tm86it

The 2000 TL manual says Premium fuel required. I understand that the engine has a sophisticated knock sensor that will reduce the timing or something and reduce performance and gas mileage, making the attempt to save money by putting in mid-grade or regular self defeating.

THE QUESTION: what has everyone actually experienced? Anyone been consistently putting in 89 or lower octane fuel for an extended period of time? Results? PRoblems?

Thanks much!
Tim

p.s. Premium in SoCal tonight at Mobil by my house is $2.37!!!

alfielum

Don't know what to tell u, because I've been too worried about messing up the engine if I put anything lower than 93. I was using HESS 93 for a good while and for some reason I felt that the car performance (in terms of acceleration response) was not what I was used to with Sunoco Ultra 94. So, needless to say, I'm back to using 94 (which is about $1.99 per gallon in Brooklyn, NY).

BlackShadow

I have always used premium since I bought the car over 4 years ago.

Darkshear

iTrader: (1)

i always use hess 93... we dont have sunoco here, otherwise i would be using that

$1.84 a gallon right now for 93.

alfielum

Darkshear... What are your thoughts on Hess 93? Have you noticed any difference if you use another brand that's rated 93?

randomwalk101

I don' t have Type S, but just regular TL. Lately I've been pumping 87 octane gas and she's doing fine (last 6 months). I just don't floor it like crazy with 87 gas.

lovemyTL

This is what I calculated...

Lower gas mileage with lower octane (87)
Higher gas mileage with higher octane (93)
(Both using Costco gas)

The cost DIFFERENCE might end up being very minimal. I think in the $.50 range. Then again, it may differ based on the different prices of the gas. Basically, when you are at the pump and thinking which one do I get because of the price - remember that you will get better mileage with the higher octane.

Edub-TL

You can use the lower grade if you want, the TL's computer will sense the misfire, and retard the timing to try and compensate for it. Side effects are most likely fuel efficientcy and possibly some pinging noises..

Here in California, We can only get 91 octane as the highest I have noticed a slight decrease in the miles I'm able to get from a full tank vs when 93 was available.. as for the brands of gas, most are the same, its just some brands put additives in their gas and that is why there are cost differences..

2ONPAR5

I know what the manual says about premium fuel... preventing knocking, timing, blah, blah, blah... HOWEVER...

Why doesn't the Accord V6 (240 hp) require premium fuel? Why does the Accord only have a 3 year/36K warranty and the Acura has a 4 year/50K?

The reason is that Acura ran the stats. If they tell Acura owners to use only premium, they would reduce their warranty claims and make the extra year of coverage cost effective. It is true that premium burns cleaner, reduces knocks, etc., but basically you are subsidizing their warranty program by spending more for gas.

I'd bet if they required all Hondas to use premium, they could justify going to a four year warranty on them as well.

johnnyb_s

That arguement might be true, except for this little twist. Why does Honda give a 7 year, 100K mi. warranty on it's certified used vehicles? Gas has nothing to do with a warranty at all.

2ONPAR5

Because the mark-up on used vehicles is huge... at least 3 times the profit in used versus new. Also the true warranty on a used Honda is only about 40K miles since they typically already have 60K when traded. Basically they are selling you an extended warranty from the huge mark-up.

ShaguraTL

The new Accord has a newer computer that has the capability to retard the timing enough to compensate for using 87 octane. The TL/CL can retard the timing a good bit but not reliabily. Plus if you do more research on the new Accord, you'll find they did many new things to it to reduce heat, improve efficiency, etc. These things are new to the Accord and have not yet been done to the TL/CL engine. At any rate, please do a search before posting threads. I know this topic has been covered at least 20 times in the past year. If you can afford, the car, you can afford the gas. You knew it took premium when you bought it.

kcroberge

I have used both 87 and 93 octane in my TL-S as well as other cars that I have owned (94 Volvo 850 wagon, 1990 Integra GS, 1985 Honda Civic, 1984 Honda Accord). In every vehicle I have gotten 2-3 mpg more with the 93 octane than with the 89. If you do the math over a tank of gas you'll find that the cost of gas is about the same, within a dollar. You'll get more power from the 93 octane and depending on where you buy better additives that will keep your engine cleaner.

In my opinion I'm better off with the 93 octane.

shimbo519

I've used 87 octane on and off for about a year now.....nothing noticeable.....knock on wood...

2ONPAR5

I don't think the issue is buying the gas. By the time I add the beer and chips it's going to be over $25 regardless of octane rating.

