even teh sythentic blend are not expensive at all.

1st timer

i'll be changing mine once a year.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Transmission cooler, frequent fluid changes... it doesn't matter. Transmissions are still dying left and right. If it's gonna go, it's gonna go no matter what you do.

I beat the living shit out of my car, and still rolling on original transmission fluid with 39,7xx miles on the odometer, and it's doing fine. Is it going to go soon? I don't know, and I don't care. If it's gonna go, it's gonna go.

samkws

time to change them

get the Amsoil ATF

Street Spirit

Tranny fluid that was only used for 1,500miles SHOULD NOT be dark AT ALL!! How many KMs on your car overall? Depending on your mileage, you "should" technically still even be quite okay on your original fluid. There's DEFINITELY a problem if your fluid is brown!! Shouldn't happen....

PenguinQX

iTrader: (1)

heh. u said nut.

samkws

my car has 63000km now, and my last oil change was at 59500km

benzo555

Im sticking with Honda ATF Z1. Did you flush or did you just drain and fill? If drain and fill, there is a good amount of old fluid in there as well making it dark really quick.

samkws

the mech said it's ok not to flush, just change them once a yr

PDX3.2TL

drain and flush? Just pouring a few more quarts through is what you mean right? Just curious because never heard the term... I know that there are machines that will cycle the ATF and "clean" out the tranny, but I'll take the cheap effective way any day!

soccerbenk

no.

Our automatic transmission hols 8 quarts of fluids. When you do a change using the plug at the bottom it is only able to drain out 3 quarts so you are only replacing 3 of the 8 quarts your transmisson holds.

A tranny flush requires a special machine that many auto shops have this machine is able to suck out all 8 quarts of fluid so you are therefore able to replace all 8 quarts.

samkws

8 quarts?

$$$

soccerbenk

so u spend 40 bucks on tranny oil but if you like me where i bought aq car that went all the way to 120,000 miles without the transmission oil even being touched it it was well worth it

ndx2

I'm changing it next weekend, and doing 2 "changes". I'm sticking with Honda ATF, though.

Unless you're doing a COMPLETE flush, I'm iffy about mixing two different kinds of transmission fluids.


EDIT -- This is Pure Adrenaline... I'm using my brother's computer.

fsttyms1

it doesnt matter. i installed a cooler, changed teh fluid every oil change (8,000 miles) and that tranny lasted the least of the 3 failures

ndawood

I see absolutly no point in changing your tranny fluid every 6-8k miles. As Pure Adrenaline states if the tranny is going to go there is nothing you can do to stop it. Switching over to a syn. ATF will not change the fact that the tranny will die. I drive my car really hard and am still on the original tranny, I am not worried if it goes becuase of the warrenty. Although I had my tranny fluid changed 10,000kms ago (at 35,000kms) it wasnt necessary and its not going to make much of a difference in the long run.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

Amsoil ATF has the same ratings as Honda Z1. I believe it's even approved by Honda. I'm a diehard Amsoil motor oil fan, but I stick with good old Honda Z1 fluid. Our tranny is very picky, no sense risking it.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Agreed.

progz

8 qts ??? Is there any thruth to this? Just did a drain and fill. Before draining, my mech and I checked the dipsitck and it is right on the second dot. After draining, we measured the drained fluid and it is exactly 3 qts.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

I drained and refilled 3 times with 8 quarts.

timmy8151

I wouldn't just use color in determining the quality of your ATF. If you really want to know how your ATF is, I'd recommend you get an oil analysis. I've used Blackstone Labs in the past and was pleased with their results. Only a UOA will be able to tell the condition of your ATF.

Here's a link to get a kit: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html

I don't work for Blackstone labs...I 've just used their services in the past

99 SSM TL

That machine (assuming were taking about the same one) has a label on it if I recall correctly "T Tech" or something to that effect. My mechanic has it & said could not do it to my car - it uses coolant lines if I'm correct. generally more expensive - had it done to my old car - you could see the old fluid coming out as the new went in on the machine - as the old fluid is pumped into the machine and new fluid pumped out of the machine.

