Mike@Comptech..
02-01-2001, 08:39 PM
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Mike@Comptech..
Mike,
I am having a problem with the inner tread wearing in a "cupping". Here is full detail on the problem. Any suggestions would be appreciated:
TO EINSTIEN
I bought a set of Bridgestone Potenza 225/55Z16's and had them mounted on the stock TL rims back in October of 2000. A few weeks later I had Comptech springs installed. I later had the car realigned and was having no problems. Well, a couple of weeks ago, I noticed the road noise increasing (sort of a humming sound) and a bit of a vibration. I decided to have this checked out and the tire dealer I bought the tires from said I was getting a "cupping" type wear on the inner part of the tires. It is like an up and down type wear just on the inner part. When I asked him what causes this on tires with roughly 10,000 miles on them he said the wider tires may be causing them to "tilt" in somewhat, thus causing the inner wear. I went back the next day and had the balanced checked, and they were balanced okay. I have also had the alignment checked and that was okay. Do you think the tire shop is right? Could the wider tires and the car being lowered (with Comptech springs) cause the tires to tilt in causing this wear? If so, is there anything I could do about it? I would hate to have to go back to stock sized (205/60) tires after feeling the handling of the 225/55's.
EINSTIEN'S REPLY:
I couldn't tell you more than you already know. I didn't modify my suspension, so I don't see the the cupping you are talking about. Do you rotate the tires? [Yes, I have had them rotated twice] That might help some. [and it didn't help]
When you changed the springs, did you change the shocks too? [No] Usually shocks are designed to work with certain springs. When you change either one without changing the other, you end up changing the resonance of the whole suspension system. Vibrations can be amplified instead of quelled at certain speeds or road conditions. This is why I don't modify my suspension. There is so much that goes into suspension design by the manufacturer (modeling, calculus-based analysis, etc.) that I can't imagine a genuine improvement in *overall* performance from the aftermarket.
A good sign that a spring manufacturer knows what they are doing is that they sell complete KITS, which include springs and shocks as a tuned set.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
TO SNOOK:
I have been having problems with my tires wearing on the inner tread. I emailed Enstien about it and have included with this email. If you would, please read about my problem and let me know if you think new shocks will help. My car will be 2 years old in May, so the new springs very well may have put an end to the stock shocks. If I did get some new ones, which would you recommend to use with the Comptech springs? I am thinking about getting the Tokico non-adjustables. Are the adjustable shocks way better than non-adjustable? Anyway, here is the email to Paul and his reply. Your input would be greatly appreciated!
SNOOK'S REPLY:
I have never heard a problem with anyone with Comptech springs on there TL causing them a problem with premature tire wear It is either one of 2 things Your alignment is off Or your toe is off With these up to spec, your tires will wear normal
As for shocks, I would only replace yours if they were bad, or on the way out And yes, I would also go with the Tokico I would only go with the KONI if you wanted to adjust the firmness of the rideand maybe drop or raise the car a little, because they have different perch settings that you can choose to change the height
if you have any other questions please email me
Tim
TO SNOOK:
Tim, I had my alignment checked on 1/26/01 and the front toe was out of range (0.36 on the left and -.023 on the right; range is -0.08 to 0.08). The thing is I just had the car aligned on12/8/00 a few weeks after getting the Comptech springs installed. Why would it be so out of wack again? I don't want to spend $80.00 a month keeping the car in alignment.
Anyway, I have been doing some research, and I am probably going to be considered an expert on the topic before all is said and done. I did find some others having the same problem:
http://www.acura-tl.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002683.html http://www.acura-tl.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002961.html http://www.acura-tl.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003127.html http://www.acura-tl.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002166.html http://www.acura-tl.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003271.html
I think I am going to order some new shocks. After I get them installed, I am going take it back to the tire/alignment shop and have the swap the tires up so that the inside tread become the outside tread and then have the car realigned. I may ask them how much they would charge me to just get the front toe checked periodically. What does that sound like? I can't afford to buying $600 worth of tires evey couple of months!!
Get back to me and let me know what you think, Tim.
Byron
MIKE, DO YOU HAVE ANY INSIGHT?!?!
------------------
This photo is "pre-mods"; "post-mods" photo coming......
