I brought my 02 TL-S to the dyno today and here are the results. The guys printer was broke but he is going to e-mail me the sheet. So for now...

HP TQ
237.5 197.8
234.7 197.7
236.6 198.0

My AFR was a little rich about 12 so I am gonna be looking into the VAFC. Apexi just came out with a new one called the Neo and I was looking at that. It's real nice and has a great display. I probably go with that one.

 

nice

 

nniiiicccceeee

 

nice solid back to back runs!

 

not bad #'s.

were these corrected or uncorrected. usually one is higher than the other.
what do stock TL S put out on this dyno?

as for ur AFR, 12 is not considered rich, altho im not sure about our cars, but 10 is considered rich and AFR levels should be between 11-12. this is off the top of my head. i cant remember the exact figures.

 

man bring that beast back to houston!

 

ya, the a/f ratio if its between 12-13 you are right on target, much higher and your getting lean, lower and your running more rich.

 

solid numbers for those mods.

 

Thanks for the comments guys. And as for the AFR, you don't recommend changing it? The guy running the dyno said that it seemed I was running a little rich between 11 and 12. He said bump it up to maybe 13 and it would be a little better. What are your opinions on that. You guys know the car better than he does. I will post the dyno sheet as soon as I get it e-mailed and you can give me your opinions from there. Thanks again for the info.

 

well i mean you can lean it out just a tad more, but honestly, your gonna pay what $300 - $500 for a custom retune that on what numbers you posted looks solid to me. Now if you had numbers and an a/f ratio like the other guy did that was border line to lean than thats when i said get a custom tune. But if your right on 12, i'd leave it be. what are your mods? if you don't have headers and thats in the plans, i'd do along with other mods while checking you a/f ratio and you may lean it out just enough to not need to touch it.

again, this is my dyno sheet on the roush, with CAI, full exhaust etc. when i put the smaller pulley on, i will double check the a/f again:




notice how it drops flat across the pull on WOT, thats how it should be, not jumpy like a heart beat

 

^^^yeah, that's more or less what my AFR looked like except it dipped down to almost 11 at about 5200 RPMs and came back up at about 5800. So I guess there really is now need to go with the VAFC other than if I wanna adjust where vtec kicks in but the dyno guy said it would probably only give me a couple hp up top but maybe 15 hp midrange...does anyone agree with that? I don't wanna spend the $400 on the VAFC and then have to pay to tune it for such minimal gains. And I already have the headers...these are my mods though.

 

lets see your post on your dyno pull, if its pretty flat and you have that one dip, eh, you prob don't have to worry about it. but if he is saying he can give you more midrange, well that'll help you on the overall acceleration since your only at redline for a few sec. just think about it, you floor it, engine spools up to 4k, vtec is kicking in whenever it does, you redline at whatever our redline is, like 6800rpm i think on the type s, well throughout that 2800rpms you have more hp to pull you vs just at the top. lets see your dyno pull first and then we can better evaluate. but also, alot of these dyno guys always say, "oh, i can get you X amount of HP", 8 out of 10 times its less than 1/5 of what they claim

 

Why would you want to change when you VTEC kicks in? The engineers at Honda made it kick in at 4500rpms(I think that is where it is on the Type S, I wouldn't know I don't have one) on the Type S because that is its optimal position. Wouldn't changing it adversely affect the performace of the car?

 

It's at 4800 on the Type-S, by the way.


Nice numbers. What kind of a dyno was it?

 

with stock cams i would leave vtec xover at where it is plus u need to get tuned including timing, AFR's, and vtec xover to get the best point to make the most power.
i would say if ur happy with results stay w/ it.
if u get the VAFC, if its no PnP, u will have to cut ur ECU harness then have it tuned on the dyno. not all tuners know how to tune the VAFC.
i think with ur AFR at 12 ur prolly sitting just right w/ ur mods. 12 is not rich but more stoic, but rich is safer than being lean.

i would leave as is w/o VAFC. of course it only curves fuel up or down and can set ur vtec xover. you should see if AEm EMS is avail for ur car.

 

I checked on the AEM EMS and it's not available. The only thing I could find was for the 4 cyl Accord with MT. After seeing all these relpies, I think I am going to take everyones advice and keep it the way it is. I am pretty sure that I could install the VAFC if I was able to do my Nav install but as for tuning... There's no real need for it. The guy there also suggested I adjust my valves, so I am doing my research on that as well. I remember there being a thread about this recently, I'll have to check that out again. Thanks for the advice guys.

