hunter001

Motortrend May 2001 issue:

0-60----6.28 Secs
Qtr Mile----14.72 at 97.6mph
Braking 60-0---- 127feet

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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

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Guest

That's very impressive, especially the trap speed. Do remember that Motor Trend corrects all their ets/trap speeds to standard atmospheric conditions.


Dave

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96 Maxima SE
14.73@93.93mph
y-pipe, b-pipe, drop-in filter

FlyingPig

60-0 braking is down to 127 feet?
Wasn't '01 TL 148 feet?

hunter001

Yup !!! And I believe it tied with the braking figures of the BMW 330i (manual version), which they tested at the same time as the TL-S



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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

BarryH

The MT article was a comparison. Where did the TL-S rank?

Guest

I tested mine and got 0-60 in 9.2 sec. What do you think is wrong guys?

Guest

pjonkheer, you may have made a mistake in asking that question in this forum...

BarryH

Especially when Mr. Hyde said he would post your phone numbers on the board if you came back... You don't stike me as very bright dude. By the way, how's that Regal holding up? I hear they have a Joseph Aboud edition coming out. Bet you're excited.

Guest

Barry,

I am glad you don't "stike" me as a bright dude. I certainly "stike" you as an a$$hole. The Regal is good. I got it all waxed up. tell ya momma I will pick her up at 7:30 tonight.

TL-SorMaxima

Let's see how long it takes the Maxima whiners to show up with their 0-60 of 6.7 with a 5-Speed now! Not bad for an automatic, huh?

hunter001

The TL-s with Navigation($ 33,250)ranked fourth - the other competitors being the Audi A6 2.7T 6-speed Manual without Navigation ($46,830), BMW 330i (5-speed Manual without Navigation - $40,285), Mercedes Benz C320 automatic without Navigation ($42,685), Saab 9-3 Viggen - 5-speed manual without Navigation ($39,020), Volvo S60 T5 without Navigation - 5-speed manual ($35,275).....

Basically if they did not include the Navigation system, they would be comparing a $31,250 car with $40,000 and above cars....what is that ? 30% more expensive ?!!! wow !!! that is really fair !!!

Also, the BMW 330i (a majority of whom are sold in this country with the 5-speed automatic like the TL-s), needed the manual 5-speed transmission just to keep up with the 3.2TL-S....It's time of 6.1 Secs 0-60 with the 5-speed manual, was comparable to the TL-s equipped with the automatic. If the beemer were equipped with the available 5-speed automatic (as the majority of the 3-series BMWs are sold), then the TL-s would have thrashed and humiliated it in acceleration - even though the BMW would edge the TL-s out in handling in bone-dry conditions....especially since it is a sub-compact (or is it compact ?)....

Later...AH

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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

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vandy786

Either you don't know how do drive a car (even automatics) or you posted the 0-60 time for your Geo Metro.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

No no, the Maxima owners are gunna come on here pretty soon talkin' about how "weather conditions" and road conditions and all these different conditions led Motortrend to get that 6.28/14.7 figure -- and they'll talk about how Motortrend isn't accurate and all that -- and how they brake-torque on acceleration. Jeeez.

I think the value of the TL-S is unmistakable when you compare it to the BMW, Saab, Volvo, etc... You're saving up to 13K and at LEAST $5K --

And did you notice something, MOTORTREND doesn't compare the TL-S to a Maxima -- hmmm.. they rate it against Beemers and Mercedes'. It's unmistakable that the Maxima is a GREAT car and good value -- but it's clearly in another auto category -- believe what you will, flame all you want!



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2002 TL Type S
White Diamond Pearl
Parchment

Mr Hyde

I believe the Type-S has better brakes than the TL-P.

