AcuraTLFan

a late model legend 93 vs 01 TL. Who would win? I think the legends had 220 HP and TL has 225. But the legend seems to rev faster.

Reason asking for is i have a TL-S and was driving...a legend was next to me..we were doing about 50 mph at 9pm. i was just driving, and he just gunned it, because i can hear his CAI....so i'm like, why not....so i gunned it and we were up to 80 mph, but it didn't seem that i was gaining on him, we were just dead even...then we had to slow down for traffic. Should this be right or do i have a bad actuator?

Avarice

How do you know which year Legend it was? Was it a coupe or a sedan? All 93+ coupes have a Type 2 engine that produces 230 hp. Also it is possible his Legend was a 6-speed.

If it was a sedan then it could have been a GS as they are the only sedan models w/the Type 2 engines. I think you are pretty much on-par w/the Legend unless you have i/h/e etc.

tuRb0mikEy

6-Speed Type II will win a high-speed highway race

asloudasitgets

wtf? so a legend will beat a 260 hp type s?

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

It's all in the gearing.... HP isn't always everything.

Ray_Khan

and the power to the wheels....it's not really 260 vs 230....it's closer than that

BlueXTC

wait... why are u asking for a comparison between acura Legend and a TL - P with 225 hp...when u have a TL -S?


I think TL-S can smoke a legend even without i/h/e...
i would think legend is a heavier car than TLs

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

very, very true... good point... especially if the Legend is the 6speed manual... it has a LOT less power loss in the tranny which equals more power to the ground....

Good call

aiznpride

a tl-s will beat a 95 legend coupe auto for sure. i have both cars the stock tl-s smokes my heavily modded legend.

also, in cali, you can't tell cause people do so much to the cars. there's a guy over there that has a legend running high 12's or low 13's. that's unheard of for the legends that run on average 15's.
-j

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

This isn't necessarily true.... especially considering Ray_Khan's point. If the Legend has 230hp at the crank.. and is a stick.. it's probably only losing about 10% - 12% power from the tranny, which means it would be putting down around 205-210 at the wheels.

The best dyno on a stock TL-S I've seen is Astro's 204hp at the wheels... every other one has been 195-200. Combine that with the better gearing of the manual and you can see why you could lose. At the very least it would be a close run.

BTW, this is stock for stock... if you mod one or the other it's a different story. The AUTO Legend would also be a different story....

AcuraTLFan

The reason is that the TL-P has a closer power rating to the legend....and if the TL-P can beat it then the TL-S should surely beat it. And if the TL-P would lose by a bit, then the TL-S should beat the legend.

Should've bought a used legend huh?

asloudasitgets

im sorry, but my uncle has a 1994 acura legend. and i raced him once in my prelude, but im sorry to sound like im making this up but i smoked him. he kept up with me until we hit 45mph after that i owned him. he was infront of me but 10 inches at 10-30 mph. but that car isnt that fast. its smooth as hell and shifts nicely but its not a fast car that some of you are making it out as.

ColdFusionTL

Ya right...b4 i had this 03 TL-S, i had a 95 Legend LS Coupe 6 speed. I easily smoked completely modified preludes like nothing. And i easily beat a TL-P. I never raced a TL-S with my legend though. Even though the legend is heavy, the engine really kicks...You shouldn't under estimate a legend cuz they are fast cars.

legendary

its really a driver's race, and depends on what mods you have as well.

if you raced a Legend sitting on 19" 3 piece wheels, you have an advantage....much more unsprung mass that needs to get going there. Now, I won't brag on what I have beaten and what not, for I know it may seem biased. Let's just have an official bout and see who wins...stock for stock the type s and the type ii are very close....driver race

Ray_Khan

we are talking stock TLS vs a Stock, 6 speed legend. It can go either way. If you throw 30 lb 19's on one car, you deal with not only the unsprung weight you add but also the fact that bigger wheels have more rotational inertia which hurts accelleration. I will hopefully see a good example of this next saturday when I run my 15's in stead of my 17's at the strip. They weight about the same with tires, but the 15's shoudl be easier to get spinning, so I shoudl see better results. I am expecting the times to be better because of experience/and much cooler temps, but the wheels shoudl factor in as well....I hope.

LeoLegend

It really depends on what kind of Legend, I have a 91 coupe 5pd, and I roast preludes all day. Keeping up with a TL-S on the highway is not hard either. So you punks flickn your middle fingers off better watch out next time you see me.

Davidas

Being an ex-owner of a 92 Legend, I can say there is no way on earth it could compare to our TL-S in term of acceleration.

