bruistopher

i will do! The throttle response is quick. It's strange after cleaning the intake manifold it felt like I had better response and it was quick. I mean even in park I step on the gas or even in neutral it doesn't hesitate. I mean it hits the 5,000 rpm in neutral and will not like me go higher lol

Also when I took off the EGR valve it didn't have a gasket connected to it. Is it suppose to have one, when you remove it? Because mines didn't. All i saw was crud which you see in the pics in my earlier post when I did the project.

bruistopher

Basically fries, the car operates like it should. It shifts perfectly, it responds and starts perfectly all the electronics work perfectly. It's a awesome car and it shows no signs of slowing down.

But that EGR is really taking a beating on me and the acura dude!

01tl4tl

there is an electrical test you can run on the O2 sensors to see if they are working right- its reasonable for one or both to need replacement by now
but I am with fries on this one- the manifold top gasket can easily be put on upside down and look like its right
except its covering a port thats critical

Best way to install the gasket is lay it on the top cover--all the holes must be lined up there, then flip assembly over and install
I use gasket-cinch so nothing moves

seafoam- a can in the oil will clean the rings and oil passages really well
A can in the intake- well, depending on how warm the engine was and which directions you followed- and what sort of after drive, it could have loaded up the O2 sensors-- which normally will throw a CEL and self clear in a few days of driving

Noobs to seafoam should repeat vac and gas methods after 1000-2000 miles/1month then good for a year
It does churn up crud that keeps cleaning after its immediate effects
2nd time gets the rest and may clear problems

I doubt its the egr valve- but the 99 with only 1 port must be cleaned perfect on the manifold..you could shoot seafoam in the port with the valve off,,, but Ive never seen anyone pull the egr valve~ till now that is

bruistopher

@01tl4tl

I will try the gasket solution when I take the intake off again.

Also for a heads up, I never took the throttle body off the plenum. I left it on there intact. Not sure if that harmed anything or not but I saw that it was no use to taking if off if I wasn't going to add thermoblock gasket to it.

The next time I take the plenum off will probably be on a nicer, warmer day here in Delaware. Because these days recently are pretty rough here and personally I think with the way it freezes up it could be affecting the way the engine heats up and then freezes over night and the crud builds and the work I did was pretty much pointless.

So I will work on it some other time but in the meantime, the check engine light will shoot up and I think with the engine seeing the flow of exhaust is not going to each cylinder correctly it will run rich or lean I think which will make my gas mileage suffer.

oh boy

bruistopher

Also 01tl4tl when I removed the EGR valve it didn't come up with a gasket what so ever. Is that a bad thing?

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

actually you do, it was stuck to the bottom of the egr valve, look at the pictures


99's does not have that top plate like the newer ones do, look at previous pictures (i thought the same thing)

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

and you may have screwed up that gasket and are causing a leak there, not noticing it was there

bruistopher

But when i took it off there wasn't a option to take the gasket apart from the egr valve.

I think I should order a egr valve gasket. Maybe that's the culprit and its letting out the exhaust gases. I assumed since I torque the bolts down with the right specs that no gases were escaping. I just went over to acuraoemparts.com and they are selling the gasket for $7.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

just saying that there is a gasket there, you can see the lip of it around the port

and might not hurt to try a new gasket, be cheaper then a new valve

01tl4tl

99 are different and I dont wear my glasses...
doh- a mistake already and this early in the year!

bruistopher

Okay well this morning I turned the car on, CEL was present. I put the scan tool in and it has to codes P0401 and P0401 pd (pending). That last code means that the computer is monitoring the EGR system flow and its still insufficient.

So I just jumped to the conclusion that the exhaust is not flowing like it should. Its not hitting all the cylinders, which means the EGR passage is still clogged.

So I'm going to go purchase a brass bristle brush or wire brush and 2 more cans of throttle body cleaner and clean that port and the EGR valve as much as I can and see what happens.

It has to do with the EGR because my ECU isn't throwing anymore codes and my car doesn't have any symptoms.

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friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

and coat hanger, so you can get all the way through,

and codes are not a tell all of what the problem is, they just point you in a direction of where to start looking for the problem

also that o2 may be bad/contaminated, even with out a code, cause if garbage goes into the ecu, garbage comes out (since it relies on that sensor so much to check to make sure the egr flow is sufficient, with the ecu not seeing the change it wants in the exhaust when the egr is engaged)

bruistopher

@fries

Is that the o2 sensor before or after the cat?

And how are do you test the sensor to see if its working properly?

