Greggsg

Hmmmm.......

Channel 10 news in Miami/Ft Lauderdale had the following story on this topic the other day. Some guy in Broward is making kits out of mason jars

http://www.local10.com/video/16860025/index.html

Channel 5 in in Palm Beach county has a story as well

http://www.wptv.com/content/specialr...13A28&gsa=true

There was another story that aired in Palm Beach County about a month ago about a deivce that was being put in the engine compartments of police cars to increase the MPG. Since I live in Broward Conty, I did not see the story.

Since I drive 70 miles a day to get to work and back, I am very interested in doing something to get better mileage.

One thing everyone seemed to miss was that while yes, the altenator would generate the power for the separating the Hydrogen from the Oxygen, there is extra power that the altenator generates that can not be stored by the battery. Since the altenator is always running while the car is running, there is no additianal drain on the engine to generate the require power.

I will wait and see how the other people on this board do before I do it to my 05 TL.

Gregg

jibril_s

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=250267951485
I bought this HHO Generator. And I bought an o2 extender and flashback arrestor. I will post a video and a pics soon. I should be getting the device by the end of the week. Don't close the thread just yet.

Station

$138 dollars is alot to spend considering you dont know for sure if it works. i know the one you bought is really nice and probably worth the money but not if this technology doesnt work but i have a pretty good feeling. good luck man

Station

http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com/?hop=webdirect2 watch that first video on that page if it helps anyone. of coarse everyone can just read the site and think its a scam because it is to good to be true. so jibril_s i think yours will work great

fsttyms1

Hope your motors dont go

Bob_F

This is the bottom line.

Here's a helpful site that explains why:

http://www.aardvark.co.nz/hho.shtml

swalch@stanford.edu

Just to add to the confusion. I work on a project for Honda to develop fuel cells. It is certainly possible to use a fuel cell to power a car and indeed Honda has produced some. Currently the technology is very expensive.

Hydrogen can be produced from water by electrolysis or better yet there are solar devices that can produce hydrogen. Clearly it takes as much energy to convert water to hydrogen and oxygen as you get back from the reverse reaction.

I don't know what the device being discussed is. Evidently some device to produce hydrogen by electrolysis of water and I would agree that you can't get back more energy than you put in.

SSTL

iTrader: (1)

Convert to a wood burning engine! http://www.wheels.ca/reviews/article/305106.

swalch@stanford.edu

I think there may be an explanation for how these things work.

They are adding water to the intake. Then the water gas reaction

C + H2O --> CO + H2

removes carbon from the combustion chamber and converts it into combustable gases.

The effect is mainly due to cleaning up the combustion chamber.

rob-2

So are you saying they are adding a little water to the air/fuel mixture and as the temp rises the water is broken into HH0 both that burn?

jibril_s

I received my hydrogen generator today. I haven't tested it yet. I spoke with the guy I purchased it from on the phone. He offered to great support. I will start to hooking everything up tomorrow morning while the engine is cool. I just have to figure out if I want to run it to through the vac line. He said to pump the hydrogen into the intake filter so that there is no chance of the extra suction sucking water from the bubbler. Also I need to figure out where the map sensor is so I can build or maybe buy the map enhancer so I can lean out the A/F mixture. Pics and Video coming soon!!!!!

fsttyms1

Yea lean out the AF. Thats where the gains are coming from. Lean it out too much and PooF goes your engine.

kabota

Is there any kind of insurance? Cause leaning out the A/F mixture can badly mess up an engine. My guess is that this guy wont be so nice when you have problems.
I'm not wishin bad luck on you but the Thermodynamic calculations just don't add up on this. Its over 100% efficient. Engines by the laws of Thermo dynamics show that engines will never be 100% efficient.

shftl

As a fascinated spectator back in '73 and again in '81 it gives me a warm feeling of familiarity to learn that the "car that runs on water" is back with us again, no doubt along with the 100 mile per gallon carburetor that the oil companies bought up and suppressed. I watched the youtube videos, and all I can say is that my enthusiasm for having a jury-rigged piece of equipment under my hood that generates the most flammable substance in the known universe, a substance that cannot be kept in ordinary containers because it escapes around threading, is to say the least pretty modest. I've already lost one car to an engine compartment fire, a car that I hated and was glad to be rid of. I wouldn't want to lose the TL I love that way. :wink:

SQAcuraTL04

I figured I'd reply because everyone seems to be bashing this guy. This system in no way is to replace fuel. This is to act as an additive by pushing it into the intake. I won't get into the workings of this because if you really all cared you'd find the answers yourself. But before bashing this guy try it or do your research, or support a fellow aziner if he wants to give this shot. To honestly argue and say if this really worked the car manufactures would have done this already is a lame argument. We all know this world is run on oil, and any technology that were to come along and take the big oil companies out of business would slowly find themselves out of business, bribed out of their discovery, or worst yet murdered and then covered up. Any world changing technology that would take dependence away from oil gives the people control. Politicians see to it that events like world changing energy resources are slowly given to the people at a rate that they can accept it.

kabota

So being that I am in engineering and have seen the calculations and Thermodynamics shows that this won't work then I am not supposed to say anything? I work for a car company and sure if there was a way to implement this then trust me we would have it in our cars and have it patented.