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Just call me..................Mr Hyde
TL Type-S Moderator
02 Aegean Blue TL Type-S with Navi
Accord Forum Moderator/Honda-Acura.net
96 Sherwood Green Accord EX

OldGuy

When you say you believe the TLS has better brakes is that based on specs or is it a personal opinion. The rotors look the same size as my '99 TL, although I have not measured them.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Actually, they are in fact bigger calipers and brake pads. From what I understand about the differences between the 2001 CL-S and CL, these brakes should be identical to the CL-S. The press kit makes mention of them:
www.acura-tl.com/2002_TL-S.htm

Steveb

If the TLS scored that high in acceleration and breaking then how did it end up fourth? What did it score low on? I think many posters on here put to much emphasis on HP. Any car company can put a big engine in a car. Not everyone that owns a TLS(including myself) races it. I think the average Joe that purchases a car is not going to notice the difference between 0 to 60 in 6 sec and 0 to 60 in 7.5 sec. How did it rate on handling, refinement, and fun to drive? These are things people notice.

I remember back in the 80's when the Preludes were really popular. Back then I think they only had 110HP. However, people loved them because they handled so well and they were fun to drive despite having unexceptional pickup.

Give me BMW handling on my TLS and I would settle for 210 HP for the same price.

Your point is well taken regarding overall value. That's why I bough mine.

sneuxstorm

You gotta wonder why MT wont test the 330i against something like a S4. They cost the same....should perform the same. I would rather save the extra $10k and buy another Honda...a 600F4i, 900RR, or a VTR.

I've driven a 330i with their "manumatic" transmission. You could measure the shifts in geologic time. I like the TL-S much better.

HokieTypeS

Hey! First of all, I think the TL-S and the CL-S are awesome cars! Great bang and content for the buck! But I'm also a Maxima guy too. The same way you Acura guys believe it is not a apples-to-apples comparison when your $33k TL-S's are compared to $40k luxury/performance cars, you're doing the same thing by comparing $26k Maximas with $33k TL-S's. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of Maxima guys out there that will talk smack too, but we all want to think we have the best car for the money. Isn't that what being an automotive enthusiast is about? Anyways, I'll talk all day long about how Maxima's whip up on Camrys and Accords. I'll also talk all day long about how TL-S's whip up on ES300's and I30's. But if ya wanna talk apples-to-apples, the Maxima is the best sports sedan under $30k, the TL-S's are the best sports sedan under $40k. Just my two cents.

RAdams

Hokie I agree with you... However, it was some other "Maxima guys" who started the Maxima vs. TL debate. I've maintained all along that the I30 is Infiniti's/Nissan's competitor for the TL. It's got similar features and a similar price.

If you read some of the threads here you'll see that several Maxima owners were simply posting quarter mile times and then telling us how much money we "wasted" on our cars. Glad to see you're not immature like them.

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2000 WDP 3.2TL non-NAV

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PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Hokie,

I think that is a perfect way to finally end the debate: The Max is the BEST sports sedan under $30K, and the TL-S is the BEST under $40K. Sometimes when you step back, it all becomes incredibly simple. <no sarcasm at all is intended in this post>



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2002 TL Type S
White Diamond Pearl
Parchment

Guest

I've got no problems with Motor Trend's times for the TL-S. Those numbers are right in line with what they got out of the CL-S. Now I just wonder if anyone at my track can hit those numbers with their CL-S or TL-S.

The problem with the TL-S seems to be it's ability to get off the line quickly. A 14.77@98mph indicates massive topend and problems getting off the line. The 6.3 0-60 is really good, but the 0-30mph isn't very impressive. You've got to love that VTEC power. The advantage the 5 speed Maxima has is it's torque multiplication in 1st gear and the ability to launch at any rpm. In the ultimate search for a low et while staying naturally aspirated, I think the Maxima will do better. Simply bolt on some drag radials and launch at 4500 rpms and you're good for some very low 14s. There have already been 4th and 5th gen Maxima's hitting 14.3s with 2.1 60 foots with simple intake and exhaust mods (we don't have headers). One auto 97 GXE with a built tranny (stall converter, valvebody, slicks) hit 14.1s.

This isn't the first time MT has thrown in an "underdog" into the comparison. In almost every comparo they run, there is always a car that is $5000-7000 cheaper that usually outperforms the big dogs. I agree, the I30 is in the same class as the TL/TL-S. The I30 can hold it's own against the TL, but won't hold a candle to the TL-S. The Maxima is in a different class all together even though it's the same chassis.


