Forbes: Why Acura Isn't Keeping Up
02-24-2004, 02:48 AM
#2
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Very informative article. And everything they said is true, and part of the reason why many people dont really respect Acura as being a Luxary Level Car.
Simply stated, people think of Acura as a glorified Honda. Meanwhile people in Lexus's think it has nothing to do with Toyota and same for Infiniti. They need to step it up like the article said.
Simply stated, people think of Acura as a glorified Honda. Meanwhile people in Lexus's think it has nothing to do with Toyota and same for Infiniti. They need to step it up like the article said.
02-24-2004, 07:45 AM
#3
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Interesting..they have to do a few things :
1. offer rwd in their flagship
2. remove the acura badge from downscale vehicles (rsx)
3. offer AWD!!!
4. stop under tiring their cars
1. offer rwd in their flagship
2. remove the acura badge from downscale vehicles (rsx)
3. offer AWD!!!
4. stop under tiring their cars
02-24-2004, 08:11 AM
#4
Originally posted by NYDesi80
Simply stated, people think of Acura as a glorified Honda. Meanwhile people in Lexus's think it has nothing to do with Toyota and same for Infiniti. They need to step it up like the article said.
Simply stated, people think of Acura as a glorified Honda. Meanwhile people in Lexus's think it has nothing to do with Toyota and same for Infiniti. They need to step it up like the article said.
02-24-2004, 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by msu79gt82
Interesting read, but it seems to have been written before (or w/o consideration of) the new TL
Interesting read, but it seems to have been written before (or w/o consideration of) the new TL
Case in point: When I went to the Lexus dealership, there were marble floors, leather couches, and a $80,000 LS430 inside for me to play with and touch, just to be reminded of how nice Lexus was. The Acura dealship was in the same building as GMC and Chevy, and the only Acura inside was a cheap RSX. The salesmen at the Lexus dealership were more polite and less pushy; the salemen at the Acura dealership were cut from the same cloth as any old Honda dealership, and were kind of annoying. If I hadn't already known what I wanted in a car, the Lexus sales environment would have won me over in a heartbeat, which explains why their sales are so much higher. Acura needs to separate their dealerships from lower-end brands, and establish some standards of service more like Lexus'. Oh, and although I wouldn't buy it, I think a big-@ss SUV would help too, not to mention an RL or something that can actually compete with the LS430.
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02-24-2004, 11:22 AM
#8
Originally posted by mrogers
Case in point: When I went to the Lexus dealership, there were marble floors, leather couches, and a $80,000 LS430 inside for me to play with and touch, just to be reminded of how nice Lexus was.
Case in point: When I went to the Lexus dealership, there were marble floors, leather couches, and a $80,000 LS430 inside for me to play with and touch, just to be reminded of how nice Lexus was.
02-24-2004, 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by vtec11
What did they put inside the LS430 to make it $80k.
What did they put inside the LS430 to make it $80k.
02-24-2004, 12:51 PM
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ACURA strives to provide the "most bang for the buck" The TL cost less than the ES the MDX cost less than the RX/GX and the RL is less than the LS. Acura knows what they are doing; they are NOT trying to build an LS 
02-24-2004, 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by msu79gt82
ACURA strives to provide the "most bang for the buck" The TL cost less than the ES the MDX cost less than the RX/GX and the RL is less than the LS. Acura knows what they are doing; they are NOT trying to build an LS
ACURA strives to provide the "most bang for the buck" The TL cost less than the ES the MDX cost less than the RX/GX and the RL is less than the LS. Acura knows what they are doing; they are NOT trying to build an LS
The MDX can be compared to the RX, but GX no way, as the GX is bigger.
The TL can be compared to the ES and this would be a fair comparison.
Acura's flagship car... I dont want to say sux... but is not up to bar with its competition. It compares more to an A6. They need to come out with like another line of cars and SUV's. A V8 Flagship car is desperately needed and larger SUV is needed. Even Infiniti now has so many SUV's and the all new QX56.. which is amazing... but too big for me. But I know that Acura is missing out on a huge market.
02-24-2004, 04:45 PM
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What did they put inside the LS430 to make it $80k.