 

adjust your valves??? for what, my tl-s has 122k, no valve adjustment needed. my zx-10r with 13k miles on it that redlines to 13k and i usually keep it above 9k in the twisties didn't need a valve adjustment when last checked, and thats recommended every 15k miles. these cars today are so well built, if you leave it stock, put gas in it, change the oil and do reg maintenance, you don't need to do anything else. waste of time in my opinon, service lady told me the same thing, i told her she is smokin crack adjusting my valves, this isn't a IRL engine and your certainly not holding it at redline for hours on end.

 

Nice numbers bro

 

AEM does have a universal unit but not sure why you would want to go to a standalone ecu with just boltons.

 

There is nothing wromg with changing the vtec point, the tuner should know depending on your power band and where you make most of your power at. Post the dyno graph when u geta chance.

 

hey guys, i need to ask you all a question here, with an AEM and megans i was dyno'ing 214whp and 210wtq, and the owner told me his dyno reads a tad low to begin with. now i'm 99% sure those numbers were corrected so i'm beginning to wonder why snowman's torque is so low with all those mods.

any ideas or are my number just out of whack?

Rick, bestow some knowledge on me!!! (nice to see you again).

SSTS

 

SSTS, not all dyno's and cars are the same.

do u have an exhaust? sometimes w/ less back pressure u will have lower torque.

also i still would like to see snowman's dyno graph w/ AFR graph too.

 

no, no exhaust, just headers here. i agree with what you're saying, but he's only making around stock torque with all those mods. just doesn't seem right.....

maybe the dyno he was on is off a tad. i would like to see the dyno graph too since peak numbers can be deceiving. i only gained about 3ft-lbs of tq at peak from my headers, but nearly 20ft-lbs towards redline. maybe his gains are greater.

SSTS

 

Well, in my opinion, there is something wrong with changing the VTEC engagement point with just bolt-on's. VTEC works based on airflow capacity and valve timing. With just bolt-on's, neither changes. Like stick said, if you're on stock cams, you don't need to change the VTEC engagement point.

I have just about every bolt-on you can get for a TL-S, minus the supercharger, and dyno results proved that the stock engagement point was the optimum setting. Honda engineers know better than us. Foolishly, I did try other engagement points using the V-AFC II, and it only disrupted the powerband. So bottom line, unless you change the valve timing (and it is called Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control), you will only disrupt the airflow and the powerband by changing the VTEC engagement point.

On my car, I only lowered it by 300 RPM, to have it kick in at 4500 RPM. Yet it still produced a noticeable disruption on the dyno graph.

 

Here is my dyno sheet...unfortunately the guy said that the AFR graph didn't save. That was the whole reason I wanted a dyno done, so I am gonna go back and dyno it again and I will discuss a price with the owner. Here is the graph and its a DynoJet.

 

not bad snowman but ask your tuner why the CF (correction factor) is SAE 3. ask for an Un corrected SAE graph and I think ur #'s will be different.
only way to tell if your making good power is take it to the 1/4 mile track.

sometimes dyno #'s can be bloated just to get a favorable response from the customer.
not saying this is what happens but see if he will provide an uncorrected dyno sheet for u.

SSTS, you should overlay ur dyno graph over snowmans just to see the difference.
peak #'s dont mean anything, its the power under the curve is what u want to be fat.

 

^^^^Stick brings up good points

It is hard to believe that snowman has less torque than SatinSilverTypS with Comptech Catback Exhaust, UR Ultra SS Pulleys, and a Grounding Kit - BUT- 20more hp? I know the exhuast can cause you to lose some torque but 10+ ftlbs is a lot, and you would think his pulley would more than compensate for the torque losee from the exhaust. 20 more hp is a lot from just exhuast, a pulley, and a grounding kit, calling the megan headers and AEM CAI's gains(SatinSilverTypS) equal to the CT headers and Injen intake(snowman)

 

I think I am gonna try another dyno just to compare results. It won't be for a couple weeks until I have some free time to bring it down. I also want the print out of the AFR graph so I can get everyones opinion on that. I would also like to know why my torque #'s are so low if SSTS was able to put down 210 ft lbs for torque and I didn't even break 200. I am not sure what the SAE corrected stuff is but when I go to the dyno again and I am gonna try and learn as much as possible.

 

good for u. where did u get dyno'd at in va bch? abascus racing?

i used to live there for 6 yrs from 1995-2001. i miss it.

 

Actually that is the place that I am going to next. I went to Millenium Auto Sports in Norfolk this time. Do you know the guys at Abacus? They seemed pretty cool when I went there.

 

when i was there millenium was just starting out.
i know of abascus b/c i used to live near there before i moved near the ocean front.
i have a friend that dyno's his almost 700 hp civic there at abascus tho. i dont personally know them either.