cofidis2

I finally decided, thanks to all the info here, to clean the throttle body and the center part on top of the engine (its the piece with 10 bolts holding it on, you have to remove the plastic decoration piece to get to it). All i can say is how gummed up it was with carbon deposits. My car is not even 3 years old yet, and only 27,000 miles, and i scraped out a bunch of it. The metal gasket even had a thick coat of carbon on it. Put it all back to gether and took it for a spin. WOW, what a difference, the car runs like it was new again, and the gas pedal doesnt stick anymore.

Thanks for all the info guys i really appriciate it. And for all those DIY'ers it is a really easy project to do.

fsttyms1

you really should have removed the upper intake manifold and cleaned the egr ports in that too.

cofidis2

where is that and what does it look like??? also, how do you take it off and clean it properly.

thanks in advance

fsttyms1

Post #4
http://www.acurainspired.com/forums...?showtopic=4003
start off by getting 3 or so cans of SPRAY carb cleaner and acouple small scrub brushes.
if your engine is any thing like the 2nd gen
baisicly you take the plastic engine cover off 4 10-mm bolts. then disconect the battery. they disconect the rubber hose that goes from the air box to the throttle body. continue to unplg any thing that goes to the intake (any plugins hoses) then there are 10 10mm bolts on the top plate (the part that sticks up thru the plastic engine cover) oull that straight up being carefull to not damage teh gasket. then there are like 8 bolts (12mm i think, i cant remember off the top of my head) then you are able to pull the upper part of the intake manifold off (double check before you pull straight up that every thing is disconected) then get your self a nice place to work and start cleaning. (stick a bag over the TB before you hose every thing down like in my pic to be safe)
it sounds like alot but its really easy should take about a hr to do



you were over half way there with what you did, you just needed to remove a few more bolts

drcookie

Link no worky.

Try this: http://www.acurainspired.com/forums/...showtopic=4003

Cheers !!!

fsttyms1

try this one!
scroll down to post 4
http://www.acurainspired.com/forums/...showtopic=4003

cofidis2

thanks, I saved this thread so when i get back in there in the near future, i will take it all apart and do a really good cleaning.

TeknoKing

Hey Kris, I need yer help a bit.

I removed the cover, and the plate (10 10mm bolts)...My throttle is disgustingly dirty, and I have too clean it.

You've mentioned above that there are only 9 12mm bolts to unscrew to remove it, but I see some hex bolts on the side holding the piece, plus on the head (the one towards the intake) had 4 big bolts. Im not sure what to do exactly.

I dont want to unscrew unnecessary bolts, CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A DETAIL DIY, just to remove the throttle...PLEASE, i dont want to experiment myself too much.

Thank you in advance!

fsttyms1

once you remove the upper intake cover



look straight down into the upper intake manifold



those are the ONLY bolts you have to remove (9 of them, 2 are nuts, 7 are bolts)
remove all cables and wires from the upper intake manifold, then remove those bolts and lift straight up. there are NO other bolts that hold the upper intake manifold to teh lower



this piece's DONT get removed.

TeknoKing

AH HA! thanx for the fast response Kris.

I appriciate the guidance!

MarcDavidoff

Man, only 27k and you found alot of gunk huh? I have about the same mileage. I don't notice any performance issues, but maybe I'll try your procedure fsttyms1. I would be hesitant to pull apart the upper manifold, but it sounds like it is not too bad from what you mention. Is there any specific torque to apply when re-installing and/or sequence? Or just the old criss-cross and that feels about right

ou sig

I did mine when I installed the Thermoblock spacers a month or so ago - and it was real dirty. Actually the week before I was planning on doing it, the "EGR valve insufficient flow" code was thrown, so it was perfect timing to do both. and it was very dirty and the car idles very smooth now and the code went away after I cleaned it all out.
the torque is 16-18 lb-ft for the manafold fasteners. start from the middle and work your way out, crossing up and down each time you go side to side...sorry if thats confusing, but like anything be carefull because you are going into Aluminum.

fsttyms1

^ what he said^

optomos

Do any of the gaskets have to be replaced? Nice pics btw

fsttyms1

if your carefull when taking the intake pices off (straight up and slow making sure the gasket isnt stuck) no you can reuse them.

TeknoKing

thanx Kris again, I just did mine.

It took me about 2 hours (my garage light blew, so it was me and the flashlight).

I found it harder to take apart the hoses than to put them back in...

But now the throttle is clean as a whistle

thank u again.

fsttyms1

No problem. yea the hoses can be a little tight, but once you get that little crap off it actually goes pretty fast and easy

MikePA

Just curious...why is it necessary to disconnect the battery?

TeknoKing

I personally disconnect the negative anytime i work on the car, just in case; like a tool falling on a connection making sparks, or you might enjoy a nice shock if u forget, plus in this case, it is just a precaution........plus as I know it resets ECU, so thats pretty good since now after the throttle is clean it adjuts to the new flow or something like that.

Its just safer.

MikePA

Tks!

fsttyms1

^what he said^

MarcDavidoff

I guess I'll give it a shot in a few weeks when I get some time. I just can't believe I would have to on an '02 with 28k on it. Mine runs fine and all. I have cleaned out the throttle butterfly on my Accord, but that was only after about 100k. It sounds like a design flaw huh? Building up all that carbon so soon. I had a '96 2.5TL 5cyl that kept getting a clogged EGR port, but that was more so when it got up close and over 200K.

ou sig

it takes a while to be a problem - mine was after 85k. But you will get some carbon build up pretty soon that you could clean up - some of us just like to "over clean" our cars

optomos

On that board in that post you said "nope no intake. thats just carbon build up in the intake. the dealer said its a common problem, and honda has addressed the issue with a updated part to help eliminate it"

What is that part?