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friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

the one before it (not the one screwed into it, that's the rear and is to make sure the cat is working)

you can ohm it out and stuff, but that won't really tell you if it is still too slow to respond to changes, just if it is bad or not

best way would be with an osiliscope (sp?) to check it, but a graphing scan tool can work too, not as good, but still works fairly well

01tl4tl

another can of seafoam properly applied thru the manifold main vac port and driven out afterwards should clean any residue on the O2 sensors-

It cannot hurt the sensors so dont sweat that

Use of seafoam in the oil will get some cleaning effect to the egr crud too, but not remove heavy buildup. read can and website for details

When cleaning egr port you must use a push rod of some type to get thru the hole- you can clean the top of it nice and still be partial or total plugged
Toothbrushes and carb cleaner dont do a full job

bruistopher

Okay fries I know I could test the o2 sensor to see if its working. One thing is wouldn't the ecu put out a code saying its running rich?

I know of two things that can make gas mileage horrible:

-tune-up (air filter, spark plugs)
-o2 sensor (ecu can make engine run rich)

Gas is pretty unstable. Most times its good but sometimes it will drop down 2 notches on the gas gauge after I do a highway spin. I really think it could be the spark plugs in replacement considering I haven't replace them yet.

When I clean the EGR port this time will use a coat hanger and stick it as far down as possible to clear the carbon build and use throttle body cleaner.

The egr port on the plenum is fine. Its clear but I will spray some in there while I'm at it. And the when I put everything back together. I will torque down the plenum with the correct torque specs.

I will then pull the ecu back-up fuse number #13 and let sit for a minute and put it back in and start the car.

The last time I started the engine and did the pull fuse and drove I plugged my scan tool in and the check engine light wasn't on but I dod have a code that was pending and being monitored by the ecu and it was the P0401. So that was last time.

Today will be new and I will seafoam and clean the plenum and egr port and egr valve and hopefully this time have a egr that flows fine!

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01tl4tl

97kmiles- those plugs are way past ready for change! I know the book says 105 and I know many ziners have replaced them at 60-70 and found improved running

mileage up and down--Im thinking O2 sensor--after a plug inspection/change

bruistopher

Well I will change those. I wonder if I should do them today while I'm doing the EGR cleaning again.

I know we need NGK Iridium IX and they are $7 a plug at Autozone. I know I will need anti-seize. I know to take care of the coil packs with care when uninstalling and lay them somewhere gently.

Is there anything else I need that can help me with the plugs?

bruistopher

I went over to acuraoemparts.com and looked for oxygen sensor and came to these options:

36531-P8E-A01 SENSOR, OXYGEN 1999 TL $142.07
36532-P8C-A02 SENSOR, RR. OXYGEN 1999 TL $112.75
36532-P8C-L21 SENSOR, RR. OXYGEN 1999 TL $115.76
36533-P8E-A01 STAY, OXYGEN SENSOR 1999 TL $7.09
36536-PAA-A00 STAY B, OXYGEN SENSOR 1999 TL $1.05
6537-PAA-A00 STAY C, OXYGEN SENSOR 1999 TL $2.20

Which one of those is the right oxygen sensor? Because I know we have 2 oxygen sensors. 1 is before the cat and one after the cat. I'm sure the 1 before the cat is about to go. That's what fries told me...

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

yeah most of the time the plugs are completely wasted by that time, let alone not liking to come out easily, from being partially siezed in there too, normally i would recommend 90K for them or so,
and yes his are overdue, so they need to be done

can of silicone spray, spraying them on the boots makes the coils slid in easier, but not neccesary though

also the strut bar does not have to come off, if you got a swival (sp?) on the extension, just one less thing to be removed

36531-P8E-A01, the stays will come with the new o2 sensor,

also when doing it, make sure to lube it up with rust pentritent (sp?) to try and avoid pulling out the threads in the pipe and such
btw: a 7/8 wrench works great for removing it (try and use the closed end even if that means cutting off the old connecter, less likely to screw up the flats where the wrench grabs,

some vehicles you do need a special socket for it due to clearence issues, but not ours

and i only saw one rear o2 at honda parts unlimited,but when you see RR it geneally means rear

webmastir

patience with that back passenger side plug

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

yeah that one can be a closed in around there but still doable tough

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

also when doing the plugs kinda twist the coils around some to break them free from the plugs, so don't just pull them straight up and and expect them to come easy


also i normally do one bank at a time, then the other bank
and for the coils, i normally just set them at the base of the windshield where the wipers are (they need to be handled with care, but they are not as delicate as you may think they are, remember they have to withstand the vibration from the engine day in and day out, basically just don't drop them and you will be fine

bruistopher

Hrey fries your online, good! Question, I'm in the middle of the clean up and used the coat hanger and got farther in the egr port in the plenum and I noticed a sleeve or the egr sleeve came out. Now I don't know if they installed the egr kit or not but I'm trying to figure out if its okay to leave it in or take it out?