Dave

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96 Maxima SE
14.73@93.93mph
y-pipe, b-pipe, drop-in filter

Steveb

Not quite. The TL-S might be the best value under $40K but I don't think it's the best sports car under $40k. I say this as an owner of a TL-S. In my opinion, I think the BMW 325 is a better sports car than the TL-S. It has better handling and is more agile. Yes, the TL-S has better acceleration but acceleration alone does not make a sports car. When I take a sharp turn in my TL-S I don't get the gratifying feeling as I would in a BMW. The TL-S feels heavy while the BMW seemingly straightens out those curves.

hunter001

I agree wholeheartedly with the above. The TL-s cannot match the 50/50 weight distribution of the BMW...nor can the FWD set-up work as well in performance driving as the BMW (with RWD).

Actually, the FWD is a pretty good compromise for MOST drivers since it works reasonably well when the climate grows nasty, while the RWD set-up in most BMWs (not AWD BMW), would not be that comfortable in lousy snowy/wet conditions. The FWD setup will not yield as good a performance driving "feel" as the RWD cars, even though terrific FWD cars like the Acura Integra Type-R, does exist, that can out-handle pretty much everything else on the road.

Incidentally, in SCCA Pro Racing's Speedvision World Challenge race series, FWD Acura Integra Type R's have won the Touring Car championship every single year since the car's 1997 debut. They dominated the 1998, 1999 and 2000 race seasons, taking the first, second and third slots in the final standings. Pretty impressive for a FWD car competing with a bunch of RWD competitors including offerings from BMW....



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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

hunter001

To add to the above, if Honda or Toyota had manufactured the BMW 3/5 series, I would have had it in my garage right now. I am not too sure about BMWs being as problem-free as the Japanese cars. But as a leased car, I would certainly love the BMWs but since I am not a fan of financing/leasing, it was never an option for me.

Few cars from Honda - except the S2000 and the NSX, which are way beyond any BMW including the M5 - offer the satisfaction of driving any of the cars from BMW.



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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

Guest

Well a 6.3 0-60 is very nice, there is a quicker sedan for much less. The Subaru WRX hit a 5.5 0-60 and a 14.5 in Autoweek, pulls .90 g's with the 17" wheel upgrade, and costs about $25K. The WRX is in a different class, BUT I don't think you can say the TL-S has ultimate bragging rights for a $32K sedan


Dave

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96 Maxima SE
14.73@93.93mph
y-pipe, b-pipe, drop-in filter

Guest

dave,

come on man. We are tying to get away from that kind of stuff. OK, the bragging rights for the TL-S may be questionable, but you do have the bragging rights for the $10-12K category.

Guest

Is this a new Subaru or something? I never heard of such a car.

PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

Comparing the 325i to the TL-S -- ok, but then again, BMW has been the industry standard for sports-sedan performance/handling since the dawn of the 3rd gen. 3-series in '93 (Year??). All carmags have used this series as the proverbial "yardstick" with which to rate all new brave applicants in the sports sedan category. Until recently, only the Lexus IS300 has questioned the 3-series' authority in the SportsSedan category (sub-40K).

However, rating the FWD TL-S (62/38) weight-split against a 50/50 split 325i? Well, alright, but then we have to consider so many things like acceleration (i know, we drown this term out), five-speed vs. auto (some people just won't drive stick!), ammenities vs. price, and roominess/interior volume.

I still think the TL-S, despite it's flaws (FWD, F/R weight-ratio, suspension, ...) is the best bang for the buck in that category. If anyone truly wants the handling prowess of a BMW -- heck, you're more of a driving enthusiast than I, and you've every right to put the BMW above the TL-S in performance ability. For those who were considering the ES300, the I30, and TL/P as other options before buying this car (like me)... then the TL-S is just that much sweeter!

hunter001

Another point to consider is that the TL-s is a very fast and athletic family car that can hold its own against a lot of much more expensive competitors....the BMW is a sub-compact, which would be a lot more agile than a larger car like the TL/TL-s.

