2002TLSNavi

I'm planning on changing my oil this weekend (at about 5k miles) I'm probably going to put in Mobil 1 5w20 even though I've heard rumors around here that they have gone to crap. But I don't really feel like special ordering AMS or Redline. (nor do I really want to pay the extra $)

I live in NJ, and do mostly highway driving (light to medium traffic, usually not stop and go) 30 miles each way to work. I figure I'm somewhere between the severe and normal driving conditions so I think I'm going to split the difference between the service intervals and do it every 5k. If anyone has any strong feelings to the contrary (either on interval or oil brand), I'm open to suggestions.

But back to my original question: The crush washer on the oil pan drain plug. Does anyone know what size it is. I really don't feel like pulling it off and having to go running around like crazy looking for one. I'd like to have everything on hand before I start the job. And I'm also asuming by crush washer they are refering to one of those split lock washer type things...

Thanks,
Dave

pianoman41

It actually looks like a normal washer, not like the crush type on my Maxima. It's pretty good-sized. I don't have the exact size handy but I bought a bunch of them from the Acura dealer for like $.50 each. I believe you can get them at Honda dealers as well (probably cheaper) because they have the same size plug in the V6 Accords.

2002TLSNavi

Thanks, I swung by a honda dealer on my way to lunch (actually right next door to where I was going for food). I picked up 20 of 'em for $0.20 each.

For the record (not that this is all that usefull since search is disabled, but they are 14mm.

Thanks again
Dave

roadman

You were able to find Mobil 1 in 5w-20 weight ?

2002TLSNavi

I was going to swing by walmart tonight and try to pick it up. (I heard they had 5qt for $17.88) Is 5w20 hard to come by?

eCo

As far as I know, it's not currently a Mobil product. I ended up going with Amsoil.

eCo

bioyuki

Mobil 1 is not available in 5W-20...it does come in 5W-30 though

2002TLSNavi

Hmmm, that explains why I couldn't find any tonight :-)

I was just looking at the AMSOIL myself. I was looking at the XL-7500 5w-20. Is that what you went with? I noticed alot of people on the board are using 5w-30, but the owners manual says only to use it if 5w-20 isn't available, but to switch back at the next oil change.

Also do you know off the top of your head which filter is for our cars? (mine is '02 TLS) And did you use an amsoil filter or something else?

Thanks,
Dave

fla-tls

Hey Dave, try our ongoing thread...
Link

eCo

I used a Mobil 1 filter: M1-104. It was rated the highest at some site I can't recollect. Forget Framm.

Yeah, a lot have posted they're using 5w-30, but I figure that tooling has gotten so good that the tolerances in this engine must be really tight. I'd run 5w-20 if at all possible. That'll give the best gas mileage as well.

Our '01 Odyssey calls for the same oil and filter. Makes the oil change job a tad less complicated.

Good luck
eCo

Southbound

I'm still amazed to believe that the tolerances are so tight that 5-W-30 would be so thick as to cause engine damage. That is still lightweight oil... 5-W-30 in the summer CAN'T be as hard on an engine as 5-W-20 is in the winter in Minnesota... I'm still convinced that they are specifying 5-W-20 for EPA measures instead of true engine protection measures.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I certainly can't fault anyone for following the owners manual. But when I hear people speak as if they are worried that Mobil 1 synthetic isn't good enough for the engine and they have to order some hard to get oil in order to feel comfortable... that is just ludicrous. If this was a Funny car with 2,600HP instead of 260HP, and it was being exclusively used for the dragstrip being redlined every time that it was started, then maybe I could see the point. I'm not about to put K-mart generic oil in my car either, but ANY name brand synthetic oil has to be good enough for the life of this car. I myself prefer Castrol Syntec.

If Acura has their tolerances down to such precision, then why in the hell does the tranny devour itself in only a few thousand miles of granny driving?????