1999 Acura 3.2TL
Black with Ebony
Bridgestone Potenza RE730 (size: 225/55ZR-16 on stock rims)
AEM Cold Air Intake and Bi-Pass Valve
Comptech Headers
Mugen Exhaust
Comptech Sport Springs
Comptech Swaybars
Wings West Spoiler
Burlwood Knob
I am having a problem with the inner tread wearing in a "cupping". Here is full detail on the problem. Any suggestions would be appreciated:
TO EINSTIEN
I bought a set of Bridgestone Potenza 225/55Z16's and had them mounted on the stock TL rims back in October of 2000. A few weeks later I had Comptech springs installed. I later had the car realigned and was having no problems. Well, a couple of weeks ago, I noticed the road noise increasing (sort of a humming sound) and a bit of a vibration. I decided to have this checked out and the tire dealer I bought the tires from said I was getting a "cupping" type wear on the inner part of the tires. It is like an up and down type wear just on the inner part. When I asked him what causes this on tires with roughly 10,000 miles on them he said the wider tires may be causing them to "tilt" in somewhat, thus causing the inner wear. I went back the next day and had the balanced checked, and they were balanced okay. I have also had the alignment checked and that was okay. Do you think the tire shop is right? Could the wider tires and the car being lowered (with Comptech springs) cause the tires to tilt in causing this wear? If so, is there anything I could do about it? I would hate to have to go back to stock sized (205/60) tires after feeling the handling of the 225/55's.
EINSTIEN'S REPLY:
I couldn't tell you more than you already know. I didn't modify my suspension, so I don't see the the cupping you are talking about. Do you rotate the tires? [Yes, I have had them rotated twice] That might help some. [and it didn't help]
When you changed the springs, did you change the shocks too? [No] Usually shocks are designed to work with certain springs. When you change either one without changing the other, you end up changing the resonance of the whole suspension system. Vibrations can be amplified instead of quelled at certain speeds or road conditions. This is why I don't modify my suspension. There is so much that goes into suspension design by the manufacturer (modeling, calculus-based analysis, etc.) that I can't imagine a genuine improvement in *overall* performance from the aftermarket.
A good sign that a spring manufacturer knows what they are doing is that they sell complete KITS, which include springs and shocks as a tuned set.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
TO SNOOK:
I have been having problems with my tires wearing on the inner tread. I emailed Enstien about it and have included with this email. If you would, please read about my problem and let me know if you think new shocks will help. My car will be 2 years old in May, so the new springs very well may have put an end to the stock shocks. If I did get some new ones, which would you recommend to use with the Comptech springs? I am thinking about getting the Tokico non-adjustables. Are the adjustable shocks way better than non-adjustable? Anyway, here is the email to Paul and his reply. Your input would be greatly appreciated!
SNOOK'S REPLY:
I have never heard a problem with anyone with Comptech springs on there TL causing them a problem with premature tire wear It is either one of 2 things Your alignment is off Or your toe is off With these up to spec, your tires will wear normal
As for shocks, I would only replace yours if they were bad, or on the way out And yes, I would also go with the Tokico I would only go with the KONI if you wanted to adjust the firmness of the rideand maybe drop or raise the car a little, because they have different perch settings that you can choose to change the height
if you have any other questions please email me
Tim
TO SNOOK:
Tim, I had my alignment checked on 1/26/01 and the front toe was out of range (0.36 on the left and -.023 on the right; range is -0.08 to 0.08). The thing is I just had the car aligned on12/8/00 a few weeks after getting the Comptech springs installed. Why would it be so out of wack again? I don't want to spend $80.00 a month keeping the car in alignment.
Anyway, I have been doing some research, and I am probably going to be considered an expert on the topic before all is said and done. I did find some others having the same problem:
http://www.acura-tl.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002683.html http://www.acura-tl.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002961.html http://www.acura-tl.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003127.html http://www.acura-tl.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002166.html http://www.acura-tl.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003271.html
I think I am going to order some new shocks. After I get them installed, I am going take it back to the tire/alignment shop and have the swap the tires up so that the inside tread become the outside tread and then have the car realigned. I may ask them how much they would charge me to just get the front toe checked periodically. What does that sound like? I can't afford to buying $600 worth of tires evey couple of months!!
Get back to me and let me know what you think, Tim.
