kensteele

Fortunately there are a lot of citizens in this country that understand the same way we do, too. The community is not made up of pro-police (can do no wrong), follow the rules to the letter of the law, if you can't drive, park; what's wrong with the [foreign] old lady, you get what you deserve, next time you'll succumb mentality. Juries and prosecutors and judges all over think in part like us [older] people and that's what going to prevent this sort of thing from getting out of hand (turning driving offenses into criminal activity). Again, not that I don't believe in the law and the rules, and I'm by no means a cops hater, but I have a different way of thinking about things and I think perhaps my way of thinking about things represents a [larger] part of society. Open your mind and realize that different people act and think in different ways, it's not wrong; it's just might be unlawful.

Shoofin

Kensteele, it was posted already before in this thread...but once again, put yourself in the cops shoes... A driver who you are flashing lights behind and he probably went on the loud speaker telling her to pull over, but she probably didn't understand english to know what he was saying..Does HE know that? NO! Cop's put their a$$es on the line every day and most of you don't know half the truth!
Ed
P.S. For those who don't know, I work with the NYPD and deal with similar situations as well.

Lawaia

Just another frickin' reason why I am soooo happy to live in Hawaii. We don't have this kind of crap happening here. It just wouldn't be tolerated one bit! No offense but it sounds like pig-headed over-anxious rent-a-cops trying to BE the law and not enforce it.
I agree in taking someone off the street with force ONLY IF they are posing a danger to others on the road. What next....ambulance drivers with off-road pipe bumpers so they can ram YOU when you don't get out of their way?!? This is so pathetic!

SL1200MK4

This is pathetic... it's not even funny... I hate to say this but maybe they rammed her car because it is a Lexus. Yes, the cop does have the right to do everything he did to her. Yet at the same time is it necessary to do so? I doubt it. If your vidual signal can't get them notice, perhaps you should try some audial alarm such as siren BEFORE YOU RAM THE CAR!!!

Imagine if you are inside your brand new Lamborghini, which got basically no rearview, you didn't see the cop flashing his light behind you. He followed you and rammed your brand new Lamborghini, do you think you deserve it? What if that the engine was way too loud that you didn't even hear the siren? The car is legal dispite that it's loud and got basically no rearview... Think about it guys...

You might not notice them when you crank up your system and not checking your rearview mirrow...

I do have to say that the officer has every right to protect himself which is NOT to pull beside or in front of her... But I would argue on the fact that they did not try anything audial before they rammed her car...

Both of them are wrong in this case, JMHO.........

and you people please stop saying that she deserves it... Because you never know what's gonna happen to you.

And with the upmost respect to all the officers... There are good ones, and there are tons of those bad ones, too. I know a few cops, and of course dealt with them on few occasions. I deserve to be in jail for some of the things I did, yet at the same time some of them gave me a hassle for minor things...

I have a lot more respect to fire fighters, and all thsoe special force whoe died in the Golf war and their names ain't even mentioned...

BigPimpsCLS

Nova, how do you know this lady is telling you the whole truth?? People tend to make their stories seem righteous, even though they were wrong.
Since we were not there, we are all speculating, but not pulling over for 10 minutes cannot be justified, no matter where she is from. And I think pulling over for police is a universal thing more or less so she has to be oblivious to everything, no matter what country she is from.

Did cop tried to BE the law and did not like the fact that she was driving a Lex, maybe, again speculation and we can't really say anything in that regard.

Kensteele: In your example about not pulling over for 3 miles and trying to go home, I am really hoping no one does this because then they are making a poor choice and not following the rules and taking the law into their own hands. When cop pulls you over, regardless of how far you are from your house, you should pull over, simple as that.
Now how I understand what you are saying, is that people dont follow the "laws" because they either don't believe in them or are afraid of the cops, or whatever reason, they do what they want and lets say just keep on driving. Well, that is when their new Lexuses get rammed, what else is the cop supposed to do. Because in this country while the saying is: innocent until proven guilty, we go more by 'guilty until proven innocent'. Not pulling over made her guilty, and thus the ramming because I would like to be an optimist and believe that cop did not have an alternate reason to ram her, but was just acting according to protocol.

SL1200MK4

Well I guess the bottomline is that...

1. We can't really judge her or the cop in this case. I mean the cop did everything within his right and everything he should have done, except that he could have tried to use the siren or something audial (according to the story). At the same time she could've simply pull over, and let the cop go by (when she assume that the cop is not after her). We have to look from both point of view. Not saying that there aren't stupid people and bad cops out there, and vice versa.