Ultra Luxury Selection (requires Interior Upgrade Package) - $11,320 [2]
- Mark Levinson® [3] 11-speaker 240-watt [4] Premium Audio System
- Lexus DVD Navigation System [5] with voice-command NAV button, backup camera[6] and Bluetooth™
- Dynamic Laser Cruise Control [7]
- Adaptive Variable Air Suspension
- Laminated side glass
- Manual rear-door window sunshades
- Intuitive Parking Assist
- Front and rear climate-control seats with heat/cool knob
- Headlamp washers
- Power door closers
- SmartAccess
- Rear-Seat Luxury Group:
Seat adjuster with power slide, headrest with memory and massager
Air conditioner controls with Air Purifier
Cool box
Audio controls
Swivel-type reading lamps
Ultra Luxury Selection with Pre-Collision System (PCS) [8] (requires Interior Upgrade Package) - $13,570 [2]
- Mark Levinson® [3] 11-speaker 240-watt [4] Premium Audio System
- Lexus DVD Navigation System [5] with voice-command NAV button, backup camera[6] and Bluetooth™
- Dynamic Radar Cruise Control [7]
- Pre-Collision System (PCS)[8]
- Adaptive Variable Air Suspension
- Laminated side glass
- Manual rear-door window sunshades
- Intuitive Parking Assist
- Front and rear climate-control seats with heat/cool knob
- Headlamp washers
- Power door closers
- SmartAccess
- Rear-Seat Luxury Group:
Seat adjuster with power slide, headrest with memory and massager
Air conditioner controls with Air Purifier
Cool box
Audio controls
Swivel-type reading lamps
Custom Luxury Selection (requires Interior Upgrade Package) - $5,935 [2]
- Mark Levinson® [3] 11-speaker 240-watt [4] Premium Audio System
- Lexus DVD Navigation System [5] with voice-command NAV button, backup camera[6] and Bluetooth™
- Dynamic Laser Cruise Control [7]
- Laminated side glass
- Intuitive Parking Assist
- Front climate-control seats with heat/cool knob
- Headlamp washers
- Power door closers
- Rear-seat heaters
Custom Luxury Selection with Pre-Collision System (PCS) [8] (requires Interior Upgrade Package) - $8,185 [2]
- Mark Levinson® [3] 11-speaker 240-watt [4] Premium Audio System
- Lexus DVD Navigation System [5] with voice-command NAV button, backup camera[6] and Bluetooth™
- Dynamic Radar Cruise Control [7]
- Pre-Collision System (PCS)[8]
- Laminated side glass
- Intuitive Parking Assist
- Front climate-control seats with heat/cool knob
- Headlamp washers
- Power door closers
- Rear-seat heaters
Premium Package - $1,390 [2]
- Intuitive Parking Assist
- Front climate-control seats with heat/cool knob
- Rear-seat heaters
Modern Luxury Package - $4,980 [2]
- Mark Levinson® [3] 11-speaker 240-watt [4] Premium Audio System
- Lexus DVD Navigation System [5] with voice-command NAV button, backup camera[6] and Bluetooth™
- Intuitive Parking Assist
- Front climate-control seats with heat/cool knob
- Rear-seat heaters
Sport Package with Polished-Finish Alloy Wheels [9] - $220 [2]
- Euro-tuned Sport Suspension
- 18-in polished-finish alloy wheels with P245/45R18 tires[10]
Sport Package with Chrome Wheels [9] - $1,920 [2]
- Euro-tuned Sport Suspension
- 18-in chrome wheels with P245/45R18 tires[10]
Individual Factory Options
- Interior Upgrade Package with perforated luxury aniline leather trim (requires Ultra Luxury or Custom Luxury Selection) - $2,100
- Interior Upgrade Package with perforated luxury leather trim (requires Ultra Luxury or Custom Luxury Selection) - $1,460
- 17-in all-season tires with Lexus Chrome Wheels [10] - $1,700
- SmartAccess
02-24-2004, 06:09 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
When I went to the Lexus dealership, there were marble floors, leather couches, and a $80,000 LS430 inside for me to play with and touch, just to be reminded of how nice Lexus was.
And, it seems to me that Acura needs to be creating its own niche, a sort of "in-between", not quite Lexus. I'm perfectly content with that, as I'm looking to buy a maximum-value car, not a poseur "experience."
I think they're fine right where they are, except that the RL needs horribly fixed. And, I'm of the opinion that the cars need names again. Letters are becoming so "90s." The TL deserves the Legend moniker, and the new RL deserves something more. Make it look like the TL, but stretched in all directions, give it a high powered 3.5l version of the TL motor, add iVTEC and hybrid tech, with motor assist on the rear wheels. Call it the Genesis, or something- a memorable NAME, not two letters.