I raced with a Coupe Legend (don't know what year), but I totally killed it at a rolling 80km/h. No questions asked, the guy looked at me and gunned it.

Uncomparable, sotck vs stock. End of statement.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Hey slick... where did someone write that they were disrespecting Legend owners?? I hope you meet up with a TL-S "punk" with headers on your next highway run.....

legendary

Exactly..you said 92 legend, which equals the lower powered version, the Type I.
Now if you drive the Type II stock, you will see there is a big difference.

-91-95 L and LS sedans ALL have the 200hp Type I

-ALL 93-95 coupes (and my 91 Hybrid) have the 230hp Type II, optional 6 speed manual

-94-95 GS sedans have the Type II motor, and an optional 6 speed manual.

Now guys, lets be honest...how many cars back in the day did you know of that put down those kinds of numbers? Very few...you may say the LS400 or SC400, but in comparison those cars today look dated, whereas the Legend still has timeless styling.
AND, if you take a drive in a Type II Legend, you will see that the Type II is right on par with any S series acura....stock for stock (CL/TL).

Anyone want to run, let me know

I got some ladies from Modified Magazine to drop the flag.

RAdams

I've got nothing but love, admiration and respect for the Legend -- it's the car that really started it all for Acura. My calculus professor in my freshman year of college had a green GS sedan with a 6-speed... I LOVED that car.

You guys are absolutely right -- horsepower is not everything. However, there's no denying the TL-S' higher and flatter torque curve. Being able to wind out to 7000 RPM helps, too. I've driven an auto Type I (LS sedan), an auto Type II (GS sedan) and a 6-speed manual Type II (LS coupe)... I'd put my money on a TL-S against any of them in a race.

If they were still making Legends (not RL's) -- I'd be driving one.

ChucksCL-S

My son has a 91 Legend auto with 200hp, I have a 2000 TL-P with I/E only (OBX on order). His car is stock. We have drag raced many times and I completely bury him. It isn't even close. I pull away alittle and then when VTEC kicks in I run away. Both cars are fully maintained and like showroom condition. But against the 220 or 230HP dudes I imagine it would be close. I've never raced one.

RAdams

Cool dad

ChrisK

Well, from all the research I've done on the 230 HP Legend Coupe with the 6-Speed manual trans, it seems to put down low 190s (About 192) to the wheels on the dyno. So, the TL-S seems on average to put down just a bit more HP if we say the TL-S puts down 195. Some have been getting a little over 200HP as well. As far as I can tell though, the 4th gear on the CL/TL is kind of tall right? I'm not an owner of a TL, but I hear owners talking about it and the last time I drove a TL-S the RPMs dropped farily low in 4th, and 5th was pretty useless for any kind of racing acceleraion.

The numbers I came up with over the internet looking at Motortends review on a 1993 Acura Legend LS 6-Speed Coupe was a best 0-60 of 6.3 seconds with the traction control system turned off. I personally know 6-Speed Legend owners who run 0-60s in the 6.7 range all day in stock form. No stock 6-Speed Legend owner I know has actually duplicated the 6.3 0-60 in stock form though. In the 1/4 miles, the best reported time I've seen was a 14.9 seconds with a 92-93MPH trap speed. The top speed for the Legend with 230 HP is 150 MPH, at least that is what MotorTrend said.

The same Legend 6-Speed owners I know run low 15s stock with no problems. Usually between 15.2 and 15.4 all stock. Now, I under stand the TL-S can also run the 0-60 in 6.2 as tested, and 14.7 or so as tested by the magazines. This seems to support the rated HP to the wheels for both the TLS and Legend 6-Speed.

Given that the gear ratios on the TLS is similar to the 6-Speed Legend for the gears 1-3, it is obvous the TLS should win on paper up to the 1/4 mile or low 100MPH speeds. However, given the gear rations of the 4th gear which looks similar to the 6-Speed legends 4th gear, and the 5th gear of the TLS actually appearing to be taller than the legends 6th gear, it is obvious that that above 120MPH up to the rated 150MPH top speed of that the Legend probabaly on paper would start to catch up if he was behind as pass.

It all depends on what fast means to each person. I guess most people in the US only use the 1/4 mile for a measurment of fast, but the Legend has a reported top speed higher than the TL and CL, so does that make the Legend faster?

Anyway, I'm in agreement with those who say the HP rating at the crank doesn tell the whole story. While the Legend doesn't have VTEC, it does at least have a 3 stage induction system similar to the TL-S/CL-S. This 3 stage induction system really deoes help the top end of the Legend motor. I say TL-S should beat the 6-Speed Legend, but it is by no means a blow out and would be a drivers race and also would depend on high high speed you are racing to. I mean come on, 15.2 stock isn't fast, but it isn't bad either, and I have seen a lot of stock CLS and TLS running the similar low 15 seconds at the track as well.