Byron
MIKE, DO YOU HAVE ANY INSIGHT?!?!
------------------
This photo is "pre-mods"; "post-mods" photo coming......
1999 Acura 3.2TL
Black with Ebony
Bridgestone Potenza RE730 (size: 225/55ZR-16 on stock rims)
AEM Cold Air Intake and Bi-Pass Valve
Comptech Headers
Mugen Exhaust
Comptech Sport Springs
Comptech Swaybars
Wings West Spoiler
Burlwood Knob
02-01-2001, 08:57 PM
#2
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Byron, I did a plus two upgrade on my Miata from 14's to 16's, from 185 60's to 225 40's.. I also installed Koni shocks and Racing beat lowering street springs.. I took the car for a ride after the alignment, went over a bump, and BAM, the steering was totally off, I was holding the wheel way off center... I went back and they aligned it again the next day, and now it's fine.. I never inspected the tread wear on it closely to see how it's wearing, but my point is to say that sometimes a hard bump can knock off the alignment a little bit..Also, the guy didn't tighten something very well..I know it's not related to the TL, but it's related to the alignment issue.
Ed
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Acura-TL.com - Forum Moderator
'99 TL Satin Silver/Ebony, Non/Nav, Comptech lowered, Comptech Air Filter Element, Inspire Tails, AEM Brake Pads all around, Comptech Axle Back Exhaust, "Guy Smiley" doll on the dash as my Co-driver...
Pics of my TL
Pics of my Miata! Wadya think?
Ed
------------------
Acura-TL.com - Forum Moderator
'99 TL Satin Silver/Ebony, Non/Nav, Comptech lowered, Comptech Air Filter Element, Inspire Tails, AEM Brake Pads all around, Comptech Axle Back Exhaust, "Guy Smiley" doll on the dash as my Co-driver...
Pics of my TL
Pics of my Miata! Wadya think?
02-01-2001, 10:16 PM
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Ed- Thanks for the reply! This is what I am going to do. I ordered some new shocks from Snook. After I get them installed, I am going take it back to the tire/alignment shop and have the swap the tires up so that the inside tread become the outside tread and then have the car realigned. I may ask them how much they would charge me to just get the front toe checked periodically. What does that sound like?
------------------
This photo is "pre-mods"; "post-mods" photo coming......
1999 Acura 3.2TL
Black with Ebony
Bridgestone Potenza RE730 (size: 225/55ZR-16 on stock rims)
AEM Cold Air Intake and Bi-Pass Valve
Comptech Headers
Mugen Exhaust
Comptech Sport Springs
Comptech Swaybars
Wings West Spoiler
Burlwood Shift Knob
------------------
This photo is "pre-mods"; "post-mods" photo coming......
1999 Acura 3.2TL
Black with Ebony
Bridgestone Potenza RE730 (size: 225/55ZR-16 on stock rims)
AEM Cold Air Intake and Bi-Pass Valve
Comptech Headers
Mugen Exhaust
Comptech Sport Springs
Comptech Swaybars
Wings West Spoiler
Burlwood Shift Knob
02-01-2001, 10:37 PM
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When I put on my Springs I found out about 7k miles later that the inside of both of my stock tires were completely bald. No problem at all on the back tires. Put on Potenza 225/45/17's and had the car realigned. Have 5k miles on these new tires and no problems at all. I honestly think they messed up my first alignment and this cost me my tires. Coincidentally Acura did my second realignment for free. Hmmm. We'll see what happens in the future. What we could use is some camber adjusters.
------------------
2001 Black/Black CL Type S
Comptech springs, headers PIAA 19169 road lamps Solaris 9005 High Beams
Potenza RE730 225/45/ZR17 tires
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1192826&a=8788545
------------------
2001 Black/Black CL Type S
Comptech springs, headers PIAA 19169 road lamps Solaris 9005 High Beams
Potenza RE730 225/45/ZR17 tires
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1192826&a=8788545
02-02-2001, 12:35 AM
#5
OG
Titan, even if you get new shocks put in, it isn't going to help your problem. I inspect cars for my Insurance company, and I do alot of suspension inspections.