Todd
02-24-2004, 09:38 PM
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I agree with Todd. Bang for the buck...there is not a better entry level performance luxury car. I could care less about the status. Give me a reaonably priced car that moves, and yet can be comfortable to ride in without looking like a 16 year olds car.
Here is something interesting to not though: was at the dealership last week for an oil change talking with my sales rep. He said they Acura is hurting bad. They are selling MDX's but not much else. It seems a great number of people are coming off of TL leases, and return to Acura for a replacement. The two options are:
-TL: Way more expensive than last time they bought a TL (with good reason...the buyer just doesn't expect it)
-TLX: A 4 cylinder engine. Once you have a 6, you don't want to go back to a whiny 4.
Will be interesting to see this article next year...
Here is something interesting to not though: was at the dealership last week for an oil change talking with my sales rep. He said they Acura is hurting bad. They are selling MDX's but not much else. It seems a great number of people are coming off of TL leases, and return to Acura for a replacement. The two options are:
-TL: Way more expensive than last time they bought a TL (with good reason...the buyer just doesn't expect it)
-TLX: A 4 cylinder engine. Once you have a 6, you don't want to go back to a whiny 4.
Will be interesting to see this article next year...
02-24-2004, 10:22 PM
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Robot-filled Tahara sets standard for Toyota, world
Japanese facility puts focus on details
By Christine Tierney / The Detroit News
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It is the benchmark of benchmarks: Toyota Motor Co.p.’s untouchable Tahara plant on Japan’s eastern coast.
In 2003, for the second year in a row, J.D. Power and Associates bestowed its highest honor — the platinum award for best quality worldwide — on the Tahara factory that produces Lexus and Toyota vehicles.
Owners of models built at the plant, including the Lexus GS 300 and 430 and LS 430 luxury sedans, reported 63 defects per 100 vehicles — about one-third fewer than owners of premium cars built at the best BMW AG and Mercedes-Benz auto plants in Germany, according to J.D. Power data.
Conceived during Japan’s economic boom, the plant was filled with robots, amid fears of labor shortages and Toyota’s great faith in automation. As one of the automaker’s newer plants, it also allowed Toyota to experiment with new manufacturing ideas and production methods.
Set on a small peninsula on the Mikawa Bay, the factory was designed to be “worker friendly” to attract a new generation of workers who had viewed factory work as dirty, arduous and dangerous.
“It’s one of the most beautiful plants, and very neat and tidy,” said Credit Suisse First Boston analyst Koji Endo in Tokyo. The setting is lovely, too, with fishing on the quays outside.
Built in 1979, “Tahara was actually considered a mistake because it was much too automated,” said auto analyst Maryann Keller of Maryann Keller and Associates in Greenwich, Conn. In terms of costs, “it was not a competitive factory when they built it.”
The sprawling plant is air-conditioned. Computer-controlled robots do the heavy lifting and dirty work. More than 95 percent of the stamping, welding and painting operations are automated, while plant workers focus on the trim and final assembly — the details a customer notices.
Today, Tahara produces 460,000 vehicles a year in its two body shops and three assembly plants. In addition to Lexus exports, the plant complex assembles Toyota’s domestic luxury car, the Crown, the RAV4 sport-utility vehicle and three other models.
Rival luxury automakers may murmur that Lexus cars are merely “souped-up Toyotas” because the two brands share a wide array of parts. But suppliers to Toyota know better.
Tahara sets and demands the highest standards.
Toyota, already a stickler for quality, will not accept components if defects exceed 50 per million parts shipped. In contrast, for Lexus vehicles, Tahara managers insist on fewer than 10 defects per million parts.
From the outset, former plant manager Kousuke Shiramizu, now executive vice president in charge of product and product engineering, established that the margin for error for Lexus vehicles would be half what it was at Toyota.
On average at Toyota, air leaks from car exhaust systems are held to 100 liters per minute, to reduce noise. On Lexus models produced at the Tahara plant, the ceiling is a stingy 8.6 liters of air per minute.
The plant’s strict quality checks include a final stretch of inspections for cars coming off the line under the unforgiving glare of very bright lights.
Toyota also tinkered with changes in the assembly line organization at Tahara, establishing several sub-assembly lines so temporary stoppages would not halt all production.
“Tahara’s the next plateau,” said consultant Dennis Pawley, former manufacturing chief at Chrysler. “Rather than having one continuous line, they’re going against the old adage and breaking up the line.”
