SodaLuvr

I discovered this weekend that NAPA's Ultra Premium rotors carry a lifetime warranty against defects. I called two different NAPA stores in two different cities, and they both told me that if the rotor warps before it is worn to the discard thickness, they will replace them at no cost under warranty.

While these rotors will not hold up as well under high-performance use compared to the Rotora, RacingBrake, etc, they will work great for many daily drivers. As far as I can tell, they are repackaged Raybestos Advanced Technology Rotors, which are Raybestos' top-of-the-line offerings.

The part # is UP 86795. The list price is $73.49, but the price is probably going to vary between $60-$75/rotor depending on the NAPA location and the discounts that you qualify for (e.g. AAA).

bibledriver

Or, for $75 bucks a pop, check out racingbrake setups. They are great quality materials and good company not focused on production volume, but braking performance

SodaLuvr

Braking performance is going to depend more on the pad used than the rotor.

In addition, Racingbrake rotors are about $120/rotor compared to the $60-$75/rotor that these cost. I do not disagree that Racingbrake rotors work well and are superior to these especially under high-performance use, but there are many of us who do not require that level of performance. A good quality OEM replacement rotor with a lifetime warranty (life of the rotor) against warping would satisfy many members.

bibledriver

pad determines performance under standard conditions. Rotor dertermines those conditions. the racingbrake rotor is designed SPECIFICALLY to keep the rotors cooloer under braking making normal street brake pads more capable of providing friction without fade. This being the case, coupled with the fact that they use better metal than United (guaranteed) they will also be MUCH less susceptible to warpage and cracking, making them LESS expensive in the long run. They have a couple of options that are designed for braking performance depending on your needs/desires.

Note: less expensive part, does not equal less expensive solution. Period

ChrisQ1980

Nice, thanks for the info. For someone who just does regular driving/commuting this seems to be a great alternative. If you drive agressivly or track your car on the weekends Racingbrake should be the other option.

bibledriver

Don't take me wrong - you WILL spend less but just to give an example:

My wife, (aka grandma driver) had her 3G TL (identical rotor and caliper setup) for not too long before her rotors were begining to shimmy. So, I am not just saying "spend more money, I did." On the contrary, I am saying "save money in the long run (invest)." Not to mention who wants to deal with new rotors all the dang time, even if it is warrantied. So, even if you are not a "track driver," you will definitely benefit from the better rotors. My wifes car has the lesser of the two RB rotors and they are great even with the OEM pads. I on the other hand have the 2-piece with RB pads and I love them too, more for performance and weight saving reasons.

SodaLuvr

Also keep in mind that replacing the rotor does not always address the root cause of the pedal pulsation.

If you have excessive runout on the hub assembly, regardless of whether you install Napa, Racingbrake, Rotora, etc rotors, the problem will return. This is why runout should always be checked after the new rotors are installed. You should always index the rotor to the hub and find the mounting position with the lowest runout. Overtime, excessive runout will cause disc thickness variation, which is one cause of pulsation problems.

bibledriver

Runout is a problem, yet when a 1.5 year old car has steering wheel and pedal shake, which were remedied by the new rotors, there is very little argument for runout. Further, find a shop that checks hub and disc runout when there are vibrations under braking and I will refer everybody I know to them . . . doesn't happen. Most will slap new rotors or spin existing ones and pads $350 please. Thank you very much.

Buy quality and save money

SodaLuvr

I didn't say that runout was a problem in your case specifically, I said that it could be a cause in some cases of pedal pulsation. In addition, excessive runout can cause a rotor to develop DTV over time, which will lead to pedal pulsation.

I don't know which shops you're going to, but nearly all of the shops that I take my cars to do check rotor runout either with a dial indicator or with an OCL before and after servicing.

bibledriver

I don't go to shops. Worked there during college, been there, done that, know how techs treat cars, and that very few shops emphasize high quality work.

wildcat71

the one cure for rotor warpage i had on my Civic was to find a shop that resurfaced the rotors while they were still installed on the vehicle. on some of the newer cars thats what the auto manufacturer recommends when doing a brake job, is to service/resurface rotors while still installed on vehicle.

SodaLuvr

Exactly, because on-the-vehicle resurfacing eliminates rotor runout. This is because the rotors are resurfaced so that they are parallel to the hub.

bibledriver

So are you saying the hub is bent?

bibledriver

on the car lathe is nice, but they started doing that due to the presson rotors of 90-94 on the accords and equivalent.

SodaLuvr

Captive rotors in the Accord was not the only reason why OCL became popular in the industry. Vehicles were becoming more and more sensitive to lateral runout and an OCL was the only way to correct the problem. Chrysler, Ford, GM, etc all recommend the OCL for rotor resurfacing. It wasn't just Honda.

yunginTL

can someone explain runout?

