crazym0nkey

So yesterday night i was testing out the gate shifting method and on first i reved up to like 7.2 then i shifted and it hit like 7.5 but bounced in the red line....is this really bad for our cars? especially our trannys? But yeah on the side note....i burn the shit outta my friend's E320

bigdaddy-fl

It's not good. The red line is a mark that shows the maximum stress that can be put on the engine without something breaking/bending. Red-lining momentarily may not break the engine but it will wear it out prematurely and if kept at a red line for too long would be sure to break it.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

The outward-bound force of a piston at 6000+ RPM is equivalent to the weight of an average male -- approximately 180+ pounds. Our engines are not balanced from the factory, which makes it even worse. The redline is where the momentum is so strong that the outward-bound force of the pistons could possibly break the crankshaft, rod, or the bearings, etc. Hitting redline once or twice is fine. But if you do it on a regular basis, you're gonna throw a rod pretty soon. The force of the rod in that case, FYI, is strong enough to blow right through the block. Basically, say bye-bye to your engine bay.

Linner

did u smell something buring when u redline bc thats your engine

fla-tls

What you hit is called fuel cut-off. It's at a different RPM level than the redline. Our cars redline at 6900 and fuel shutoff at 7400 (I've hit it too).

You get absolutely no gain from taking the engine above redline. The horsepower decreases and you run the risk of hurting the engine. Keep it in D5... The computer shifts better than any human could.

Seotaji

thing is, honda sets redline below what is dangerous, b/c they don't want people testing it out.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Of course. Honda/Acura is probably the most risk-averse car company out there.

The peak horsepower on our cars come in 6100 RPM. Redline is 6900 RPM. That means that from the moment you hit 6100 to until you hit the redline, you're actually losing horsepower. But why do people redline? Well, because, the higher RPM you shift at, the closer you will be to the peak horsepower RPM in the next gear. While it is a noble effort, it is not worth the stress on the engine.

brianlin87

iTrader: (1)

i hate D5... you lose a lotta power and all the trannies "fail" when they're in D5, so the basis of ur comment is basically "nothing"

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

What do you suppose the best thing to do is, then? I mean, next to swapping in a 6-speed manual transmission.

It doesn't matter if you're in D4 or D5. The computer is still calibrated to shift at the optimal RPM to produce adequate power while obtaining the highest fuel efficiency possible. If you leave it in D5, the computer has 5 gears to play with. If you leave it in D4, it has 4 gears to play with. That's all. Just because you take it out of D5, that doesn't magically rid you of the negative things of the auto transmission.

No human can shift faster or smarter than a computer. That's what it comes down to. People won't accept it, but it's the truth. Plus I've never heard of someone blowing the engine due to a misshift on an auto.

Don't get me wrong. I love driving a stick. But if I live in a heavy-traffic area, or am serious about drag racing, then I will go for an auto with a stall.

fla-tls

You are a newbie ass who doesn't know what he's talking about. I've made MANY runs down the 1/4 mile track and have yet to do better than just leaving it in D5. Sportshifting, gate shifting - none of them work better than the computer. Period.

BTW - with the design defect they described in a 1000+ page document to NHTSA, they'd fail no matter what you did.

@cUr@-TL

i dont want to offend you but... if you cannot accelerate faster by using ss/gate shift, u cant drive.

i have made many runs too... and everytime i gate shifted (or SSed in a few cases), i got better times. (both 0-60 and 100+)


@cUr@-TL

fla-tls

I always appreciate the responses of veteran A-TL members.

Perhaps you could pass along some driving tips?

@cUr@-TL

just floor the shit outta ur ride and gateshift a bit before redline then u can shift at like 6700rpm (with a TL-P) and get killer times

very simple as u can see

the first shift is the most important... if you leave the car in D4 (or D5 for 2000+) the car will shift too soon.


@cUr@-TL

NICEUP

Can you clarify "gateshifting"? does that mean you are using ss. If it is can you give a more detail breakdown of when you should shift so that you would not burn out the engine/tranny. Meaning switch from1st gear to 2nd at ------rpm , second to third at -----rpm and so on and so on.

Also are you doing this assuming someone has everything stock as I do or are if someone has mods. Those how hard you push the engine depend on what mods you have, meaning do I need mods to push the car harder or can you do the same with stock.

I am planning on getting an icebox, but before I do that i want to get my best time at stock so that I can know the degree of my improvement if any.

DrivebyTL-S 03

AHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHA if you were serious about drag racing then you would definitely get a manual transmission but youre not and I can obviously see that

Type S Lady

Very well put

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

And you don't know what you're talking about. The fastest Corvette ever built is the LPE Twin Turbo and it has a 4L80E Hydramatic 4-speed automatic transmission.

Go to the track one of these days. And check out some of the muscle/pony cars running 10's and 11's. Nearly 2/3 are automatics.

We could never push that much on our transmission. But just in case you didn't know, there are automatic transmissions that can handle 600+ hp.

SCTL-SS

My best time and consistant times at the track have been in
D-5. Of course I could leave in D-3 since third gear is the most it gets on 1/4. Manuals wear quicker, brake more often and are not as consistant. having said that you do save some HP with a manual but for the drag an auto is the way to go.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Yep. But even with an auto, you could get a torque converter, and a stall, then run just as fast as a stick. I don't know why people think auto is so much slower. It's not. And the fact is, like I already said, it's humanly impossible to calculate the precise shift points or shift faster than a computer. Simple as that.

