when you use the drain bolt does it drain out 3 quarts automaticlly or do you have to measure the 3 quarts out?

 

it is a little over 3 qts. I think I put in about 3.18

 

thats all that will come out

 

Only three quarts come out because theres still tranny fluid trapped in the torque converter.

 

Has anyone tried either a home unit or a shop based oil vacuum system?
The shops advertise 100 percent fluid replacement because they can suck the torque convertor dry.

 

Honda doesnt want/like complete flushes like that. just do a drain fill

 

Thanks Kris

After I put some break-in miles on the new trans I will be doing a switch to synthetic

TL

 

Where is place to add the fluid ? I used to change mine on my 88 Legend and just refilled via the dipstick tube ...

 

You could use the dipstick to refill....I took out my oil jet to refill mine...this thread may shed some light...
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150293

However, mine is an '03 with the oiljet recall....not sure if you have that or not. If not, you should see the refill plug on top of the tranny...
Good Luck,
D

 

thanks - I had the oil jet installed, so that thread works for me !!!!

 

amsoil would be the only thing i would stick in it if i did

Thru the oil jet hole is the fastest and easiest

 

Solution=always measure the amount of fluid that comes out and refill with the same amount then check the level. Simple solution eh?

 

check out this post too=more info and ramblings

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148630

 

Thats what i do

 

Gotta agree with Luke and Kris. Measure and replace. On my old Chevy truck (no easy drain plug)- used to haul the race car, we disconnect the oil cooler line and do a "hot flush", pouring in as we remove, not something I would ever do to my beloved TL!

Thanks to Kris I now understand to use synthetic oil only in the engine and muffler bearings. The transmission gets the Honda fluid it was designed with

 

Yes gotta take care of those muffler bearings!!!


Unfortunately the TL 00+ (well i believe teh 99 does) doesnt have coolant lines that you can do the hot flush (ive done before as well) unless you have installed a tranny cooler. Then its possible to do so, but i would stick with the drain plug method

 

All my prior experience has been with GM and Chrysler automatics, where a fluid change ALYWAYS included replacement of the rather large FILTER that is accessible after dropping the bottom pan. Looking at the Helm/Honda shop manual for the 99 TL, I don't see any reference to a filter anywhere, although online suppliers list a "torque converter filter" as a replacement part.

While just changing 3 qts of fluid now and then is a good idea, if there are filter(s) in there gradually becoming plugged ...... Is there an accessible filter that can be changed easily in the TL 4-speed?

 

That hot flush that you describe does the exact same thing that a modern flush machine at a transmission shop does. It usually takes about 14 to 20 quarts to "flush" an average transmission.

The cost of 14 to 20 quarts of Honda Z1 or Amsoil fluid???

I'm a big fan of the triple drain and fill....

 

No. You have to remove the transmission and split the case in half to get it out.

 

Hmm. Another high-consequence-of-failure item that's designed to be non-maintainable or extremely expensive to maintain (see timing belt) .....

 

I don't agree at all. Honda transmissions kinda work like this...

__fluid in pan___ -> Filter -> Pump -> Internals -> Solenoid screens -> ___Fluid in pan___

The fluid that goes into the pump (through the filter) is clean, however, components within the transmission break down and release particles. These particles build up on the solenoid screens and cause shifting problems, etc.

The root problem is that something in the internals is breaking down - not that the solenoid screens are clogging (so cleaning solenoid screens or changing the solenoids will not provide a long term fix). If the transmission is functioning well, this breakdown should not occur in the first place.

As you can see, changing the filter does not stop the process from occurring. Honda transmissions can routinely go over 200k miles if they are well maintained, have no manufacturing flaws, and are not abused.

The Honda setup - with a non-replaceable filter - is just fine. The only way a Honda filter will get significantly contaminated is if something is going wrong with the unit in the first place. Even then, the filter has a tremendous capacity to hold contaminants and lack of fluid will generally not be a problem.

People frequently get cause and effect confused when it comes to transmissions.

 

Acknowledged. But since normal wear on parts will result in production of some fine particulate (whether from clutch packs or other surfaces), even without actual component failures, it would be expected to find some deposits on any filter in service for a long time period.

Since the filter is in the fluid flowpath to critical component(s), it follows that the fluid flow to these components will be diminished somewhat over time, albeit slightly. Granted, if the filter is entirely plugged, it's probably associated with a catastrophic failure requiring a rebuild anyway.

Bottom line, if there's a need for a filter in the first place (in any system, not just the AT), it seems that it would be prudent to be able to access and clean/replace that filter. Just my personal preference. But I'll guess that Honda has calculated that normal wear over X thousand miles should produce particulate of Y amount, which will result in filter/screen plugging of Z percent, which will not diminish hydraulic or lubrication performance for something in excess of 100K miles. Periodic partial fluid changes will carry out whatever particulate is in suspension in the fluid, but of course can't remove anything that's already deposited on a screen or filter.

But I'll keep dribbling out my 3 qts and replacing them periodically, and hope for the best.

 

Wet clutch systems like that in an AT put out almost zero particulate. If they are working correctly and have regular fluid changes, a transmission with 100k miles will look basically brand new inside. That's why fluid changes to a well functioning transmission are a good idea - no buildup to flush out, and you replenish the additives in the fluid.

Unfortunately, the clutches will start to put out particulate when they start to burn from slipping (which is caused by any number of root causes - some preventable, some not). The high detergent content in the fluid simply carries away the weakened oxidized clutch material from the pack. If it gets really bad - it's not just clutch material anymore. It's now also metal. That's why fluid changes to a transmission that's already got problems are a bad idea. That built up gunk gets washed out into the rest of the transmission and can clog many things beyond filters. The worst one I saw was actually a clogged cooler. The filter still allowed sufficient fluid through, but the clogged cooler caused an overheat condition.

I've only seen one vehicle that had a significantly clogged filter this year. Unfortunately it was a comeback for our shop on a heavy duty truck where we put in a torque converter with a defective lockup clutch. The clutch simply came apart without slipping. The clutch was sucked into the filter and caused a low pressure situation. Again, the root cause was not the filter being clogged - it was the defective clutch.

I understand the desire to think, "There's a filter in there. I need to change it." In the case of Hondas, for the most part I'd put my bet on the engineers that designed it. They know what they are doing. It's one hell of a robust design (OK - maybe not on some TL's ).

 

Thanks for the input.

 

You're welcome. Welcome to the forum.