SodaLuvr

Wobble.

bibledriver

variation of the lateral (sideways) position of the disc surface in relation to a fixed point. Think warping. The idea is that a hub may have its own runout, and therefore cause the shimmy in the brakes even if rotors are not warped. I think it is a myth! haha

SodaLuvr

Not quite. Warping is a result of disc thickness variation. Runout will eventually cause disc thickness variation as it causes the pads to contact certain spots on the rotor during driving. Eventually this will cause thickness variation, which results in the driver noticing a pulsation problem.

If this was a myth, manufacturers would not require an on-the-vehicle lathe. Limits for runout have become less and less over the years. For example, a G35 only allows 0.0014" of runout for the front rotors. In the past, anything less than 0.005" was acceptable.

bibledriver

haha, they said explain, in other words giving analagies to help the comprehension. It is only a myth cause I knew you would FREAK when you read it!
OCL's as you refer to them also account for warpage, not just runout

bibledriver

Warping is a generic term, not alway variation in thickness, can also be variation in lateral position/runout. If you have spun rotors on a lathe, you will know this to be true.

SodaLuvr

That isn't true.

You can have 0.005" of runout immediately after a brake job and you will not have any pulsation problems. Why? Because the caliper will move WITH the runout.

Only after a few thousand miles (after the high and low spots exist) will the pedal pulsation be felt--that's because the thickness variation has developed.

01tl4tl

If your caliper is causing the pads to hit the rotor at any point of rotation - after bedded in- you probably installed OE shims on top of the shims attached to the replacement pads!!
If there were ongoing contact you would eat brake pads- as verified by anyone who has experienced a failed caliper in the partially ON position

On the average TL- its not an issue of hub runout- much as some with freaky brake probs would like to believe

If you had an encounter with the curb- you bet there could be an issue with hub- now!
but in the average case- its stock rotors that cant take the heat generated- its not like OE is the best stuff made- just the best price-lowest price to the factory

roxburydog

hate to sound slow but is runout/warpage a common problem with 3gen TL's?

roxburydog

correction... i meant 2G

SodaLuvr

Wrong!

While I would NEVER recommend reusing OE shims on aftermarket pads, the caliper piston will compensate for the added thickness of the OE shims. This will not be the cause of the problem.

01tl4tl

the caliper piston is only on one side of a stock caliper TL- we are talking about
Some recent threads on the exact prob of installed pads (on a brembo no less) and used double shims- boy did that take up the 1mm clearance the pads normally sit off the rotor~

Soda- you are not the endallexpert- neither am I- but I have worked on cars professionally- for decades,-- I learned a lot in that time, and have been in my 01s brake system and a few other ziners several times now- which gives me a bit of insight to certain problems

You are on a warped hub rampage- and I have not seen one example of a TL with that as the cause of crappy rotor syndrome

SodaLuvr

I challenge you to contact the Bendix Answerman line and ask them the same questions. I think they'll agree with me about the shims.

bibledriver

Ok, so what did I say that wasn't true? I said OCL accounts for warpage and runout at same time. True. I said lateral variation is a form (more common than thickness variation if I were to say) of warpage to. Warpage is a generic term. True.

So, have you yourself lathed rotors, or no?

bibledriver

Evidently it is common. I bought my Acura near 2 yrs ago and the rotors were already a bit warped. Then I put some cheap rotors that looked cool. Rears were warped out of the box. Sodaluvr would say I have runout and I should have indexed it. BUT, when I bought RacingBrake Rotors, they were perfect right out of the box (thus, not runout) and I have nothing but a positive experience. This is why I am saying . . .

and

Buy cheap and you will have poor heat dissipation and it WILL lead to warped rotors; 2g and 3g

SodaLuvr

Yes, I have lathed a few rotors in my life.

I guess if you want to use "warpage" as fairly generic term, then I guess you're right. But generally, warpage is referred to the common disc thickness variation that causes pedal pulsation, not runout.

acutee

Only if I have known, I would go this round for life time warranty ( if they are not at the thin limit.)

01tl4tl

Back to the original intent of this thread when Soda found a cheaper alternative for rotors at $75 each for front- standard- non slotted- is that correct soda?
What brands are being compared with the bendix-?
we need apples to apples comparison, not RacingBrake or Rotora to Bendix or Raybestos, which local stores sell for nearly $100 each- that pushed me to get hi performance stuff for a few dollars more
but thats me

SodaLuvr

List is about $73, but with a little haggling and AAA discount, you could get them for about $60.

Bendix ???

01tl4tl

ok but how does their price compare to other brands
What makes these rotors the cheaper alternative??? thats my question

01tl4tl

I never got a 20 percent discount with aaa card- napa gives a little but not much

SodaLuvr

List price is 73.49.

My local NAPA store sells it for 65.69.

AAA gets another 5% off (or so).

SodaLuvr

The Raybestos Advanced Technology, Wagner, Centric Premium or Brembo offerings are all priced between $50-$60/rotor depending on the store.

Like I've said, the NAPA Ultra Premium rotors are repackaged Raybestos Advanced Technology rotors. Their quality and price are competitive with the premium offerings from other brands.