Basically, you have two problems here. The first one is the inner tire wear, and that's cause by the improper toe adjustment by the alingment shop. When you lower your TL with Comptech springs, the camber does not change that significantly, however, the toe will. I believe your alignment shop just messed up on your toe settings. Once in a while, you will hit a big big pot hole and it will throw your alignment off. But your read said both the left and front are off, that tells me that they did not adjuster them correctly.
You second problem is when you said it wears like a roller coaster and that you felt vibrations. This is a problem caused by an imbalance wheel/tire. When a wheel/tire is not balanced, it will not wear evenly through the surface of the tire.
I don't want to put your hopes down but I can tell you right now that just changing out the shocks is not going to help your problem. You might want to go to another tire shop/alignment shop.
I've had my car lowered since May 1999 and had put over 25000 miles on my tires on stock shocks, my tires are wearing evenly and my inner tread and the outer tread depth is the same.
Basically, you have two problems here. The first one is the inner tire wear, and that's cause by the improper toe adjustment by the alingment shop. When you lower your TL with Comptech springs, the camber does not change that significantly, however, the toe will. I believe your alignment shop just messed up on your toe settings. Once in a while, you will hit a big big pot hole and it will throw your alignment off. But your read said both the left and front are off, that tells me that they did not adjuster them correctly.
You second problem is when you said it wears like a roller coaster and that you felt vibrations. This is a problem caused by an imbalance wheel/tire. When a wheel/tire is not balanced, it will not wear evenly through the surface of the tire.
I don't want to put your hopes down but I can tell you right now that just changing out the shocks is not going to help your problem. You might want to go to another tire shop/alignment shop.
I've had my car lowered since May 1999 and had put over 25000 miles on my tires on stock shocks, my tires are wearing evenly and my inner tread and the outer tread depth is the same.
02-02-2001, 09:32 AM
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I appreciate everyone's input! I was sort of freaking out thinking I had a major problem that may not be able to be fixed. I feel much better now. I did go ahead and order some Tokico non-adjustable shocks from snook. My car will be two years old in May and has 63,000 miles on it. I figured the new shocks were close to being due. I am going to have the toe corrected as soon as I get the new shocks on! Hopefully this will correct my problems. Thanks again for your input!
TITAN
------------------
This photo is "pre-mods"; "post-mods" photo coming......
1999 Acura 3.2TL
Black with Ebony
Bridgestone Potenza RE730 (size: 225/55ZR-16 on stock rims)
AEM Cold Air Intake and Bi-Pass Valve
Comptech Headers
Mugen Exhaust
Comptech Sport Springs
Comptech Swaybars
Wings West Spoiler
Burlwood Shift Knob
TITAN
------------------
This photo is "pre-mods"; "post-mods" photo coming......
1999 Acura 3.2TL
Black with Ebony
Bridgestone Potenza RE730 (size: 225/55ZR-16 on stock rims)
AEM Cold Air Intake and Bi-Pass Valve
Comptech Headers
Mugen Exhaust
Comptech Sport Springs
Comptech Swaybars
Wings West Spoiler
Burlwood Shift Knob
02-02-2001, 05:11 PM
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Air pressure... just a thought on the matter. I heard over-inflating could cause cupping.
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99' LGM, H&R Sport Springs, 37% Platinum+, AEM SRI, Inspire tailend
Our reality is only a faint shadow of the truth
------------------
99' LGM, H&R Sport Springs, 37% Platinum+, AEM SRI, Inspire tailend
Our reality is only a faint shadow of the truth
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02-02-2001, 09:59 PM
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I run 34 in the front and 32 in the rear.....
------------------
This photo is "pre-mods"; "post-mods" photo coming......
1999 Acura 3.2TL
Black with Ebony
Bridgestone Potenza RE730 (size: 225/55ZR-16 on stock rims)
AEM Cold Air Intake and Bi-Pass Valve
Comptech Headers
Mugen Exhaust
Comptech Sport Springs
Comptech Swaybars
Wings West Spoiler
Burlwood Shift Knob
------------------
This photo is "pre-mods"; "post-mods" photo coming......
1999 Acura 3.2TL
Black with Ebony
Bridgestone Potenza RE730 (size: 225/55ZR-16 on stock rims)
AEM Cold Air Intake and Bi-Pass Valve
Comptech Headers
Mugen Exhaust
Comptech Sport Springs
Comptech Swaybars
Wings West Spoiler
Burlwood Shift Knob
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