2. People stop saying that the cop is an ASSO, and please stop saying that she deserves it. Especially we don't know the whole story and the whole truth...

No matter what it is, this is still sad...

Could have been a lot worse... Simply because of misunderstanding.

VTEC Animal

Yeah, that's the problem with people driving these days, they won't pull over for nothing.... When you see an emergency or law enforcement vehicle with it's lights on you pull over, IMMEDIATELY! I swear I see people holding up amblances and firetrucks out here all the time..... She should have enough sense to pull over and let him pass if she doesn't think he's pulling her over.... No offense, but she didn't get anything she didn't deserve. Ignorance is not an excuse.

iatacs19

sometimes cars can be really quiet inside.
how hard would it be for the cop to pull beside her and open the window to motion for her to pull over or stop? i thought "police officers" needed to met certain qualifications....
i think that if the lady was really so "dumb" as a lot of you claim, then the police officer could have been smarter and done something in response to her stupidity to avoid damaging both cars, remember there must have been damage to the police car and that is coming out of our taxes to pay for it. if people could be only a little bit more discreet.

peace.

SL1200MK4

I feel you....... and that's basically what I was trying to say... except that I didn't thought about the demage on the police car... cuz they basically have the crash bars... and they usually only get like minor dents... They push the hear of your car side way. Basically causing oversteer sort of speak...

Austin519

What in the hell is wrong with you guys...geez...some people in this post are idiots...okay a little background (and the guy who was a cop here should know this)

LAW says you are not allowed to fire UNLESS they fire or have intent to fire a weapon or do other bodily harm to you...go read the rules...she isn't LUCKY to haven't been shot at...if they had shot at her I would hope they'd spend the rest of their lives in jail. Two of my GaPD friends gawked at this post. Another thing...aside from doing what sounded like tailing her for 10 mins, they are SUPPOSED to pull up next to her and signal her (hand motions) to pull over, as well as bring out the blowhorn. Period. They are also not allowed to ram her for having a 1 day expired temp tag...after just following her for 10 mins. Geez people, you need to get your heads out of the mud. What they did was totally against the law!!! You guys are in a car forum...please at least know the rules of the road. And those of you that called his mother names, or stupid...I don't know where you're from, but I'm from the south...and I'll beat every one of you bloody for calling a woman that. Shame on you!!!

NovaWhite: Press charges. They need to be filed. My GaPD friends said that they ram as a last resort. If she wasn't speeding, and the only reason they had to pull her over at all was because of the expired tag...they should have done all the stuff I said above (pulling up alongside, blowhorn)...and then they should have gotten ahead of her and slowed down so as to force her to stop. They ram drug lords and car theifs and murders and bank robbers, not little old ladies with a 1 day expired tag driving under the speed limit.

Second, file charges about them pulling a gun on her. Emotional stress and illegal procedure. Those cops were nuts!

Screw them over...me and the two GaPD friends hope they get booted from the force...

Austin519

SL1200MK4

Well well.... like I said......... this is sad.........

Austin519

Amen

kensteele

Well since you've admitted that people don't pull over and they are ignorant, what do you suggest we do for the penalty? Ram them? Shoot them? Beat them up?

You keep quoting the law, we all here know the law; nobody is saying that isn't the law. We are debating what do you do for people who don't obey the law.

So your best friend visits from Mexico and in Mexico the cops told him "you'd better not stop for those State Troopers, they will beat you up. I seen it on the news last night. Just go home where you will be safe there." Your friend didn't stop last night and now he is dead, the police shot him. I guess it is his fault, huh?

BNut

If your friend is stupid enough to believe the cops in Mexico.... well what can I say but he had it coming!

I don't care if I'm in communist China, I'm sure as hell gonna do my best to make the local police force as happy as possible.

I say just shoot them all, it would help reduce jail over crowding right?

kensteele

I never said she did the right thing. I know the law; but that's not what we are debating here. Why do you keep trying to prove your point by quoting the law? We're trying to discuss what should be done to law-breakers. Get past the law, please. You can hope that people don't do this, but the fact is they do. So what are you gonna do? Poor choice are made every day. Why is a poor traffic choice any different than a poor financial choice or a poor education/school choice or a poor "I'm getting married tomorrow" choice?