Living up to Tahara’s standards keeps everyone at Toyota plants around the world on their toes.
Japanese facility puts focus on details
By Christine Tierney / The Detroit News
Comment on this story
Send this story to a friend
Get Home Delivery
It is the benchmark of benchmarks: Toyota Motor Co.p.’s untouchable Tahara plant on Japan’s eastern coast.
In 2003, for the second year in a row, J.D. Power and Associates bestowed its highest honor — the platinum award for best quality worldwide — on the Tahara factory that produces Lexus and Toyota vehicles.
Owners of models built at the plant, including the Lexus GS 300 and 430 and LS 430 luxury sedans, reported 63 defects per 100 vehicles — about one-third fewer than owners of premium cars built at the best BMW AG and Mercedes-Benz auto plants in Germany, according to J.D. Power data.
Conceived during Japan’s economic boom, the plant was filled with robots, amid fears of labor shortages and Toyota’s great faith in automation. As one of the automaker’s newer plants, it also allowed Toyota to experiment with new manufacturing ideas and production methods.
Set on a small peninsula on the Mikawa Bay, the factory was designed to be “worker friendly” to attract a new generation of workers who had viewed factory work as dirty, arduous and dangerous.
“It’s one of the most beautiful plants, and very neat and tidy,” said Credit Suisse First Boston analyst Koji Endo in Tokyo. The setting is lovely, too, with fishing on the quays outside.
Built in 1979, “Tahara was actually considered a mistake because it was much too automated,” said auto analyst Maryann Keller of Maryann Keller and Associates in Greenwich, Conn. In terms of costs, “it was not a competitive factory when they built it.”
The sprawling plant is air-conditioned. Computer-controlled robots do the heavy lifting and dirty work. More than 95 percent of the stamping, welding and painting operations are automated, while plant workers focus on the trim and final assembly — the details a customer notices.
Today, Tahara produces 460,000 vehicles a year in its two body shops and three assembly plants. In addition to Lexus exports, the plant complex assembles Toyota’s domestic luxury car, the Crown, the RAV4 sport-utility vehicle and three other models.
Rival luxury automakers may murmur that Lexus cars are merely “souped-up Toyotas” because the two brands share a wide array of parts. But suppliers to Toyota know better.
Tahara sets and demands the highest standards.
Toyota, already a stickler for quality, will not accept components if defects exceed 50 per million parts shipped. In contrast, for Lexus vehicles, Tahara managers insist on fewer than 10 defects per million parts.
From the outset, former plant manager Kousuke Shiramizu, now executive vice president in charge of product and product engineering, established that the margin for error for Lexus vehicles would be half what it was at Toyota.
On average at Toyota, air leaks from car exhaust systems are held to 100 liters per minute, to reduce noise. On Lexus models produced at the Tahara plant, the ceiling is a stingy 8.6 liters of air per minute.
The plant’s strict quality checks include a final stretch of inspections for cars coming off the line under the unforgiving glare of very bright lights.
Toyota also tinkered with changes in the assembly line organization at Tahara, establishing several sub-assembly lines so temporary stoppages would not halt all production.
“Tahara’s the next plateau,” said consultant Dennis Pawley, former manufacturing chief at Chrysler. “Rather than having one continuous line, they’re going against the old adage and breaking up the line.”
Living up to Tahara’s standards keeps everyone at Toyota plants around the world on their toes.
02-24-2004, 11:12 PM
#17
Advanced
The writer seems to think that Acura needs to build bigger cars, but consider the possibility that they are sticking to their niche, and their strength. Not every manufacturer is necessarily looking to win the volume game- a well-run business is focused on improving profits.
Judging Acura on '03 sales gains over '02 is misleading, since there were a limited number of new models relative to the competition. I'd venture that '04 sales will be substantially higher based on the fast-moving TL and the continued strength of the MDX.
Furthermore, and most importantly, I believe its safe to assume that Acura makes a very tidy average profit per vehicle sold vs. most other manufacturers. I don't see many posts on our favorite message boards that suggest customers are buying Acuras for invoice.
Judging Acura on '03 sales gains over '02 is misleading, since there were a limited number of new models relative to the competition. I'd venture that '04 sales will be substantially higher based on the fast-moving TL and the continued strength of the MDX.