There was so much carbon build in the sleeve it was ridiculous! I mean wow. I judge the outside of the port and thought it was clear and it wasn't!

So should I leave the sleeve or take it out? And I believe I got the hanger as far as it will go because I hear the scratching on the service of the inside of the plenum.

So where to go now?

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

the port shold go from the egr valve, up to the intake manifold

about that sleeve, do you mean the one that was installed for the tsb about it; in the intake manifold, if so give me a sec

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

this one from your pictures:



notice the lip around the circle part of the port

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

also i found out why you found two rear o2 sensors before too, one is cali spec, and the other one is federal emissions spec

bruistopher

Thanks for the quick response, dude! The sleeve looks like the one that you install from the egr kit.

bruistopher

Well I'm in Delaware so I wouldn't need the rear cali sensor, just the rear federal sensor, right?

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

so the one from the picture (just doable check that it is there )to make sure it is that one

but anyways if so, i would say it is not absolutely critical, it was mainly installed cause they plugged up so easy in that section (it is smoother then the aluminuim, so harder for deposits to stick), so would need a cleaning more often if not reinstalled

if you want to reinstall it, you need some lock-tite, a hammer, and a couple of punches (like a chisel one, and a drift one [circlelar and tapered to fit that sleeve)
(it should have been a snug fit, so it would not come out, unless of couse the dealer that installed it suck, and made the hole too big)

bruistopher

Well I took the sleeve out, should I leave it out or put it back in?

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

car could have been sold new in cali; you know people do move to different states
but that is the rear o2 (i think it just has longer wires on it anyways), so no concern of yours right now,
and as far as i see the front o2 is the same on both emissions, so would not really matter what one you have

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

i don't think it would hurt it to leave out, more just a matter of how often you want to clean that passage
more often=leave it out
less often=reinstall it

bruistopher

So then I will re-install the sleeve but spray a little more of the throttle cleaner and then re-install everything.

I cleaned the egr valve as much as I could so now I think it should be set. And the egr port on the engine is clean also. I just want to make sure that everything is fine before re-install.

Everything looks okay though and I got as deep as possible and there are no signs of crud anymore.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

maybe also try blowing through it with compressed air, that can get out all the loose shit too, and kinda show you how well it would be flowing too

to reinstall that sleeve, coat the outside with a little loc-tite (it's to help hold it in place), then push/tap it back in with the drift punch, then take the chisel punch and peen the edge like 2-3 times to try and lock it in there (for the peening, look at the axle nut in the center of the wheel, and how that is kept from rotating off; it just be from the inside out and not outside in)

bruistopher

I assembled everything back together. Pulled the clock back fuse #13 (1999) to reset ecu and the check engine light went out.

I pulled my scan tool in a noticed no codes or pending codes and the emission monitors saying okay.

The last time I did the clean up I did the procedure above I had the trouble code P0401 pending. This time nothing and the car responds good then before.

Let's see how this holds up. It says to drive the car over 55 mph and decelerate to 10mph two times and that will trigger a fault in the system and turn the check engine light on.

*crosses fingers*

Again what I did was use coat hanger this time and got really deep in the plenum egr port and even pulled the sleeve out and noticed a huge amount of crud in it. Sprayed with throttle body cleaner and got a nice result!

Hope it holds up this time!

*crosses fingers again*

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friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

normally i would say just drive it at a highway speed cruise, but if that is what they say to do, then do that (or just wait a couple of days too, with normal driving)
but yeah that is basically the drive cycle needed in order for that code to be set the easiest, to try and get it to trigger the fastest, but not neccesary
hopefully it stays off this time

bruistopher

Yup yup dude! It drove good on my way home too! Just hope its over if not then I'm going to keep trying and will not give up!

I think me using that hanger helped out a lot! I even pulled the sleeve out! Lol that's how aggressive I was and determined to get it clean.

Next up is those spark plugs. They need replacement. And I know I need 6 NGK Iridium IX's and some anti-seize on the middle threads of the plugs.

I'm sorry to the mods for taking this thread off topic if I did

Fries, thanks for looking out for me bro! You helped at the right time when I was in need

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friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

actually put it more towards the electrode end (but do not get it on the electrode), so when it goes in, it gets all the threads (you don't have to be superprecise though, just saying)
also copper antisieze seems to work better and last a little longer (but is more $ though) but the silver stuff works just fine too

NP, and hopefully you take it for a learning experence for being a good tech, and not being a butcher


btw: this thread was going off topic??? , title says egr cleaning in it

bruistopher

well i will keep your spark plug tip in mind when changing, but im a with these internet terms so whats a butcher?

and i kind of went off topic when we were discussing o2 sensors and spark plugs oh well we were troubleshooting anyway, i don't know why i feel guilty