Now the 6-Speed CL-S and if they come out with a TL-S 6-Speed should have a much reater advantage though. Give repect where repect is due.

Acurate420

hey junior buddy, it was your other buddy vsop who was "disrepspecting" legend owners...if you dont think that was being disrepectful i dont know what is. us legend owners didnt come on here trying to casue trouble or talk ****, we were only tryin to help give some of you all more insight about legends, as its obvious alot of you all dont know much about them.
im sure most of us have respect for the tl-s, its a good car, and yes it is fairly fast. im pretty certain that the tls will whne a short distance race, but on the highway i dont think the tls will do much.
i raced at tls in my typeI 5 speed coupe on the highway and we were neck and neck till about 115mph, that when i just started to walk away from him.
asloudasitgets, your uncles legend must have been really messed up or your prelude is heavily modded, cause thers no way he hsouldve lost to the prelude. maybe you meant to say you were ahead till you both hit about 35 then he smoked you?
anyways if acura ever comes out with a 6 speed TL-s i'll have to get one then.

LeoLegend

I have no disrespect for the Tl-s, it's a beautiful car no doubt. I just don't like people disrespecting something that they don't know about. And realize, my 12 year old car can keep up with most cars of today, so until you actually have any experience with this Vsop, I suggest to shut it.

JetJock

I have a friend in Dallas and he has an Legend Type 2 sedan auto. He talks mad shiet that he can take my bro Accord v6. That might be a good race, but as far as him talking this shiet that he can take my Tl-S. I don't think so. He says that he will smoke my ass in a race and I'm like, "BRING IT!!" Muthacacer doesn't know what he is dealing with, but all my friends know who will win...all of them except for his family members who all back him. But I'm still waiting to see him come down here and get OWNED by me in a race. I'm outta here. F*CK the LEGEND for all I care...To any LEGEND drivers here..this one is for you
quote:vsoptls

Just goes to show you about the value of a 3rd grade education in Dallas. He's not dealing with a full deck!!!

pianoman41

Well this started off as an interesting debate and ended up with trading insults. If it continues, this will have to be closed.

Mr Hyde

I agree with RAdams. The Legend is what made Acura, some may argue (and I am one of them? that once they killed off the legend, alot of what made Acura Acura died along with it. A nice blend of Luxury and Sport, it was the class leader at the time. If they made it today, I might be driving one instead of the TL-S.
Anyone checked out their resale value??? Its unbelieveable how much value they still hold.

After the Legend, the Teg and NSX continued the Sporty image, but the Teg didnt have the Luxury/sophistication that went along with the Acura nameplate. The rest of the lineup was all just too generic, the old TL, RL; there was no comparison with the Legend I felt until the 99TL came out.

Many say Acura doesnt command the respect it used to. I say bring back cars with the spirit of the Legend and it will. I believe that Acura is finally listening, and is headed back in that direction finally. Type-S models, the TSX, who knows maybe a future rendition of the RL will be an obvious evolution of the styling, luxury, and performance of the Legend, If not there will be no other Sedan left for me to upgrade to within the Acura line-up.

As far as a comparo goes, the Type II engine is a great performer now, forget about almost 10 years ago when it debuted. Id say stock vs stock, they are pretty evenly matched. Type II Legend 6spd vs TL-S. No ones walking away from anyone there. I think the TL-S will take a Type-I 5spd. Any legends in the NYC area want to meet up, let us know here in this forum too, I love them to death, wanted a Type-II 95-96 coupe soo bad.

***If this thread doesnt stay civilized, it will get locked or deleted. I only saw it was going downhill today, and pruned and re-opened it. (Sorry Pianoman hope you dont feel like I stepped on your toes). I just felt that it was a good thread that had alot to contribute with only a few uncivilized posters/posts which I have now dealt with. If it continues, further action will be taken.***

vsop TL-S

Yeah, well I didn't mean any harm to start with..and I did say I was SORRY!!! You guys here are too full of it sometimes...Well whatever...I'm done with this....I said I was sorry and spoke my peace...I didn't mean to offend anybody by anything I said, but if people take offense then once again, I am Sorry. LeoLegend, chill man, I didn't mean to get on your bad side. My bad, dude. I'm sorry, guy. Just forget about it...I was just being ignorant and childish. I AM SORRY!!!!! There we go, I hope that is civilized enough.