For example, the BMW 750iL may have a 50/50 weight distribution but it is nowhere near as agile as the 3 series BMW or the Acura Integras, that are a lot smaller....

So we should always factor in size when comparing the handling prowess of automobiles. The TL-s should be compared to the 530i and not the 330i, since they are comparable in size and weight....even though the 530i is priced a lot higher....comparing the large and heavy TL-s to the 330i is being un-fair to the TL-s (my take !!!)

just my 2c

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2000 Naples Gold 3.2TL/Navi - Factory Stock but with up-graded tires

GRV6668

This is a reply to :
Well a 6.3 0-60 is very nice, there is a quicker sedan for much less. The Subaru WRX hit a 5.5 0-60 and a 14.5 in Autoweek, pulls .90 g's with the 17" wheel upgrade, and costs about $25K. The WRX is in a different class, BUT I don't think you can say the TL-S has ultimate bragging rights for a $32K sedan

That's fine and all but a subaru WRX is a totally different car. It's much smaller and not what most people would call a very practical car. The TLS on the other hand is a high spirited sports sedan that allows for many uses. I am married and have two kids. This TLS allows me the opportunity to have a 'SPORT' vehicle while still allowing for practicality. I may bring a new view to this forum , but nonetheless , many people out there will be buying the TLS because it has four doors , a spicy engine , big trunck and is very luxurious. I would have to think that it definately shouldn't be compared to a sub-compact car.

This is my 2 cents as well. :-)

dcdomain

Well I guess the Subaru Sportwagon version of the Impreza (comes in WRX form right?) would be pretty practical.

But come on, I'm a fan of the Subaru, but those things are as small as Civics. Definitely not in the same league as the Acura-TL...

edit: by the way, for those times for the TL-S, was it in auto mode or sport shift?

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PeterUbers

iTrader: (1)

I don't think it would matter if it was in SS or D5. I DO think that VSA was diabled to allow the wheels to spin freely and allow for the best take-off. Remember that they "brake-torque" these cars and rev the engine slightly to get the best launch -- now this isn't the BEST thing to do on a daily basis, but it works when Acura loans a TL-S to Motortrend in hopes they'll write the greatest things about the car. You wouldn't and shouldn't do what they did on a regular basis to achieve that 0 to 60 time -- it unnecessarily overheats the transmission! The time of 6.4 to 6.6 is MUCH more realistic for the Type S, and I proved that to myself when I raced my buddy's supercharged Regal -- which has been rated over and over again by countless magazines since the dawn of the supercharged 3800 Series II in '97. His 0/60 is 6.5 at best -- I'm sure w/ some slicks and the stickiest track conditions he could pull a 6.3 or 6.4 w/o brake-torquing the tranny.

We were dead-EVEN in the two times we raced -- we both had great reaction times, it was 55 degrees out, however, we didn't make it past 70 mph due to cops in the area. I did feel like I was pulling away towards the end of 2nd gear (feelin' the VTEC), but that's where it ended.
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2002 TL Type S
White Diamond Pearl
Parchment


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Guest

You know what is the best thing about that 0-60 time? It is not that it is better than a Maxima, can beat a supercharged Civic, or that Acura has bragging rights. It is that me, you and anyone else can get one for around 30,000. Think about a few years back. Getting a car as luxurious as this, as spacious as this, and as reliable as this was not in existence to the normal joe. Payments are not cheap, but they can be affordable to many. We should all be loving the fact that we don't have to get a old NSX or Z (both small as crap) to get this kind of performance.

Guest

For those of you who haven't already read it, the Motor Trend "Sport Sedan Road Trip" comparison (featuring the Acura TL-S) can be accessed here, in scanned form:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...a=12463710&f=0

And since the question went unanswered, I'll spare inquisitors the suspense: 4th.

traffic15

Very interesting article - thanx for scanning it in. But I agree with the M/T staffer Brad Long, for MY money - the TL Type-S is the best of the bunch!