Thanks to doomed_acura, and everyone who had good input.

Will keep you all updated.

 

Great, now what is this all about?

 

I forgot to mention, this is b/c of my three transmission failures.

 

The letter from my attorney to Acura was to be sent off late last week. We didn't pursue through the lemon law, but took another avenue (not sure if I can talk about it right now, but I'll find out).

I will be curious if we get simillar results, or if the source of the complaint even matters.

Let's keep each other updated!

 

Chris .. will do .. you can email me .. i'll PM you w/ my email.

 

My case is officially open w/ the BBB.... just got a call from Brother Acura HQ today:

basically told me they feel real sorry for me and my three bad tranny's.. .etc.. (i just rolled my eyes thru most of it). The convo lasted only two or three minutes. In the end, she told me that I have no case in terms of having Honda/Acura re-purchase my car back. I told her my attorneys think otherwise, and we'll see her in court.

 

Any updates???

 

If you win, we all would get a new free Acura TL.

 

Exactly why he's unlikely to succeed. If he sets a precedence, then Acura will have to buy back every single car that has had 3 or more transmission repairs/replacements.

 

ooo the smiles you would see if that were the case hahahah good luck

 

Chris_mTX is likely pursuing a claim under a federal law (the Magnuson Moss Act). PeterUbers ... good going on the filing. After I filed with the BBB, I was also told that I had no chance (Acura's initial offer remained constant at extending the warranty to 7 yrs/70,000 miles) ... of course, Acura/Honda (be it the manufacturer or the dealer) would say that you have little chance of succeeding. Hang in there until the actual arbitration hearing. As the hearing gets closer, Honda/Acura will likely up their offer to resolve the matter. Most lawsuits do not settle until right before trial.

 

doomed .. did you "win" your case, or did it settle out of court? PM me if necessary, thanx

 

Nevermind, read your post from your thread, congrats. Looking for a similar resolution.

I'll keep everyone posted.

 

if acura settles and he gets a new acura, he and his lawyer are required to keep confidential the "settlement" check with your lawyer before you go announcing this.

 

Huh?

Unless it states that in the settlement agreement, there is no confidential "requirement" in settlement agreements...

 

It's a shame how things turn out. I too have a case on file with BBB. My TL-S only has 3,400 miles!!! The company called the other day when I was away, will call back Monday. Will I get the same treatment as doomed or peterubers, I don't know. One thing I do know, the way the car is going it will stall out one day in the middle of traffic and then what????? Anyone else on this forum please share if you too have filed. Thanks!

 

They almost always do. Acura doesn't want everyone to know about the outcome, because then everybody will jump at them.

 

I'll keep everyone up to date until I do (big if) get to that point where I can't say anymore. I've gotten so much good information about such a broad array of topics related to my car b/w this site and the acura-cl.com forum, it's the LEAST i can do. Thanks to doomed_acura for inspiring me to start this process.

 

1/22/04 -- got SECOND phone call from Acura .. the gist:

Acura: What do you want (i.e. as in a resolution to this case)
Me: Either my $35 grand back, or a new '04 TL
Acura: We'll call you in a week with out decision.

 

Peter, to be honest, you need to lower your expectations. You have used the car and so there is depreciation to think about--even the lemon law takes that into account. Most likely they will return with a substantially lower (but still fair) offer.

They have made and we have accepted an offer. The strange part is that we haven't heard anything in at least a week as to how the deal will be done. I have been out of the country, but they haven't attempted contact through my attorney to get the final paperwork in order. Anyways, as soon as things are signed on the dotted line, and assuming I can still discuss, I will.

Chris

 

Chris,

I have no expectation of either of my two "resolutions." But you can't go in, and I think you'd agree, with a low amount for the settlement, b/c you'll get less than that everytime. If I said I wanted MSRP for my used car (~22,000) they may come back w/ much less than that. Hence, I'm just stating what I personally think they should do for me as their customer who's dealth w/ all these issues.

I don't recall if you can or cannot talk about your "deal" w/ Acura, but I imagine that you've received a little over kellybluebook MSRP value for your car (kelly's used car value, that is). I'll make the decision on whether it's worth it to me to sell this car on my own, or accept any sort of settlement from Acura. I had every intention of keeping this car for six or seven years, but subsequent to all these transmission issues, I cannot do that anymore... I feel that this is the fault of Acura for providing me a defective car -- clearly, Chris, you and I are in agreement on that particular point, but i'm just stating it for the record.

Thanks

Pete

 

What sort of offer do you think would be worth it for me to accept Acura's offer and take their cash settlement? Note, I am NOT asking you about your offer, rather, i'm asking you what you think a typical Acura customer who's dealt w/ my tranny issues should accept from Acura.. what's worth accepting?

 

PeterUbders,
Read carefully the BBB Autoline rules and it will give you an idea of what to take into account for value of a settlement. Some items that are not commonly thought of include: property tax payments, loan interest (if financed any of the purchase price), maintenance costs, and amount of time when car was unusable (say, when the trannies were being replaced).