Furthermore, and most importantly, I believe its safe to assume that Acura makes a very tidy average profit per vehicle sold vs. most other manufacturers. I don't see many posts on our favorite message boards that suggest customers are buying Acuras for invoice.
02-24-2004, 11:31 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Factory Option Packages
Ultra Luxury Selection (requires Interior Upgrade Package) - $11,320 [2]
- Mark Levinson® [3] 11-speaker 240-watt [4] Premium Audio System
- Lexus DVD Navigation System [5] with voice-command NAV button, backup camera[6] and Bluetooth™
- Dynamic Laser Cruise Control [7] - Why?
- Adaptive Variable Air Suspension - So?
- Laminated side glass - Fancy for Tint!
- Manual rear-door window sunshades - Umm Tint!
- Intuitive Parking Assist - Get real!
- Front and rear climate-control seats with heat/cool knob
- Headlamp washers - Seriously is this needed?
- Power door closers - Lazy much?
- SmartAccess - What?
- Rear-Seat Luxury Group:
- Seat adjuster with power slide, headrest with memory and massager - this is why people get in to accidents, falling assleep cause that car is massaging them.
Swivel-type reading lamps - Seriously?
Premium Package - $1,390 [2]
- Intuitive Parking Assist
- Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah
- Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah
- Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah
This just proves as the cars get smarter the driver's get more and more brain dammaged. I mean it's bad enough that people alone aren't intuitve enought to drive let alone deserve to have a driver's license. My point being is why do yo need intuitive parking? If you can't park you DO NOT NEED TO BE DRIVING!!![/B]
Factory Option Packages
Ultra Luxury Selection (requires Interior Upgrade Package) - $11,320 [2]
- Mark Levinson® [3] 11-speaker 240-watt [4] Premium Audio System
- Lexus DVD Navigation System [5] with voice-command NAV button, backup camera[6] and Bluetooth™
- Dynamic Laser Cruise Control [7] - Why?
- Adaptive Variable Air Suspension - So?
- Laminated side glass - Fancy for Tint!
- Manual rear-door window sunshades - Umm Tint!
- Intuitive Parking Assist - Get real!
- Front and rear climate-control seats with heat/cool knob
- Headlamp washers - Seriously is this needed?
- Power door closers - Lazy much?
- SmartAccess - What?
- Rear-Seat Luxury Group:
- Seat adjuster with power slide, headrest with memory and massager - this is why people get in to accidents, falling assleep cause that car is massaging them.
Swivel-type reading lamps - Seriously?
Premium Package - $1,390 [2]
- Intuitive Parking Assist
- Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah
- Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah
- Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah
This just proves as the cars get smarter the driver's get more and more brain dammaged. I mean it's bad enough that people alone aren't intuitve enought to drive let alone deserve to have a driver's license. My point being is why do yo need intuitive parking? If you can't park you DO NOT NEED TO BE DRIVING!!![/B]
02-24-2004, 11:37 PM
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To hell with lexus
I preferr an Acura over the Lexus, i agree that some Acura Dealerships need to focus on the Customer Experience not, let's see how many ways they can corn hole a customer...
02-25-2004, 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Robot-filled Tahara sets standard for Toyota, world
Japanese facility puts focus on details
By Christine Tierney / The Detroit News
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Send this story to a friend
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It is the benchmark of benchmarks: Toyota Motor Co.p.’s untouchable Tahara plant on Japan’s eastern coast.
In 2003, for the second year in a row, J.D. Power and Associates bestowed its highest honor — the platinum award for best quality worldwide — on the Tahara factory that produces Lexus and Toyota vehicles.
Owners of models built at the plant, including the Lexus GS 300 and 430 and LS 430 luxury sedans, reported 63 defects per 100 vehicles — about one-third fewer than owners of premium cars built at the best BMW AG and Mercedes-Benz auto plants in Germany, according to J.D. Power data.
Conceived during Japan’s economic boom, the plant was filled with robots, amid fears of labor shortages and Toyota’s great faith in automation. As one of the automaker’s newer plants, it also allowed Toyota to experiment with new manufacturing ideas and production methods.
Set on a small peninsula on the Mikawa Bay, the factory was designed to be “worker friendly” to attract a new generation of workers who had viewed factory work as dirty, arduous and dangerous.
“It’s one of the most beautiful plants, and very neat and tidy,” said Credit Suisse First Boston analyst Koji Endo in Tokyo. The setting is lovely, too, with fishing on the quays outside.