I'm just not that worried about which brand of oil is used for a passenger car, especially if you change it regularly. That to me is more important. Again, I also believe that they are specifying the lengthy duration between oil changes for primarily EPA reasons as well. I do ,however, believe that synthetic oil is better than regular oil. I can feel the difference in the grit when I rub the used oil between my fingers. Therefore, I myself, will be changing my oil every 3,000 miles. If it slides to 5,000 miles due to convenience issues, then the synthetic should still be doing its job. I feel it gives me a bit of a cushion on oil changes. As far as the money, It's funny... I can't believe people who pay $33K for a car and then put $$$$ thousands into mods yet are too cheap to buy synthetic oil. I would be more concerned about oil change intervals as opposed to whether I was using Mobil 1, Or Castrol, Or Valvoline, Or Pennzoil, Or Havoline, Or Redline, Or Amsoil, or whatever... This is one case where going against what the manual suggests can't possible hurt the engine. EPA issues, well that's another matter. If you're an eco freak, then you should have bought a PRISIS instead...

Just my $.02 worth.

eCo

Who said anything about engine damage?? I was thinking in terms of performance.

In light of the paucity of hard data pertaining to the lubricity of 5w30 vs. 5w20, it's all pure speculation anyway.

I've ordered an oil sampling kit from Blackstone Labs . If other people are interested, let's get a database going (like the one at maxima.org) and see which oils hold up the best. We can also follow engine wear with metal content in the samples as well.

Interested?

eCo

RAdams

I have the 1999-2001 TL HELM service manual along with the 2002 supplement and the engine tolerances (ring gaps, piston-to-wall clearance, main/rod journal clearances) haven't changed from year to year, yet the oil specification has.

Now I'm not sure this point is what we're debating, but I tend to agree with SouthBound in that 5W-20 was specified for fuel efficiency purposes only, though 30wt isn't exactly Motor Honey so I don't know what gains (if any) would be seen using 20 versus 30. The EPA mileage ratings haven't changed since the oil spec changed, either.

Also, I'd be all for sharing oil data so we'd have some hard figures.

roadman

As for the oil filter, Mobil 1 was rated the best by a number of sources, but they are made by (and identical to) Bosche which I found at Autozone for about $6.

Virtually all Honda V6 engines use the same part number oil filter, it is highly unlikely you will not be able to find one.

eCo

That's good to know. I guess the change was for EPA. Still, that doesn't contradict the idea that 5w20 may be better for performance or wear.

I won't have any data on my TL-S until another 3 or 4K miles. When we get some data rolling in, perhaps we can put it in a new topic and make it a sticky? My Odyssey is up for a change tho, and can provide those numbers in a coupla weeks. It's got Mobil 1 in it right now.

eCo

eCo

For your oil filter viewing pleasure: Oil filter comparison

A summary:
The Mobil 1 and K&N share the same SPFE rating of 98% but the Mobil 1 has a better multiple pass rating, even though the medium looks the same and the K&N has more of it. Both are well made and should perform very well. One can't go wrong with either the Mobil 1 or the K&N, either is great choice, so buy based on availability and price. I would expect them to be very close in performance, as they are so close in design and construction.

If the AC Delco UltraGuard works as advertised, it just pulled ahead of its Champ Lab siblings in performance. What will it cost? I am guessing it may also cost about $10 since that seems to be all the market will tolerate for high performance oil filters.

For those on a budget the Castrol MaxPro gives a good bang for the buck.

And an update: I contacted the manufacturer of K&N, Mobil 1, and AC UltraGuard oil filters.
They are all made in the same factory. As of December 2001 AC UltraGuard
oil filter are officially no longer being made. They don't currently have
plans to sell the same technology under another label. It was an expensive
filter to make and sold at the same price point as the K&N and Mobil 1 so it
was not a lucrative filter to sell or manufacture.
Damn, if you find old stock, grab 'em. Try Auto Zone.
I am told the semi synthetic media in Mobil 1 is not identical to the K&N
media. The K&N has more media but filters down to 15-18 micron. The Mobil 1,
looks the same but filters down to 10 micron. The UltraGuard media filtered
down to 8 micron was 100% synthetic and filter at high flow rates.
One new premium filter to consider is the Bosch Premium, which is in the
same class as the Mobil 1 and K&N. I didn't know that but it is also a good filter.
I don't know why AC pulled out of the premium oil filter market. I
understand it was not as profitable as selling $40,000 pickups but I have a
theory that AC is not a name long associated with quality oil filters. I
would avoid any AC oil filter if I didn't know about the UltraGuard line.
Their feeling may be it is too small a niche market, my feeling is it
suffered from being associated with the AC reputation.
Tim Wright


eCo

2002TLSNavi

I contacted AMSOIL to see what the recomended:

ME:
AMSOIL:

Road Rage

The Honda washer is a crush washer. It also needs to be installed with the proper side facing the pan.