 

I would also consult your states Lemon Law. In many states, manufacturers worked with the Legislature to craft an acceptable valuation policy. To that extent they seem to believe it is a valid way to determine a fair price. I would SERIOUSLY doubt that any financing, insurance, or maintenance costs are (or should be) included in that. It should be the cost of the car less reasonable depreciation less costs incurred due to defect. Leases are tougher to determine as there could be financing costs that should be included.

Chris

 

Actually, the BBB Autoline rules that Acura agreed to vary by State (based in part on State lemon laws) and in some States , the damages do include "Collateral Charges" such as "tags, license, registration fees ... and earned finance charges incurred by the consumer" (this was Georgia). Insurance would certainly not be included in that list. Also, there is a basic depreciation calculation of the vehicle based on mileage. The arbitrators have wide discretion in what they can consider in determining the outcome of the proceedings.

 

Interesting ...

So .. how is it advantageous to go thru the BBB in order to obtain some fair ruling if there are already these "rules" for determining ultimate settlement? It seems to me that after deducting for what the car has depreciated... I am no better off that selling the car on the street..

 

on the contrary, the valuations determined by the lemon laws are quite generous to consumers. check it out, do the math, you will see. :-)

 

Also, who knows what you will get for your car with it being on its third tranny ... it won't be any of those numbers on KBB or Edmunds. The FMV of my car was what scared me the most. Also, because a defect in a transmission is a serious safety defect, most most people, including arbitrators, don't like it when a company puts a dangerous product on the road. Acura will try to rely on the NHTSA report released about year ago saying that it was not serious safety defect, but that determination was made in part on the assurance by Acura that they had the problem identified and solution ready, but obviously the fact that the problem continues today is evidence that they have not able to fix the issue.

Push the lack of confidence in the car and the safety issue as your primary points of concern in front of the arbitrator.

 

Final Update:

Honda called early this week, stated that they'd take my car + $10,500 of my money and put me in a new '04TL. BBB called as well, and based on their rules of negotiation, this was a 'legitimate' offer, and the BBB can do no better.

Absolute crap.

My car MIGHT get $22,000 on the street, and if I was gunna put in another $10-11k, why would I want another piece of crap Acura? I'd rather put that money into a G35, BMW, etc...

I didn't sign any of the paperwork indicating that I accepted that resolution, unfortunately my car does not qualify for Illinois lemon law unless i have one more tranny incident (which will most likely happen, but I can't guarantee it'll happen in the next 13,000 miles .. i have 37k miles on the odo).

Honda stated on the phone to me" It's not our company's policy to buy back defective cars from unsatisfied customers."

I said, "but it IS your policy apparently to let many thousands of people drive in cars that have tranny's that could go out at any time, and it's not your policy to recall any of these cars, just fix them as they fail on a case by case basis."

Acura had no comment for that.

 

What a terrible offer. You can get more than $20k from a private sale. Just knowing that the dealer can take your car and then sell it for $20k+ to someone else is motivation enough not to give it to them. So is this a dead end, or can you pursue any other courses of action? Let us know how things turn out man.

 

No other courses to pursue b/c I don't qualify for Illinois lemon law... this has been, among a few others, THE biggest mistake i've made in my life to purchase this car.. and the sad part is.. i had no idea that I was making such a horrendous mistake.

 

Not attacking here but I'm not understanding why you are upset with their offer.

You stated that you could yourself get $22K for you car. So take the $22K that your car is worth and add another $10K and you have $32K for a new TL. Sounds to me like you got what you asked for. ....well I understand you wanted the 04 for free but you have to realize that what you have has depreciated and they are giving you what you yourself know its worth. The new 04 TL has no tranny problem. So I wouldn't go around calling Acura's peices of crap. Many car manufactures at one time or other have experience this type of issues. I sympathize with you in the trouble you have had. I myself have had 2 trannys replaced. But I love my TL. And I continue to like Acura. My next car will be an Acura and my wife also feels the same way. I will sell my 02 TL before the 100K miles.

 

Actually, Acura would stand to make out on the deal. It's the old "store credit" trick. Acura cuts you a "break" on a $34k car and sells it to you for $32k. It only costs them maybe $26k to produce the thing, so they still made $6 grand on the deal -AND- sold another car. They'll also turn around and sell the old car with a minimal loss.

In the end Acura wins. You're right - it's not much of a deal.

 

Your a nice guy, to be paying 30k for a "luxury" car and going through 2 trannies and gonna buy more Acuras. Businesses love people like you. You probably don't vote either.That is a garbage offer. Honda feels they are doing you a favor here. I think there is a "principle" here that no one spending 30k+ on a car should go through tranny issues, let along 2, 3, 4, 5 times. Shoot, I'd just buy a BMW or Benz if I wanted issues.