What else should they do? Follow her till she stops? Follow her till she runs out of gas? Take down the license plate and pay her a visit tomorrow? Send her a notice in the mail telling her that her license is now suspended? Summons her to report to court next week to answer charges? Try to call her on her car phone? Have another cruiser set up a road block? Spike strips? There's all kinds of non-lethal options and the police s/b smart enough to apply them. But I guess you don't agree with the above because they don't help drive the point home, they don't make a statement, not enough payback or retribution. Sure it will get the job done but it won't teach them a lesson, huh?

I believe in payback and retaliation and physical force and violence against terrorists, not US citizens. She was hardly a criminal and probably didn't deserve any more than a ticket at best. Not stopping for the police and not running away at the same time is routinely a verbal warning for most citizens anyway. Why should she be treated any differently?

Look at it this way: You are driving along the highway and then all of a sudden you see two crusiers with lights blaring and you try to pull over. A Lexus that didn't pull over runs past you and then all of a sudden one of the cruiser rams the Lexus and it veers off the roadway, careens into a ditch and it flips over, both the driver and the occupant were thrown, the driver is in critical and the passenger is fatal. You watch in horror and the medivac chopper flys away, minutes later you overhear the a sergeant say he just heard the patient was pronounced. A reporter on the scene asks you, what happened:

1)The police rammed a Lexus that contained two suspected drug dealers that pulled away from a traffic stop after the dogs hit on the trunk.
2)The police rammed a Lexus that tried to run over a local police sergeant who flagged them down at a sobriety check point.
3)The police rammed a Lexus that had an APB on two (armed and dangerous) men and a vehicle that fit the description heading in the same direction.
4)The police rammed a Lexus of the Vice President of 3M and the CFO who was trying to make a board meeting and didn't want to stop because they were just 3 miles from headquarters and the meeting starts in 5 minutes.
5)The police rammed a Lexus with a little old lady driving and her middle aged daughter. No warrants. No APBs. No BOLOs. No traffic violations. No profiling. Only a broken tail light.

Of course, your answer is "well it could have been all of the above. And they all deserved it too."

I'm thru with this thread, you guys go ahead and keep arguing.

BigPimpsCLS

Id like to believe 4 and 5 are unrealistic and CEO and CFO would stop, no meeting is THAT important that you need to run from the police to get to it. And you need to stop using the whole 3 miles example, because three miles takes a long time, depending on traffic.

Just answer me this question: Why did not this women pulled over and is it ok to not follow the law and pull over only when you feel that its appropriate like in your ealier example of a guy coming to his house before stopping.

Lawaia

Ain't that what they did when OJ was on the run with Al in the White Bronco?? Didn't see LAPD running their a$$ off the road.

kensteele

There's a difference between running from the police and not yielding to police. Very few people run, more often [some] do not yield. If you can just understand that point, I think this whole situation will be more clear to you.

You said: "Just answer me this question: Why did not this women pulled over and is it ok to not follow the law and pull over only when you feel that its appropriate like in your ealier example of a guy coming to his house before stopping.'

My answer is: "I don't know why she didn't pull over. There could be a lot of reasons, there could be only a few. It's not ok for her not to pull over. It's not ok to disobey the law. It's not ok to not follow the law. It's not ok to pull over only when you feel like it. It's not ok to go home first before stopping. It's not ok to ram somebody's vehicle or shoot them if they happen to break this law."

VTEC Animal

Yes, the law enforcement officers could have handled things differently, but they have department policies that were created for very specific reasons and carefully thought over. My suspect is that their policy is to LIGHTLY nudge or ram the car to get the drivers attention, or do a manuver where they cause the car to spin out (a tactic the CHP uses here in California when someone won't pull over, but this usually results in very minor damage to a car - bumper indentations or scraches). My guess is that they hit her car too hard to cause the car so much damage that it can't be driven. Really though, had she pulled over this would have never happened. The fact of the matter is too many people get drivers licenses and don't know the law, they don't know to pull over for emergency vehicles whether it's for a cop car pulling them over, or an ambulance. If people would pull off to the side of the road instead of driving on then things like this wouldn't happen, and maybe some people wouldn't die because the ambulance got their on time instead of 10 minutes late because someone wouldn't let them pass.

BigPimpsCLS

Agreed here. I really did not expect you to have an aswer here but I am sure you understand how we are both facing the same question of Why?