Mobil 1 has hardly gone to crap.
A 0w30 will have more VI improver than a 5w, so its high rev shear stability will be at greater risk. I do not see the necessity of a 0 execept in the arctic, for which the 0 was orginally developed by Chevron in its Delvac line.

Oil filter peformance is not just filtering efficiency - such issues as the bypass valve spec, the flow capacity and rate, and its mechanical construction details are also important. These factors are usually well balanced in the OEM product - with aftermarket, it is a dice game. Aren't Amsoil filters Hastings, or have they changed? Hastings is not known for high flow rates.

2002TLSNavi

Thanks for the heads up. This I didn't know. Which side needs to face the pan?


I think I'm going to wind up running Mobil 1. Either 0w-30 or 5w-30 which ever I run across first. I don't really feel like paying a fortune for oil given that I'm going to be changing at fairly regular intervals. I don't need to pay amsoil $8/qt for oil that will last 35k miles when I'm gonna dump it at the recycling center after 5k.

Hmmm, unless I drain it from the TLS and use it in my old Toyota (how's that for recycling).... j/k

A friend of mine checked his engine temp with an obd tool (http://www.obdtool.com) in his A4, and found that things were running about 15 degrees cooler w/ mobil 1 vs conventional oil.

So given that, I think it's good enough. I'm starting to get the feeling that despite the heated debates, theres not a huge difference between synthetics. Hell, acura doesn't even suggest it. The owners manual has more of a run it if you want, but change it often, attitude.

As for the filters, neither pepboys or walmart had anything great. Just the generic sh1t... Best I could find was the FRAM X2. So I don't know what I'm going to do there. I was looking around for the Mobil 1 filter.

Beiruty

Walmart and Kmart has the mobil 1 filters

autophile1

Anyone willing to buy these and send them over to us Canucks? I can't seem to find a place to buy these!

Bryan

Road Rage

As I recall, if you look at the washer from the side, it looks rougher in one half - that side goes against the pan. It really isn't critical, as it is there not so much for sealing as to make sure you do not overtorque the bolt and strip the aluminum pan. That would be baaadddd.

I would not recommend 0w30 unless you live in the arctic. 0 requires more Viscosity improver to get that range, which makes the oil more susceptible to high rpm shearing. I would stick to 5w30.

I used to use Red Line in all my engines, but I have rethought it. Dirt is a greater enemy, and extended drains require testing to see how good the oil remains. Otherwise it is just pisasing away money if you change at 3000 miles or so.

I plan to use Pennzoil 5w30 and one quart of Redline to get the benfits of esters at startup and extreme conditions.

BTW, do not accept the "oil lowered the engine temp by 15 degrees". Engine temps are determined by the thermostat, and unless you friend had a way to measure the actual cylinder temps, the 15 degrees is suspect. Even if he did, combustion chamber temps are so high that 15 degrees is just normal variability from moment to moment. I am not saying he is lying, just either did not have an apples to apples controlled test apparatus.

2002TLSNavi

OK, after much stressing over which oil to use, I finally just bought Mobil1 5w-30 for the TL and 10w-30 for my old corolla. I couldn't find too much in the way of brand name filters, so I went with the FRAM X2 for both cars (they claim they are good for 7k miles and I plan to change at 5k anyway). I kinda like that rubber no slip grip that they have on them. Makes tightening them up by hand a breeze. I also like that they come in a sealed pop top can, so nothing gets into them before you are ready to install.

And acrua did a much better job of locating the oil filter than toyota. On the corolla the filter is about a foot up into the engine compartment from the bottom, right next to the pipe coming down from the exhaust manifold.... thanks, if you turn a bit too far trying to loosen the filter up, you get your bare wrist right on the hot pipe....

This is the first time I changed my own oil since I was back in high school (too busy during my college years to do it myself). Man do I miss throwing the car up on the lift in the auto shop, rolling the 55gal drum w/ huge funnel underneath and just pulling the drain plug. Used to take me all of 5 min to do it. No mess, I actually changed my oil once in a shirt and tie on senior picture day. :-)

Seotaji

i will never buy any aftermarket filter made of paper (i.e. endcaps).

not cool.

fram EEEEVIL.

i had two collapse and block flow, but never in the TL.

interesting eh?