'99 TL with 130,000 miles.

A week or so ago was driving my TL. It was icey, so I had the TCS on. Then my Check Engine light came on....and TCS light wouldn't go out. After the car sat the TCS light went out but the Check Engine light stayed on. Took it to my dealer.

He says it's a "P0401-EGR FLOW, P0420-CATALITIC CONVERTER FAILURE"

Suggests cleaning the EGR ports and replacing catalitic converters, EGR valve and 02 sensor may need to be replaced. Estimate $900-$1400.

Sound right? Options? How about that stuff you put in the gas tank to burn off the built up carbon in the engine and exhaust?

Jeff

 

OK Lets be sure whats going on here

If the TCS light is ON all the time- push the TCS button
The TCS light comes on if you DISABLE the system- meaning turns OFF the TCS



Next search EGR and there is info on remove and cleaning procedure
Seafoam is the intake cleaner everyone loves, see multiple post - simple job

Third- after these items done- take your baby to a good muffler shop, most will do a catalytic test- by drilling a small hole and doing a pressure test.
They can tell you if that part is good

The O2 sensors go out- again- search is your friend on this board

A code is not an actual diagnosis, its a process of understanding WHY the code is up and what the reall fix it.

Good Luck- there lots of help here

 

I believe there's a TSB or recall on the 99 TL for the EGR port. They ream it out and put in a sleeve to help prevent buildup. Ask your dealer about it - it might be covered under the federal emissions part of your warranty (doubtful - with your mileage).

The cat code could mean that the cat is going out, or it could be that the O2 sensors need to be replaced. I personally believe that both O2 sensors should be replaced at 100k miles. The O2 sensor manufacturer would tell you that they should be replaced at 50k intervals (which is ridiculous).

None of those codes explain why your TCS light doesn't go out. As long as it doesn't come on/stay on again, I wouldn't worry about it. You could, however, have pending codes stored in the computer. Did the dealership check for pending codes?

Agreed - the OBD II codes are NOT a diagnosis. They simply point you to a diagnostic procedure in the manual which allows you to find the actual root cause of the problem.

 

If your any bit handy http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/B00-004.PDF, do that and reset the CEL and see if it comes back on.

 

If you commonly drive only short distances, then you may be able to help the catalytic converter by getting it hot enough to burn off the deposits clogging it. Try a long freeway drive at higher speed up a mountain, or towing a trailer for a while.

 

OMG!!! A Tow bar on my beloved TL , I think not!!
Thats what the truck is for

Better to run a can of Guaranteed to Pass Smog Test stuff $8 in the gas, that runs really hot thru the cats

Did you look up the post on EGR cleaning in this forum?
And the other ideas of having a muffler shop check the cats.

Because cats come under Federal Emission laws, every single one of the replaced has to have a document stating why replaced, plugged-clogged, mileage replaced at etc
That means mufler shops test them properly and know if they are really needed

The other stuff is easy DIY if you have basic mechanical skills, or a friend with same!

 

Thanks for the replys folks.

How long should a catalytic converter on a TL last? Is 130,000 to soon for it to clog? Also I see a a new coverter from Acura will run almost $700 bucks:
http://acuraautomotiveparts.org/acur...s=&view=normal

But a "universal" converter is about $60 to $80 bucks! (see ads on this page)
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/catalytic-converter2.htm

Why such a huge price difference?

Thanks!
Jeff

 

Mine has 225k on it and still working

 

It all depends on too many factors to list here.
I had cars in the shop with 49k with bad cats (just inside warranty) and others had 150K

Fsttyms1 gets more life out of every part of his car than anyone I know!!!

Have the cat tested by a reputable muffler shop
I have used the universal cats on several cars and trucks and they run fine and pass smog

 

Doing mostly HWY driving is what does that

 

This may sound like an odd question; but are most catilytic converters made of high quality steel so they dont rust? ie would the $80 universal converter be high quality...and last as long as the Honda cat?

Thanks.....

 

I highly doubt the 80 dollar cats are nearly as good as the oem ones. I wouldnt worry about them rusting as much as i would worry about the internals of the cat lasting as long

 

at 80 bucks vs hundreds,you can go thru several universal cats for the price of one factory replacement
I am all for using the best part, and sometimes cheap is actually good
Its not the outside that fails, its the mystery metals inside that get clogged or breaks

Man if I could just get brakes made from unobtainium like we used in the space program...
I'd be Livin Large!

Again- what does the muffler shop say their test results show?