Hurleysurf24

I cleaned mine too but did this while i was at it

Before:

After:



*Look how nice and shiney the intake mani is god i love port and polish

johnny--2k

wow.....i need to mark this. Mine is an 03 with 64K on it. Idle is a little rough!

eh!curaplus

I've cleaned my top cover b4, thanks for the info guys but now i need more!
When i'm taking that whole top assm. off do i have to take the throttle
cable's off or
that whole snail thing?
anything special i need to know when attaching it back on?

and where is the EGR port? do i blast that with carb cleaner too?

fsttyms1

when removing the upper intake manifold you leave the TB on. just unhook the cables from it. just follow the instructions in post #4, there is a link to some pics in it too. once the top plate is off you will see teh clogged egr ports, but the upper intake manifold needs to come off so that thedebris doesnt go into the intake.
nothing special needed.

PeteTLS

Thanks to reading about this problem I decided to have a look at mine over the weekend. I don't have internet at home, but I figured I could figure it out. As fsttyms1 says it's no biggie to do, even without 'instructions', and I cleaned out a ton of crystalized 'crud'. Definitely have a smoother idle!! Haven't had a chance to really play yet to see if performance is actually better, but the idle benefits alone were worth the time.
? - there was a fair amount of oil (besides the crystalized crap) in the intake when I popped the cover. I don't know enough to know if that's normal. I didn't do anything besides clean the intake and the top cover, but I was wondering if there's anything else I should do. The butterfly on the TB wasn't particularly nasty, and I ran out of cleaner doing the intake, so I left it alone. I didn't mess with any ports either, should I have? Also, I noticed what appeared to be surface cracks on the inside of the front and rear housings (the parts held on with the allen bolts). They looked like stress cracks aroud where the various fittings go into them, but there was nothing visible from the outside. Anyone else seen these, anything to be concerned about?

fsttyms1

did you remove teh upper intake manifold or just teh top plate? if you removed teh upper intake manifold there isnt any thing else to clean. as for teh stress crack looking stuff, thats pretty normal. (as long as they arent actual deap cracks) i saw those my first time i had it cleaned and asked the mechanic about it and he said its normal.

PeteTLS

Ok, thanks - I did remove the upper manifold as well as the top plate. Cleaned out the intake passages and the 'port' or whatever it is that runs almost vertically just to the left (as you look down on the intake in the car) of where the intake 'Y' is - No, I didn't clean it on the car, just using that as a reference. Good news about the 'stress cracks'. Thanks!!

kobayashi

I did this today too on the 00TL-P with 120k miles. Just pulled the top cover, I need to go back in I see.

Several things:

I noticed the openings through the top plate gasket are smaller than the ports themselves, can they be opened to match? That seems to be a source of some of the blockage buildup.

I also had an amount of oil under the top cover(3 ozs total maybe) is this a cause for concern?

What is the updated part that improves this situation?

What about the PCV valve?

FYI, when you reset the ecu, per the Helms manual, restart the car with no accessories on(radio, HVAC, etc.) and raise the rpms to 3000 and hold it there until the car comes up to standard temp. Release the throttle and allow it to idle for 5 minutes(excluding any cooling fan on time.)

k.

PDX3.2TL

does this really help on idle noticeably? The small holes look more like bypass valves. Just curious. ALSO HOW DID YOU GET THOSE DAMN HOSES ON THE REAR RIGHT OF THE INTAKE MANIFOLD OFF? I COULDN'T GET THEM OFF FOR THE LIFE OF ME!!!

fsttyms1

kobayashi............. you have to remove teh upper manifold so that you can clean out the blockage. the blockage isnt due to teh gasket, its just build up in the upper intake manifold. as for the oil that is normal, dont worry about it.

PDX3.2TL........... take a pliers and grip the hose, and use them to break them free. once the rubber isnt stuck to the intake then it should pull off. if your still having a hard time (shouldnt after they are loose) take a small screw driver and slip it under 1 edge and spray a little WD-40 and then just like with the pliers twist teh hose a little to work it arond and pull them off.

kobayashi

I wish I had taken a pic but on a couple of the semi-blocked ports, they were still open the size of the opening in the metal gasket(smaller than the both sides of the ports themselves) but because the gasket created a lip on both sides at the joint, the carbon accumulated at that lip. But I didnt open the gasket holes more because I think the openings in the metal gasket may be metering the EGR flow.That would be a Honda move, its all in the details.

Do you know where the oil in the plenum is coming from? It almost looked like PCV residue but I couldnt find the PCV opening into that area.

k.

MarcDavidoff

Just curious guys- you are not using Carb cleaner on the throttle body/butterfly area are you? I thought you could only use Throttle Body cleaner or you can damage the teflon coating in the TB. I know this is the case on my Mountaineer..

optomos

Thats correct. Wipe it down but dont use carb cleaner.

eh!curaplus

Oh crap! i did use carb cleaner on the tb/butterfly area! i had tons of black stuff in there. specialy on all the cake on the flap part.

what did i just do? and how bad can it get without that teflon coating?

optomos

From what I recall its used to help with performance. Teflon is slick so the drag coefficiet of the air going by the butterfly and through the TB is reduced. Im not sure if it was added to reduce the butterfly from sticking or not.

ou sig

ya I did too...oh well Im sure it wont do that much, and if it does, then to the junkyard I go for a search for a different one.