Driveby is like my friend with an '01 WS6. He's always ridiculing auto WS6 drivers and how it's so much slower. We once saw a auto WS6 with a rollcage and drag radials at a bar we go all the time. He laughed at it after looking inside. "I could rape this car. It's an auto."

I took a step back, looked at the tires, and the rollcage (13's or faster requires a rollcage). Chances are, it's got some mods. So I pointed that out. But he goes, "Dude, Mine's a 6-speed with Flowmaster's. I could beat this car."

Yeah, OK. Of course I didn't even mention that fact that the fifth and the sixth gears are overdrivers on the Tremec T-56. He's not worth my time to argue with. Kind of like Driveby.

NICEUP

Can someone please answer my prev. post. Sorry about re-posting it, but I need to know.

Can you clarify "gateshifting"? does that mean you are using ss. If it is can you give a more detail breakdown of when you should shift so that you would not burn out the engine/tranny. Meaning switch from1st gear to 2nd at ------rpm , second to third at -----rpm and so on and so on.

Also are you doing this assuming someone has everything stock as I do or are if someone has mods. Those how hard you push the engine depend on what mods you have, meaning do I need mods to push the car harder or can you do the same with stock.

Which one gives you faster acceleration. Leaving it in D4 or sport shift considering I have a stock 99tl?

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Gateshifting is when you are physically moving the shift lever through each gear.

Leaving it D5 is full automatic mode. Moving it the left of D5 is SportShift. Gateshifting is when you move the shift lever all the way down to D1, then manually shift to D2 yourself, then D3, and so on and so forth. Did that make sense?

Type S Lady

Gateshifting makes me feel like I'm coming off the line a lot harder.

fla-tls

Gateshifting is manually moving the lever from 1->2->3->4->5. It's not the same as sportshift, because sportshift automatically does the 1->2 shift for you.

I agree with the Pure Adrenaline and SCTL-SS in that an auto with a high stall torque converter will give a manual a good run for the money - even with the higher drivetrain loss. Also, it's very consistent. It's too easy to mess up shifting on a manual (or to lack consistency), and gateshifting the 1->2 shift is also fairly difficult. Many times you shift too late and end up hitting fuel cut off (which would kill your time).

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, when you gateshift, the computer knows you want to race the car, then send extra power to the rear wheels.

ou sig

I have a '99 also, you tell me...when you floor it (not in SS) when does the tranny shift??? well Ill tell you...right before redline. The exact thing you would do if you were in SS. The only thing about SS is you can shift a little earlier and its fun sometimes. Our trannys and ECU shift at the correct moment EVERY TIME.

ou sig

Rear wheels I assume you are talking about real drag cars...not our front wheel drive

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

True.

But our SS wasn't designed to be used in drag racing. It's more for holding a gear through turns so you can exit faster.

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

I was completely joking. Just poking fun at Type S Lady.


Disclaimer --

The computer does not make any recognition or changes to the performance of the vehicle whatsoever when you gateshift. And our cars are NOT rear wheel drive.

Type S Lady

You guys are nuts!

NICEUP

Keep in mind that I have a 99tl with a 4 speed tranny. I can manualy while in ss shift from 1st to 2nd. My question was when do I shift for the best performance. 1st to 2nd at ------rpm, 2nd to 3rd at -----rpm and so on and so on.

fla-tls

Probably a few hundred RPM prior to redline. It will take a fraction of a second to shift, and will probably shift just above redline.

Or - play it safe and keep it in D4...

DrivebyTL-S 03

okay then explain to me why all of the professional drag racers using manual transmissions when they could use automatics and be perfect?

DrivebyTL-S 03

oh and why did Stephen Papadakis use a manual transmisson on his record breaking civic? Couldnt an automatic transmission break his record driven by anyone cause its "perfect"

and tell me how many records at the track were broken by drivers using automatic transmissions. actually find me ONE

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Ha, yeah, professionals. In fact, the NHRA uses a two-speed manual because they simply don't need any more than that. But now we're talking like a thousand + horsepower. Professional drag racers and we ordinary people are totally different stories.

Have you ever actually been to a track and talked to a bunch of serious drag racers? Not professional ones, but people like us who just have wicked fast cars. A lot of them run automatics. You can sit there and tell me that Papadakis uses a manual. But he's a professional racing for big money on the line. He's trained to shift without messing up, unlike the rest 99.9% of the population.

NICEUP

When I do that is shifts way before the redline.

`ill*tl

... shift sooner.

NICEUP

Do you know at rpm do I switch each gear?

DrivebyTL-S 03

stay on track brother were talking getting "serious" with your drag racing to quote you so are we talking "seriously" racing the next rice burner you see on the interstate? ahaha. Sure automatic does shift better than a majority of drivers, but you were talking about "seriously" drag racing and if you were "seriously" drag racing then you would be a sucker with an automatic. Oh and I have been to the track several times there are many in Virginia and will be going to Mount Summit in West VA this Summer to refine my driving skills. Also I have been to "Metro" several times. Have you heard of Metro way up there in Michigan? Probably not but its THE spot for drag racing in the DC Metropolitan area, and at either location a great majority of the drivers are manual transmissions

Pure Adrenaline

iTrader: (2)

Good for you.

So you automatically think professional drivers when I say "serious"?

OK. So you think a stick is better. I say auto is better equipped with a stall torque converter. Let's just leave it that way. I don't feel like arguing anymore.

DrivebyTL-S 03

I dont feel like arguing anymore either but I covered both scenarios the track and the street. later