I do think Acura factored in premium gas in their business model concerning the warranty. If the Honda Accord engine is more advanced than ours, why don't they offer a better warranty?

malibu1

never used anything but 87 octane, runs fine. Every once in awhile I put in the good stuff.

TouringLxry

The 2.5 motors (TL models at least) have high compression, 9.6:1, so if you don't use high octane you get more carbon deposits. At least that's the way I see it.

Aki's TL

I have been using 87 since July 99. Because of the recent discussions - I pumped in a full tank of 91 for the first time tonight ($2.29). Its the highest they had (no 93)
It might be my imagination but the car seems to accelerate a little smoother............

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

You may not have a problem but when your car throws a check engine light for a multiple misfire and that annoying yellow light is glowing in your face you may have wished you put @ LEAST plus in if not super.

macfarlj

My friend was an engineer for GM for years. He states, as others have, that Octane makes no difference to the car. It can minimize knocking if you experience it, but other than that it is of not additional value. So pump whatever makes you feel good. I burn the cheap stuff and see little to no difference in the performance or sound from the car.

pianoman41

High compression engines such as the Type-S models (10.5:1) are more prone to premature detonation (knock). If I had a regular TL I might be tempted to run 87 octane--gas prices being what they are--knowing that the computer will retard the timing to compensate. But with the Type-S I'm going to stick with 91+.

For you Type-S owners, think about this: What was one of the main reasons you choose to pay the extra $$$ for a Type S model over a base TL? Most likely it was because of the additional horsepower, right? Well, when you run lower than 91 octane in TL-S, the computer retards the timing and ultimately reduces the horsepower output. Seems kinda self-defeating....

Gilgamesh

You know, last night at IHOP a friend and I got into this one...he was saying that at this high altitude here, knock is not a problem, and especially since my car has a new engine. That was one tough explanation, telling him that it does not matter how new the car is, what the altitude is, or that his 95 Integra SE has not knocked yet after 80k on the cheap stuff.

johnnyb_s

When I bought my TL (bought used from a Honda dealer), there were several 1-2 year old certified Accords on the lot with around 20K miles on them, for about KBB value. If I didn't see my TL on the lot that day, I'd be in an Accord.

Pauli

This topic is starting to remind me of my 1987 Integra that I kept for 9 years and 184,000 miles before getting rid of it. For the first year or so of ownership, I used the cheap 87 octane fuel with no knocking or performance problems. I then decided to try out premium (I think it was 92 octane in CA those days) and did not notice any performance difference. Moreover, it had trouble starting -- I often had to try three times to turn over the engine. I thought something was wrong with the car, but I was suspicious of the premium fuel, so I decided to go back to 87 octane. I never had that starting problem again...

2ONPAR5

Sounds like a good deal. The real question is how much did they give/shaft the previous owner. They may have sold a KBB and still made a killing.

Many of these cars are probably coming off leases which brings up another question... do people leasing take better or worse car of their car than those buying?

I think if I were leasing, I'd be inclined to dog it alittle more.

VTEC Animal

Well, personally I tried this and noticed no difference between the 91 and the 87, but I didn't push my TL too hard. The dealership service said 87 was ok but it could set off the check engine light if the car was driven in the mountains. I guess the nock sensor would put a code in the computer that the octane was too low. They said it wouldn't hurt the engine and that the nock sensor would retard timing and so in the mountains the performance could diminish a little. Personally I did take it into the mountains and never noticed anything. I think if you have a TL-P you'd be ok, but I wouldn't try it on a TL-S. Also, I never noticed a deminished gas mileage when running 87. For academic purposes I live about 200 ft above sea level and I strickly buy gas from Costco and Unocal 76 (but only buy from Unocal 76 when out of town).

TLover8888

thats exactly what i have read about octane. all octane does is reduce the knocking in your engine...nothing else.

ChucksCL-S

I remember years ago some car mag did a test between two identical pick-ups both loaded to the gills, like a full load of stone or something. One truck had 87 in it, the other 93. They raced them down the quarter mile over and over- dead tie every time. Factory called for 87 to be used. So this test proved as others have that if it calls for 87 that higher octanes don't add power. HOWEVER if 91 or 93 is called for (higher compression) then the outcome of the race I suspect would have been a slight win for the truck that called for using the 91 or 93 or whatever. The additives in the higher octanes prevent knock or pre ignition as sometimes the metal in the combustion chamber is hot enough to ignite the fuel before the spark plug does so.

johnnyb_s

It was a very good deal. True, they probably did shaft the previous owner, but that's their problem for not knowing/understanding how finances/negotiations work in general.

I agree with you on off-lease cars, which can be checked with a quick carfax report.