 

I have to find a local muffler shop to do the test...on my list of things to do this week. Can they also easily (cheaply) check my emmisson levels? If the part per million is high is that a clue the cat is not working to?

 

Well for starters did you ever take care of the EGR flow problem? I would address that first.

there is a big difference in cat prices due to OEM prices, plus their quality has to be more due to them having to go thru more rigorous testing. Random Technologies makes a good cat for our cars. All you need is a 6" extension for the rear 02 sensor. Our vendor Excelerate carries them

 

I have not seen smog shops and mufflers shops as one, but often are located near each other.

Smog place can do a "pretest" for 20 or 25 dollars- no foul if no pass, just for info only

And agree with fsttyms1 get the EGR solved then check the cat- both will make high exhaust numbers
You would have to post you actual numbers, but most acuras are really clean burning
My 01 TL has the ULEV engine and barely registers on the machine!

 

One of my truck drivers has a brother who has a garage with all the needed exhaust testing equipment (and computer that reads service codes). So I am getting a new EGR valve (about $170 if I go OEM Honda) then I get an appointment to have him put it in and test the exhaust system and cat.

Question: Should I stick with the Honda EGR valve or after market one that sells for about $80? 130,000 miles is hard to knock, and I want to sat with Honda parts as much as possible but some after market parts may be as good???

Also, got prices on the tiny "EGR Tube" in the Service Bulletin above....about $74 at my dealer (little less online). But the "tool" to install it is about $73!! Do you really need the "tool" to push that tube in?

I should probably do my spark plugs too while I am doing this. They look to be about $14 bucks a piece. I'll will have to search here for info on the coils....I'm curious how long they should last, and if it might be a good idea to keep one or two on hand incase one fails....

Jeff

 

Jeff

What kind of plugs are you buying for 14 bucks each!

I got NGK Iridiums for 7 each at Kragen to fit a 2001 TL

My truck has an aftermarket egr valve with no prob- smog guy is cool with it because I wrote the OE original part number on it
the TL is bit more sophisticated car- but still its just a valve that diverts exhaust gas

If its really easy to get to- it wont hurt if the cheaper one fails after its warranty (yes- even aftermarket parts have warranty) and you have to replace it again sometime.

If its a major hassle to get to and still have at least 3 layers of skin remaining on your hand
....well, you can HOPE the dealer item is good to start and never fails- remembering that new parts are not always working parts!

Coil packs? If you get a deal on a few it never hurts to have spare everything if you live in the way far away from help, or otherwise set out with tools and supplies on a normal road trip.

I carry a 2 fire extinguishers, glow stick/flares, first aid and CPR supplies
but not a single spare part!

And just the other day a 5 car accident with 9 foot high flames from car, break window with bottom of fire extinguisher, extricate driver, decide car fire to big to put out, move away and dial 911. Big surprise, stolen car crashed in intersection while running from prior accident back 2 blocks!

Always look twice before crossing the intersection !!!!

 

>>What kind of plugs are you buying for 14 bucks each!<<

acuraautomotiveparts.org says the '99 TL uses:

98079-5514N - SPARK PLUG (PZFR5F-11) (NGK) $17.04 (13.63 their price)
or
98079-5515N - SPARK PLUG (PKJ16CR-L11) (DENSO) $16.80 (13.44 their price)


....maybe these are official "Honda" parts?? Again, 130,000 miles is hard to beat. Yea, I could probably save $42 buying from a parts store, but is the savings worth the 'peace of mind'? Having had '70's and 80's GM trucks (that needed work on them WEEKLY) it true amazes (and delights me) to have an engine that can go over 130,000 miles with virtually no work. If this was my '84 Blazer I would have already spent hundreds or thousands on multiple sets of plugs and wires (and one or more distributors)....let alone u-joints, exhausts and carb work What a piece of junk that truck was.....I could fill this page with what went wrong with that truck, from paint on the roof peeling off the first week it left the dealer, to the body rusting off the frame. GM, never again!

Anyway, I like saving money, but I LOVE reliability And in the long run it may not cost more.


By the way, acuraautomotiveparts.org is a handy source for Acura part numbers. They even show the parts diagrams for your car.

Jeff

 

Jeff

Hope you did the water pump and timing belt already
They are due at 105 but many report getting 150 out of them
The plugs are also due then- though for peak performane many replace them sooner
Gas is expensive- plugs are cheap
The NGK and the Denso are both approved for our car
This is a case of dealer sells same part for double
Buy them local or even our vendor Excellerate will beat that price!