 

It's the car not the company. If he's happy with the company, why shouldn't he go back to them? Personally, this is exactly why my uncle or I will never buy a Lexus anytime soon. They acted like we couldn't afford the car. He were interested in an IS300 or the GS400 in 2001 but they were skeptical from the beginning. When we tried to negotiate a deal, they flat out said "perhaps you guys should look at our [POS] entry-level ES300."

Also, I agree it's a garbage offer. But I know this much: if this was a Lexus, I doubt they would handle this case any differently.

 

Well, this is disappointing......Im in the middle of the 3rd tranny in my Accord going dead. This replacement lasted abotu 6K miles, and now its showing signs that I dont even think the dealer can pass off as "normal".

Once its determined it is the tranny, I was going to tell Honda they have two choices:

1. Replace the tranny, and watch me trade the car in on anything BUT another Honda (or Acura), and never see me buy another Honda (or Acura_ as long as I live

OR

2. Give me kbb.com's private sale price for my car towards the equivalent Accord, built in 2004, with a manual tranny because obviously their automatics still suck (funny thing is, my wife's old 1986 Acura has tranny issues too.........nice to see nothing changed in 18 years).

If, in fact, they ended up giving you 22K for your car, then I wouldnt call it an unfair offer. An '04 TL windows for a little under 35K according to edmunds.com. 35K - 10.5K = 24.5K.

This means they gave you 24.5K for your car, no? Id call that a more than generous offer. Its over what you say you can get on a private sale.

Yes, Acura still makes money on you. But at that point the decision is up to you: take a very generous offer into an '04TL, or sell/trade the car yourself and buy something else. The reason they gave you a good offer is that they obviously want to retain you as a customer.

If Acura offered me the same thing for my wife's TL, Id take it in a hearbeat. My dealer treats me like a king, and I really like the cars. Its really weird to see how different Honda is though, with a "lowly" Accord.

-Chris

 

Invoice on the '04TL is about 27,000 (approx.) .. why on earth would I have to pay $32 (before t.t.l.) for a new one if this is ACURA'S fault??? You guys aren't understanding the principle of the matter here (for those of you who actually think this is a good offer).

So they cough up $2000 more than what I'd get for my car privately, and I HAVE to stay in an Acura, more specifically another TL that hasn't been out long enough to establish whether the new tranny is bullet-proof. I'm sure it is, but the truth remains to be seen.

I'd rather TAKE the $2000 hit, buy a year old G35 or something, and never have to put money into Acura again by way of service visits, etc.

"very generous" to me means I give them my used TL-S and another 4 or 5 grand, and I get into a new TL. You guys have a jaded sense of "generous." But to each his own.

I agree w/ 1sicklex ... why should i continue to pay for this transmission issue .. after two trannies??? I would have been on my first tranny in a Chevy Cavalier!

Sometimes people forget that "luxury" also includes things commonly taken for granted, as in: reliability, dependibility, etc. Just cuz it's got Acura on the trunk don't mean it's luxury to me.

 

I did NOT want the new TL for free... yes, i did state that as my personal resolution to the matter thru the BBB, but realistically, i was willing to pay up to $6000.00 to add to my TL-S to get into a new TL .. I think that is MORE THAN FAIR of me to accept an offer like that. They sell me the TL for invoice, i give them $6000.00 to cover the spread, they sell my car for $23,000 and everyone's happy, all they lost was a little off the top of a new TL. How is THAT unrealistic?

 

Did you ever stub your toe on something while walking around the house, look down, and realize it was your son's toy and then curse the toy??? Well, it's a little like that, except this time it's my $34,000 car and i can't help but vent a little... congrats on your new TL.

 

OK, I see the point. You wanted an '04 TL for invoice, and a the best market price for your car.

'04 TL with Auto, no nav, no "summer tires" invoices for 29,750. They said your car + 10,500, so they gave you 19,250 for your car. Yes, its 3K less than you can get at private sale, so your point is made. The *only* thing that gains you is the fact that you dont have to deal with the private sale, and perhaps you could strike up a deal for extra stuff on the '04 (ext. warranty, spoiler, free maintenance, etc). Also, if they were willing to give you a car with Nav, that 3K difference turns into 1K (invoice on a '04 TL with nav, still no summer tires, is about 31,500).

NOTE: I used pricing for the automatic only, which may or may not be your thing at this point


And now Im disappointed again, because this is pretty much what I wanted Honda to do for my car. Unless past record doesnt predict future performance, Ill end up in the same boat as you: a fixed Honda that Ill keep for as long as it takes me to find a new car. Right now im leaning towards the Mazda 3, which is a huge change from the Accord, but it comes with a 5 speed, so not only will the type of car be changing, but my TBNT (time between new transmissions) should greatly increase.

And thats a car thats less dependable than any Honda. Go figure.

Good luck with it, man!! If you arent happy with the deal, take the new tranny and walk (no pun intended), then just get rid of the car at your leisure. Id also make sure that Honda/Acura knows what you think of them, especially if you do end up selling it.

-Chris