Built in 1979, “Tahara was actually considered a mistake because it was much too automated,” said auto analyst Maryann Keller of Maryann Keller and Associates in Greenwich, Conn. In terms of costs, “it was not a competitive factory when they built it.”
The sprawling plant is air-conditioned. Computer-controlled robots do the heavy lifting and dirty work. More than 95 percent of the stamping, welding and painting operations are automated, while plant workers focus on the trim and final assembly — the details a customer notices.
Today, Tahara produces 460,000 vehicles a year in its two body shops and three assembly plants. In addition to Lexus exports, the plant complex assembles Toyota’s domestic luxury car, the Crown, the RAV4 sport-utility vehicle and three other models.
Rival luxury automakers may murmur that Lexus cars are merely “souped-up Toyotas” because the two brands share a wide array of parts. But suppliers to Toyota know better.
Tahara sets and demands the highest standards.
Toyota, already a stickler for quality, will not accept components if defects exceed 50 per million parts shipped. In contrast, for Lexus vehicles, Tahara managers insist on fewer than 10 defects per million parts.
From the outset, former plant manager Kousuke Shiramizu, now executive vice president in charge of product and product engineering, established that the margin for error for Lexus vehicles would be half what it was at Toyota.
On average at Toyota, air leaks from car exhaust systems are held to 100 liters per minute, to reduce noise. On Lexus models produced at the Tahara plant, the ceiling is a stingy 8.6 liters of air per minute.
The plant’s strict quality checks include a final stretch of inspections for cars coming off the line under the unforgiving glare of very bright lights.
Toyota also tinkered with changes in the assembly line organization at Tahara, establishing several sub-assembly lines so temporary stoppages would not halt all production.
“Tahara’s the next plateau,” said consultant Dennis Pawley, former manufacturing chief at Chrysler. “Rather than having one continuous line, they’re going against the old adage and breaking up the line.”
Living up to Tahara’s standards keeps everyone at Toyota plants around the world on their toes.
Robot-filled Tahara sets standard for Toyota, world
Japanese facility puts focus on details
By Christine Tierney / The Detroit News
Comment on this story
Send this story to a friend
Get Home Delivery
It is the benchmark of benchmarks: Toyota Motor Co.p.’s untouchable Tahara plant on Japan’s eastern coast.
In 2003, for the second year in a row, J.D. Power and Associates bestowed its highest honor — the platinum award for best quality worldwide — on the Tahara factory that produces Lexus and Toyota vehicles.
Owners of models built at the plant, including the Lexus GS 300 and 430 and LS 430 luxury sedans, reported 63 defects per 100 vehicles — about one-third fewer than owners of premium cars built at the best BMW AG and Mercedes-Benz auto plants in Germany, according to J.D. Power data.
Conceived during Japan’s economic boom, the plant was filled with robots, amid fears of labor shortages and Toyota’s great faith in automation. As one of the automaker’s newer plants, it also allowed Toyota to experiment with new manufacturing ideas and production methods.
Set on a small peninsula on the Mikawa Bay, the factory was designed to be “worker friendly” to attract a new generation of workers who had viewed factory work as dirty, arduous and dangerous.
“It’s one of the most beautiful plants, and very neat and tidy,” said Credit Suisse First Boston analyst Koji Endo in Tokyo. The setting is lovely, too, with fishing on the quays outside.
Built in 1979, “Tahara was actually considered a mistake because it was much too automated,” said auto analyst Maryann Keller of Maryann Keller and Associates in Greenwich, Conn. In terms of costs, “it was not a competitive factory when they built it.”
The sprawling plant is air-conditioned. Computer-controlled robots do the heavy lifting and dirty work. More than 95 percent of the stamping, welding and painting operations are automated, while plant workers focus on the trim and final assembly — the details a customer notices.
Today, Tahara produces 460,000 vehicles a year in its two body shops and three assembly plants. In addition to Lexus exports, the plant complex assembles Toyota’s domestic luxury car, the Crown, the RAV4 sport-utility vehicle and three other models.
Rival luxury automakers may murmur that Lexus cars are merely “souped-up Toyotas” because the two brands share a wide array of parts. But suppliers to Toyota know better.
Tahara sets and demands the highest standards.
Toyota, already a stickler for quality, will not accept components if defects exceed 50 per million parts shipped. In contrast, for Lexus vehicles, Tahara managers insist on fewer than 10 defects per million parts.