 

IN fact- buy the NGK Iridium plugs over the "factory" stockers
Way better performance and life -those are the 7 bucks apiece

 

Water Pump.......good idea. I was thinking about adding the timing belt to my list here, but yes, better do the pump too.

By the way, the EGR Valve can be found under the "Water Pump" section for the TL on acuraautomotiveparts.org.....after spending a half hour searching I had to email them thursday to ask were it was! Even the person who replied to my email wasn't sure why it was there.

Thanks for the spark plug info....

Jeff

 

1. I was also going to do the Fuel Filter to but it appears it's in the gas tank and to replace it you need to drop the tank out of the car?

2. Thermostat. I thought of changing the thermostat to, but the thermostat in this engine is NOT what you find in a '84 Chevy 350 (a piece of metal that pops open at a designed temp??). The one in the TL appears to use a sophisticated system that uses a sensor to measure temperature then to operate a solenoid if I am reading this parts diagram correctly. Maybe thats why the temperature gauge in a TL never varies once the car is up to temp. But should any of the thermostat components be replaced at 130,000?

3. And when I do the Water Pump should I do the hoses too?

4. Also, several months ago I was in to the dealer because my valves sounded nosiey. They told me they couldn't be adjusted. But Acura recommends they be adjusted at 75,000 & 105,00 miles if they are nosiey (and "Check valve clearance when the engine is cold."). Anyone know if the valves in the '99 TL 3.2 be adjusted? Why would the dealer tell me that?

5. The 120,000 mile service says "Replace air conditioning filter." too. Will have to see what they cost. Trying to do as much as is needed in one trip to the mechanic

Thanks,
Jeff

 

Hi Jeff

Is a good idea to replace cooling hoses when you do the pump.
I was checking mine today and thinking its a good idea to do on GP

I believe the 99s do not use/have the "a/c" filter that the later ones call the cabin air filter

Ask Fsstyms1 about the valves and thermostat- he is up on engine knowledge
No need to change the fuel filter, just some seafoam wil clean it off

 

Ok, I replaced the EGR Valve and did the EGR Tube service, and new plugs, belts and water pump. My check engine light went off for a few weeks and now its back on. My mechanic says its a emmissons code 1457. Can anyone tell me more about this code? What might next thing to replace be? Air flow sensor? O2 sensor? Catalytic converters?

Thanks,
Jeff

 

Re tighten your fuel cap and reset your ECU (by pulling the clock backup fuse)


There many things to go along with a P1457 EVAP code at which time an evap test should be run to pin point problem. Leaving the gas cap loose will cause the MIL indicator to appear, topping of the gas too much, & filling while running can cause the light. The light will reset itself after a short time, up to 2 weeks, if one of those listed were the cause.

 

Thanks. I always "double-click" the cap when I put it on, and I usually just put $20 in at a time. The light did go out a few days ago but came back on. But the 1457 code is related to the fuel system or gas cap? Could the seal on the gas cap be bad after 8 years? Maybe a new gas cap would help?

Thanks,
Jeff

 

so you never replaced the O2 sensor and cat as the first mechanic said you needed?

 

yes the gas cap seal is VITAL to the engine management system- one that wont hold pressure on test, is a FAIL item on many states smog test
Check the rubber seal visually- any cracks or dents- replace- they are cheap

NOTE TO ALL:

3 CLICKS on the gas cap --minimum!! Says so right on the cap and the owners manual

 

i always click it like 4-5 times

 

>>so you never replaced the O2 sensor and cat as the first mechanic said you needed?<<

The first mechanic (at the dealer) said they MAY be the cause. I elected to start with a new EGR Valve and do the needed EGR Port Service Acura said needed to be done and see if that fixed it (I did all that PLUS all new belts, water pump & hoses and spark plugs for what he was estimating just doing what he suggested trying first). The engine light did stay off for weeks. The plan was do what I had done at a very good mechanic I know (who did the items above) then move on to the O2 sensor and catalytic converters (if needed).


>>3 CLICKS on the gas cap --minimum!! Says so right on the cap and the owners manual<<

Yes, I said "double click" but I do always do at least 3 clicks. The dealer made me paranoid about that when I picked up the car


The seal on my cap looks ok but I am now thinking this may be fuel related. With that engine code pointing to that and the fact in the past few weeks I have had the car stall three times while driving, usually right after I take my foot off the gas and roll to a stop at a light. This car NEVER stalls. In the almost 8 years I had the car this never happened. Also, when start the car it would always take one key turn, and once the engine started it would stay running. Now, I will start the car and a few time it will shut down within the first 1 or 2 seconds. Again, for this engine it is very unusual behavior.