Further can vouch - Pure Adrenaline drives his car hard.

bmoreTLS

TLMugen

Yes, the torque converter and other parts of the transmission holds fluid that doesn't drain out when you remove the drain plug, only the 3 qts of fluid in the sump drains out; all auto trannies are like this. Some tranny designs have a drain on the torque converter as well but most do not. When you do a drain and fill 3x you end up replacing over 80% of the fluid.

soccerbenk

yes if you dont believe me open up your acura manual and look at the fluid capacities it says right there its actually like 7.8 quarts but yeah

progz

[/QUOTE=99 SSM TL]My mechanic has it & said could not do it to my car - it uses coolant lines if I'm correct [/QUOTE]


ok..so let say our car has 8 qts of ATF, I've read from other posting and also as 99SSMTL has said that the flush system should not be done to our TL. So how could a 3x drain/fill work if only 3 qts is being drained? Its like filling a 2 liter bottle containing 75% dirty oil with clean oil. The clean oil mixes with the dirty oil and then you drain the 25% (3x). The probability of you getting 80% clean water is by luck. Unless the dirty tranny oil has a higher density making it settle at the bottom of the tank. (I'm confused )

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Drain, fill. Run car up to above 45 mph to lock the torque converter and let the new fluid mix with the old.

Drain, fill. Run car up to above 45 mph to lock the torque converter and let the new fluid mix with the old.

Drain, fill. Run car up to above 45 mph to lock the torque converter and let the new fulid mix with the old.


*I actually typed everything. *

I understand what you're asking, but it just works that way. That's exactly what Acura tells you to do ^^^ and it worked. By the end of the 3rd drain, the transmission fluid looked new.

progz

Thanks bro... when you say run car up to above 45 mph, can I just jack up the car and run it to 45mph and how long do I need to run it before the next drain fill?

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, but make sure it's sitting on the jack stands securely. I used a lift at a friend's shop.

Just hit like 50 mph, bring it down to like 20, go up again to 50, bring down to 20; do that a couple of more times, and the transmission fluid inside the torque converter will come out and mix with the new fluid.

99 SSM TL

ok..so let say our car has 8 qts of ATF, I've read from other posting and also as 99SSMTL has said that the flush system should not be done to our TL. So how could a 3x drain/fill work if only 3 qts is being drained? Its like filling a 2 liter bottle containing 75% dirty oil with clean oil. The clean oil mixes with the dirty oil and then you drain the 25% (3x). The probability of you getting 80% clean water is by luck. Unless the dirty tranny oil has a higher density making it settle at the bottom of the tank. (I'm confused )[/QUOTE]


Your right. Before the "T Tech" sys. and for the most part still today - people and mechanics simply changed a portion of the tranny fluid. that was considered "changing your transmission fluid". Since "T- Tech" won't work for us, that what were stuck with.

Rob's idea sounds good, but even then I don't think your gonna get 100% fresh & clean transmission fluid in there. Many people whom are enthusiastic about thier vehicles simply up the schedule for "changing" ( the 3 quart regular method) the fluid. I might actually try Rob 3X method next time I do a complete fluids change.

However, given the way Robb drives, I would think he should keep a spare tranny on hold ssomewhere. HA HA HA LOL.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I probably do need to keep a spare one. With my luck (and the way I drive ), the tranny wouldn't just fail; it would fall off the car.


Yeah, even with the 3x method, you still can't get 100% fresh fluid in there, but that's the reality of it. What can we do?

progz

Maybe this is the reason why the 5 spd tranny are failing because 75% of the fluid is always dirty (i.e., if they just do the drain/fill 1x method).

fsttyms1

Your right. Before the "T Tech" sys. and for the most part still today - people and mechanics simply changed a portion of the tranny fluid. that was considered "changing your transmission fluid". Since "T- Tech" won't work for us, that what were stuck with.

Rob's idea sounds good, but even then I don't think your gonna get 100% fresh & clean transmission fluid in there. Many people whom are enthusiastic about thier vehicles simply up the schedule for "changing" ( the 3 quart regular method) the fluid. I might actually try Rob 3X method next time I do a complete fluids change.

However, given the way Robb drives, I would think he should keep a spare tranny on hold ssomewhere. HA HA HA LOL.[/QUOTE]


the drain refill method is the best way. you dont get only the old stuff out every time but you do mix them together and it will eventually remove most of the bad. its the same with synthetic oil. adding a new quart of oil after many thousand miles will greatly extend the life of the old oil.

as for changing the tranny oil out more often wont make the tranny last longer. i did it every oil change (8000 or so miles) and that tranny lasted the least of my 3 failures.

just drive it and quit worring, its either going to fail or its not

MikePA

The capacity of the 4 speed trans is 7.6 qts. Drain and refill is 3.1 qts. Therefore, each drain/refill replaces 41% of the tranny oil. Using this percentage results in.