From the outset, former plant manager Kousuke Shiramizu, now executive vice president in charge of product and product engineering, established that the margin for error for Lexus vehicles would be half what it was at Toyota.
On average at Toyota, air leaks from car exhaust systems are held to 100 liters per minute, to reduce noise. On Lexus models produced at the Tahara plant, the ceiling is a stingy 8.6 liters of air per minute.
The plant’s strict quality checks include a final stretch of inspections for cars coming off the line under the unforgiving glare of very bright lights.
Toyota also tinkered with changes in the assembly line organization at Tahara, establishing several sub-assembly lines so temporary stoppages would not halt all production.
“Tahara’s the next plateau,” said consultant Dennis Pawley, former manufacturing chief at Chrysler. “Rather than having one continuous line, they’re going against the old adage and breaking up the line.”
Living up to Tahara’s standards keeps everyone at Toyota plants around the world on their toes.
02-25-2004, 04:29 PM
#21
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Originally posted by hemants
Interesting..they have to do a few things :
1. offer rwd in their flagship
2. remove the acura badge from downscale vehicles (rsx)
3. offer AWD!!!
4. stop under tiring their cars
Interesting..they have to do a few things :
1. offer rwd in their flagship
2. remove the acura badge from downscale vehicles (rsx)
3. offer AWD!!!
4. stop under tiring their cars
1.) Like the IS/ GS line in Lexus and Infiniti's G and M lines, it does give the consumer a choice when moving away from the old but true FF platform.
2.) I agree with eliminating the downscale ones, but offer "low level luxury" like the RSX Type-S and the Canadian 1.7 EL Premium but not the Touring/ SE models which costs a tad more than a fully loaded Honda version. These lower end ones do cheapen the Acura line.
3.) AWD definitely. Especially in climates like the upper north-east, FWD is OK but AWD is almost a must have.
4.) Maybe Honda can learn from the North American car makers. Some of them sell lots of their crappy unreliable ones simply because of re-released "eye-catchers" with oversized wheels, spoilers and skirts and flashy accoutrements.
One thing that drew me to Acura was the they made a difference from shopping for a Honda. Honda went on the repeat buyer and market reputation for making decent and reliable cars. But their sales, like other dealers tack, on every single major accessory and charge the consumer for it (floormats, CD player, wheel locks, etc..), as opposed to Acura's (and Lexus') all-in-one packages which has all these stuff (sans cosmetic items) in one model.
Honda are you listening???????????
02-25-2004, 05:03 PM
#22
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I couldn't agree more. Look at the 3-Series: you can pay from 35 to almost 60 thousand for one. And a while ago I was looking at new Ford explorers, and therea re vout 11 models to choose from, and I couldn't make sense of any of them. And after you finally pick one of 11 models, there are still thousands and thousands in add-ons.
04 'Acura TL: 1 model, 2 options (nav/spoiler).
02': TL-P/TL-S, Nav or spoiler.
04 'Acura TL: 1 model, 2 options (nav/spoiler).
02': TL-P/TL-S, Nav or spoiler.
02-25-2004, 06:02 PM
#23
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I don't think the cars matter at all. Its the dealerships, period. I think the dealerships in Houston are on par with the Chevrolet dealerships. They pretty much suck. When I went shopping at Lexus, the guy showed me a multi-million state-of-the-art service center - a completely different building down the street - built just solely to service cars. And the dealership itself was plush (this is Westside Lexus in Houston). Everyone here knows Acura builds a car just as good as Lexus for cheaper. Its not the cars. Its the slimeball dealers.
02-25-2004, 11:32 PM
#24
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Acura dealerships are bad, I can only guess Forbes is correct about profiability. Profitability is the key to good service if there isn't enough money in it customer satisfaction fails and that is the begining of the end. Lexis? I would be driving one if the Lexis sales person wasn't such a deek. So individual dealerships all have their issues.
I think Acura takes the price point. As fuel costs increase, and the economy really hits the skids fuel economy and smaller vehicles may take the wind out of some of the more traditional luxury car market. But even if that's the case, Acura sure missed out in the last 18 years.
As time and change marched on Acura has failed keep step, the new TL is a prime example. As we all know the 2nd generation TL would be a world beater in RWD, so what did Acura do about it? The 04 is still FWD and Acura is now taking flak about torque steer. Not to mention the 60/40 weight distribution and increasing quality control and design screw ups. Some we have experienced.