>>The light will reset itself after a short time, up to 2 weeks<<

Yes, this happened last week. The light went off but within a few days came back on.


So, I may buy a new gas cap just to try and see what happens.....if that fixes this great. If not I will consider the O2 sensor, catalytic converters and mass air flow sensor.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

Could my TL need a new fuel pump? The other day I had another "incident" where the lights on the dash board all flash on, but this time the car did not stall, it was like it got a shot of extra fuel at I slowed to stop at a Stop sign (the other times the dash board lights flashed and the car stalled). AND as I think back now the first time the dash board lights flashed on (a few months ago) I was doing 35-40 and it happened, I lost power (I thought it might be my 2nd gear clutch pack going) the car started to slow, but just as I was about to pull off the road the car started going again. I assumed my ('99) tranny was on its last leg at 131,000 miles and i was already planning on getting in the shop to be checked out (I have to go lightly when the car shifts into 2nd or get a thud).

But now adding up a lot of things here the engine light, code and the stalling incidents are making me think the main issue here is fuel to the engine (not emmissions now that I have the new EGR and EGR Tube).

How can I test to see if my fuel pump is going bad or I have a problem with fuel delivery?

Thanks,
Jeff

 

UPDATE: I pull into the drive thru to get my ice coffee and I notice the engine is not idling smooth, it's pulsating back and forth between 1000 RPM and 1500 RPM. What would cause that? It was like the engine was starving for fuel?

I turned the car off then restarted, and drove off. It ran fine driving it. And later when I got home it idled smoothly at 500 RPM.

Something appears to be going on with the fuel system.....just wish I could figure out what so I could fix it!

Jeff

 

Sounds like a IAC problem with those symptoms

 

IAC? What is IAC?

Thanks....

 

Idle Air Control

I was just thinking that as I got to the bottem of the last post and saw Kris thinks so too- then thats likely the prob.

Its an attached part of the Throttle Body- I believe its- remove TB, turn over and remove 2 screws- remove small something and clean with carb cleaner- reinstall
Probably pics in a thread on Thermoblock Install since that parts comes off then.

Is that the correct way Kris?

 

I searched around the forum, couldn't find any pics. Maybe it's time I bought the Factory Service Manual for my '99 TL. That should have pics and how-to info? The CD version, if available, should be cheaper?

I just bought the factory service manual for my '03 Kawasaki KVF650 quad this week. That was about $85 bucks with tax. Hope the TL manual is cheaper...

 

Asked acuraautomotiveparts.org if they sell the factory manuals. They don't but suggested
http://www.helminc.com/

Looks like they have the factory manual for my '99 TL for $64...the one for the '99-'00 for $66...'99-'01 for $68 and '99-'03 for $95. hummm....which to buy? Wonder if the later versions have updated info on my '99?

 

If you have 99, just get the one for 99, it includes the updated pages separately.

FYI: I had the P420 code (catayst under threshold, or something like that) a couple years ago. I kept resetting, but it kept coming back after may be 2 weeks, sometimes several days. People suggested new Cat, O2 sensor, etc., but I didn't do any of that since the car was running fine. The CEL finally went away after I put in a fuel injection cleaner (Gumout) 2 times in 2 tanks. It hasn't come back for 2 years. I have 99 also. So before you spent $ on Cat and O2 sensors, give that a try.

 

>>I put in a fuel injection cleaner (Gumout) 2 times in 2 tanks.<<

Very good suggestion. I tried it, but engine light is still on.

By chance I was going to get some lunch about an hour ago at I local place place here and saw my old friend Tommy (knew him since grade school), his (bus) garage is behind the restaurant I go to. Anyway, I said "Tommy, do you just fix buses here or cars to?". He said "Everything"

I explained the engine light and what I tried and what I thought it might be. He said "Hold on" and goes and gets his handheld engine code computer.....we plug it in, he gets a code and some info then he presses some buttons and has direct access to the O2 sensor voltage outputs.

He says "this one O2 sensor looks flat. It moves on idle but when I rev the engine like this it should be bouncing all over the place". So that may be the problem. He reset the engine light and told me if it comes back on we'll put a new O2 sensor in.

Funny, I saw him yesterday to in the restaurant and we talked about the motorcyle races at Lagua Seca a few weeks ago (he went). I only see him there by chance about once every 8 months. Didn't even occur to me to ask him about the car. If there is anyone I'd trust working on the car it's Tommy.....hopfully this will be resolved shortly

Jeff