1x - 3.1 qts of dirty oil out (3.1 clean, 4.5 dirty)
2x - 1.8 qts of dirty oil out (41% of 4.5) resulting in 4.9 qts clean and 2.7 dirty
3x - 1.1 qts of dirty oil out (41% of 2.7) resulting in 6.0 qts clean and 1.6 dirty
4x - 0.7 qts of dirty oil out (41% of 1.6) resulting in 6.7 qts clean and 0.9 dirty
5x - 0.4 qts of dirty oil out (41% of 0.9) resulting in 7.1 qts clean and 0.5 dirty
6x - 0.2 qts of dirty oil out (41% of 0.5) resulting in 7.3 qts clean and 0.3 dirty
7x - 0.1 qts of dirty oil out (41% of 0.3) resulting in 7.4 qts clean and 0.2 dirty
8x - 0.1 qts of dirty oil out (41% of 0.2) resulting in 7.5 qts clean and 0.1 dirty

While you can never get to 100% clean oil, you can get pretty close.

progz

Not even close. By the time you do your next drain/fill the clean oil is already dirty (maybe not as dirty as the original oil). But still you are draining part of the cleaner oil in your next drain/fill. The only way to get it all out is if you can flush out the dirty oil all in one time (which obviously we cannot do on our TL)

MikePA

No, it's close. Each drain/refill is draining oil that is less and less dirty.

You do the subsequent drain refills after driving only long enough to circulate the new oil. There's no maybe about it. You are diluting the dirty oil with 41% new oil so it's not as dirty.

People have posted pictures of the oil after each drain/refill. The oil drained gets less and less dirty, which is the whole point of doing multiple drain/refills.

timmy8151

I got this link from another forum, but here is a MS Excel Spreadsheet for calculating ATF changes and new fluid levels:

Tranny Calculator

MikePA

Thank you for proving my point.

progz

Saw this article, has anyone tried this:
After draining the fluid.....
"Fill the transmission to the proper level using the proper type of transmission fluid. Then disconnect the return transmission line (the line in which transmission fluid flows from the transmission cooler back to the transmission), located near the bottom of the radiator. There's two transmission lines connected in this location, and the bottom line is usually the return line. Once the line has been disconnected, attach a clear piece of tubing to the transmission cooler, the same diameter as the transmission line, approximately 5-6 feet long, using the transmission line clamp to secure it.

Place the unattached end of the clear tube in a plastic, one gallon milk container and place it where it can be seen (like not under the car).

For the next portion of the procedure, make sure that the parking brake is set prior to continuing. Start the engine. The transmission may have to be put into "Neutral" or "Drive" in order to pump the fluid from the transmission. I usually put mine in "Neutral" to accomplish this step. While the transmission is pumping out fluid, you can monitor approximately how much fluid has been pumped out by looking at how much fluid has been pumped into the plastic milk jug. While fluid is being pumped out, slowly add new fluid to the transmission at about the same rate as its being pumped out. This keeps the fluid level at, or near the proper level. You can see the condition of the fluid through the clear tubing as its being pumped out.

After approximately 4 to 5 quarts (obviously, if it's more than 4 quarts, you'll have to turn of the engine, and fetch another milk jug) of fluid have been pumped out, you should notice a change in the color of the fluid. It should go from a brownish red color, to a bright pinkish red color. When this happens, all of the old fluid has been replaced with new fluid.

Be careful not to overfill the tranny during this procedure.

When completed, reconnect the transmission return line to the transmission cooler. Check the fluid level as you normally would, and add fluid as required. "

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

If you put it in neutral, then the fluid inside the torque converter is still trapped. If you put it in Drive, then you're gonna have to drive the car, refill the transmission, and drain all at the same time.

Bad directions. Don't try it. It's not any better than drain/refill x3, without getting the torque converter going in-between... translation = a total waste of time.

Even if you did it on jackstands or a lift, I still wouldn't recommend it; that's like doing an oil change while the engine is running. You ever try pooping while eating? Just ain't gonna work out.