vsop TL-S

Mr. Hyde, why is it that I'm the only one getting chewed out? I felt offended...like discriminated against...well, I guess you just tried to keep things civilized and my remarks earlier could have been taken as very offensive and well, I did leave a disclaimer..but I guess people still take it the wrong way...I know now, what is "acceptable" behavior here...and you guys sometimes get a little to uptight. All good, I'm at fault at well. Well, I apologize again and will try keep my future posts "civilized." I hope that will settle all the disputes...Just on the record...The Legend is a good car, I love those cars too, but don't think I wouldn't take my TL Type-S over that car..hahaha of course I have to be bias on that at least:toothless

Mr Hyde

You are being singled out because you were the first one to mouth off, curse out and instigate things, useless disclaimer or not. I do 'Discriminate" against that kind of behavior. (Thats funny though because that would be like saying that a cop is discriminating against a guy he just busted being chased out of a store with a TV in his hands). If I call you an ******* or say **** off but then put a disclaimer at the end saying its my opinion, tat does not make it alright. Us "uptight" guys dont like that kind of stuff here.

asloudasitgets

keep this in mind there is a reason why they call it s type s. even though it wouldnt compare to a type r. whatever. all i know is that i will burn any legend. stock for stock and modified vs modified.

LeoLegend

Hey man, no harm done, I also apologize. It is kinda silly to get worked up about. I apologize if I offended you in any way, peace man.

accordv6

there is just so much love here I never knew Legends were fast..........gonna have to watch out for them!!

ChrisK

Have you done the research on the printed performance numbers? I'm just wondering because like I mentioned above, at least for the 6-Speed Coupe, the tested performance numbers shows the CLS/TLS and that 6-Speed Coupe to have nearly identical numbers on paper. With that said, I did say the new Type S cars probabaly would still win because it is easier to drive down low and harder for the 6-Speed to get that perfect launch, but a blanket statement like the Type S burning any Legends is simply not true for all the model Legends.

Here is some of the numbers that I compiled during my research. These numbers are NOT from a single test, but from multiple tests from different sources. These are the best numbers that each have obtained that I could find.

1993-95 Acura Legend TYPE II 6-Speed Coupe.
0-60 = 6.3 with Traction Control System off.
60-0 = 129 Feet.
1/4 Mile = 14.9
Skid Pad = .82 G.
Slalom = 65.4 MPH.
Top Speed (Here there are two number. One for the Sedan and one for the Coupe. There are different final gear ratios for each car, thus the difference) = 146 MPH for the Coupe, and 150 MPH for the Sedan.

Now given that, I know everyone here already knows the performance nubmer for the Type S TL/CL, so again, I have to say it will be a close match and a drivers race. TL/CL Type S still has the edge, but no car will be burning, or smoking, or walking away from the other. At least according to the numbers.

vsop TL-S

I will like to say this on the record, though...I still wished they make a Legend..I sure loved the ways those things look dropped and on rims...Hella clean and yes, I drove a Type-II auto and damn...that shiet was NICE...Still doesn't compare to my Type-S..hahahaha..j/k..actually it feels more like a "jet plane" the way that steering wheel comes down when you put the keys in the ignition...I'll never forget that feeling...Yeah, so yeah I LIKE the LEGENDS and I LOVE the TL's. So that is where I'm bias, but the Legend got me into Acuras like the Accord got me into Hondas. So all you Legend driving guys...lucky bastards...hahaha j/k I actually envy you a little bit because at least you have a Legend...I wouldn't have mind getting a Legend Type-II 6spd over my own TL Type-S because that thing drove so damn smooth. oh well, my luck my parents don't want me getting a used car...One day I sure wouldn't mind owning a Legend..but has to be Type-II 6spd. Tell me those things aren't hard to find now these days...No one wants to sell theirs'.... :wow:

vsop TL-S

Oh shiznit, I forgot another question? Would the springs off a 91-95 legend fits on a TL-S and vice versa? My friend wanted my stock springs but he has a '91 Legend and I didn't know if it would fit? Feedback please...thanks again..

Acurate420

vsop, im not 100% sure but im pretty certain the springs from the legend and TL arent interchangable...but i could be wrong.

ChrisK

No, the springs will not fit. Well, maybe if they are adjustables like Ground Control or so since they often use the same springs design only vary the spring rate, but the regular conventional springs will not fit.

JetJock

Hey Guys....Why don't we go out and have a brew and just chill....I had a Legend and it was a kewl car. I have a TLS now and it's a nice car too,just different that's all. Let's chill out and just be friends.....it's really more fun that way.