Acura is not really a separate luxury line, but a line made from slightly modified extra Honda parts. To a certain degree the 04 Honda line up puts Acura to shame. The 240 HP Accord, sedan and coupe are sweet. I recently saw a 6 speed, V-6 coupe test and it kicked Acura TL-s ass all over the hi-way. Honda has to have a little more respect for its premium brand, or no one else will.
I think Acura takes the price point. As fuel costs increase, and the economy really hits the skids fuel economy and smaller vehicles may take the wind out of some of the more traditional luxury car market. But even if that's the case, Acura sure missed out in the last 18 years.
As time and change marched on Acura has failed keep step, the new TL is a prime example. As we all know the 2nd generation TL would be a world beater in RWD, so what did Acura do about it? The 04 is still FWD and Acura is now taking flak about torque steer. Not to mention the 60/40 weight distribution and increasing quality control and design screw ups. Some we have experienced.
Acura is not really a separate luxury line, but a line made from slightly modified extra Honda parts. To a certain degree the 04 Honda line up puts Acura to shame. The 240 HP Accord, sedan and coupe are sweet. I recently saw a 6 speed, V-6 coupe test and it kicked Acura TL-s ass all over the hi-way. Honda has to have a little more respect for its premium brand, or no one else will.
02-26-2004, 12:06 AM
#25
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You make some good points there, BEIKAY. I just have two of my own to add: it's "Lexus", and what exactly is a "deek"? :P
Yeah, if they would have made the '04 TL a RWD w/ an AWD option...there would have been NO contest, NONE. However, I disagree with your assessment of the impact fuel prices have on true luxury buyers. My father falls into that category, he buys big BMWs and such, and likes the LS430 as well. Every time someone says something about high fuel prices he says, "Yeah...but you know what? It's not going to change my lifestyle. I'll just have to deal with it." And I think that is the prevailing truth among luxury car buyers: for the most part, people that spend close to $40k or far more aren't going to care how much the fuel costs. The majority of the people who truly care about fuel efficiency enough to alter their automotive buying habits usually are looking at cars down in the Civic/Carolla/lower end Camry/Accord range, not the luxury cars.
Yeah, if they would have made the '04 TL a RWD w/ an AWD option...there would have been NO contest, NONE. However, I disagree with your assessment of the impact fuel prices have on true luxury buyers. My father falls into that category, he buys big BMWs and such, and likes the LS430 as well. Every time someone says something about high fuel prices he says, "Yeah...but you know what? It's not going to change my lifestyle. I'll just have to deal with it." And I think that is the prevailing truth among luxury car buyers: for the most part, people that spend close to $40k or far more aren't going to care how much the fuel costs. The majority of the people who truly care about fuel efficiency enough to alter their automotive buying habits usually are looking at cars down in the Civic/Carolla/lower end Camry/Accord range, not the luxury cars.
02-26-2004, 10:35 PM
#27
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I bought my 03 TL type S w/ NAVI instead of a G35 Sedan w/ Navi for 2 reasons.
1. Local Dealership, the closest Infinity dealer was 35 miles away, compared to 11 for Acura
2. Fuel Economy, the G35 got about 10% worse MPG on the highway.
1. Local Dealership, the closest Infinity dealer was 35 miles away, compared to 11 for Acura
2. Fuel Economy, the G35 got about 10% worse MPG on the highway.
02-27-2004, 01:41 AM
#28
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I think I have to agrreee with your take on todays luxury car owners. I was referring to past history. They don't teach that stuff in the schools any more, but in the depression not even the rich bought or drive expensive cars as it was viewed as too arrogent. Now days we view poor persons as trash and the attitude that people get what they deserve is generally held. So wealthy persons generally have no shame in whatever wasteful activities they might engage in.
And with gas heading to $3.00/gal. I just paid $2.35 for 91 octane today up from yesterday .06. I also liked the idea of reasonable fuel efficiency of the TL. Sometime this summer I bet we might see some price reductions, in the SUV market.
It is too bad the SUV thing got so out of hand. If there is any relation between price and demand fuel prices would likely be at all time lows if every vehicle got 23mpg.
And with gas heading to $3.00/gal. I just paid $2.35 for 91 octane today up from yesterday .06. I also liked the idea of reasonable fuel efficiency of the TL. Sometime this summer I bet we might see some price reductions, in the SUV market.
It is too bad the SUV thing got so out of hand. If there is any relation between price and demand fuel prices would likely be at all time lows if every vehicle got 23mpg.
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