I'm not bashing the guy. I hope it works for him but my professional opinion is that it wont work. People get so mad anymore when people come out and give a answer or opinion that others don't agree with and claim it as bashing.

jibril_s

The guy that built my unit has been using his for the past four months. He has seen a 10% increase in his Silverado. However he hasn't used the Map Enhancer. He did warn against using a O2 extender. So I won't install anything till I get a MAP Enhancer. Thats is the trick to these devices. Lean out the A/F mixture and substitute the difference in gas with hydrogen. The hydrogen will also help burn any hydrocarbons in the engine. So imagine driving while Seafoaming. That is the idea.

I don't mind getting flamed. However I just wish I could've done a total acurazine search from the site. After doing a total site search with google I found more heated threads on the CL and TSX forums.

Bob_F

A 10% increase in a Silverado? What's that, like a 1 mpg increase?

Seriously, how controlled were his mpg tests? Did he drive the same route in exactly the same manner under the same conditions? Did he consiously (or subconsiously) drive the Silverado more carefully after his unit was installed? The human mind is very good at making connections, even when no such connections exist.

You can see 10% variations in fuel economy without changing any hardware on a car. Drive a TL on the highway instead of in stop and go city driving and your fuel economy can jump from 16 to 32 MPG. That's a 100% increase without any hardware changes. And there are a dozen other things that can effect fuel economy.

rob-2

Keep me posted, I'd be interested to know how you make out. Pictures yet? What kind of MPG are you getting?

kabota

Hopefully you didn't take my post as a flame. I look forward to your results. Depending how I drive my car I can get a 10% increase. I don't trust hardly anything I read anymore unless I actually see real data. Look where Al Gore's lies have lead us too.

Greggsg

Ok.. Pardon my ignorance, but what is a MAP enhancer?

Gregg

swalch@stanford.edu

No. I'm saying at high temperatures water reacts with carbon to produce CO and H2, both of which burn. But I don't think the production of some H2 and CO is significant in terms of energy production. Rather the effect is to remove carbon deposits from the combustion chambers which makes the engine run better and get better gas mileage.
Don't know if this is what is happening.

fsttyms1

And if thats the case and all its doing you could achieve teh same results with good gas (91octane) and an occasional fuel and oil treatment like seafoam.

rob-2

Hmm, that doesn't seem to add up. If the additional gasses burn then, if properly tuned less gas(fuel) would need to be added into the A/F mixture.

It's hard to say a 'cleaner' engine would burn better, otherwise the gains would only been seen on old motors. So I think the only way this 'works' and I'm really going out on a limb here is if the addition of water (in its gas form) offsets the use of gas (fuel). Otherwise we're recommended people clean their motors.

Kris, or by running on 87 which has more energy in it

fsttyms1

But also causes the motor to retard timing and change when it should fire causing more carbon deposits.

rob-2

Tom - I recall hearing that jet engines ran slightly better in dam/rainy conditions due to the addition of HHO in the motor. Can you confirm this?

swalch@stanford.edu

My comment was based on a statement on one of the web sites that it took some time for the better gas mileage to start. If it were adding a significant amount of hydrogen the gas mileage should increase right away. I don't think you can be adding a significant amount of hydrogen by electrolysis of water just because the amount of water is small, just a small jar full.

SpecialFX

You're not the only engineer here. As a mechanical engineer for nearly 20 years I have seen many things that "can't be done" done. Not saying this is one of them, but everyone knows internal combustion engines are very inefficient. There are many ways they could be improved upon. And the fact that the hydrogen production portion of this equation in and of itself would be a loss, the overall effect could be a net gain in efficiency for the system as a whole.

I say good luck to anyone who ventures to improve on something, especially something that affects so many people.

Now those cars that supposedly run on just water....

Station

I have a really good unerstanding of Newton's law of thermodynamics because i have studied it and studied it and figured that the argument here is that this cannot work because it cant be efficient if the fuel cell is running off your alternator because it takes more energy to separate oxygen and hydrogen as it does to put them back into h2o so in turn you would be getting worse gas mileage.it cannot run in a cycle of free energy, its just not free, But what if you ran the hydrogen generator off another power supply, for example another battery that is not being charged by your alternator? this way there would be no strain on the alternator to produce the hydrogen therefor no loss of power except what you use to charge the battery at home but thats a different cost. yes the battery would eventually die but in the meantime wouldnt that make sense that it would be efficient. you could probably add 87 instead of 91 because the additive is supposed to act like a higher octain gas and prevent knocking saving your engine and saving you money at the pump. you could also lean your fuel and still prevent knocking, and increase mpg. hope that wasnt to confusing but just some food for thought. i love science

kabota

Any updates?

dvr8675

My other ride is a 1991 Dodge Cummins turbo diesel. There are a bunch of people on cumminsforum trying this out at the moment. I'm going to run a vegi conversion so I don't know a lot about it but it may be worth having a look at...

azn_xxxd

uhmm....car runs on water huh, whats next invetion ? Hey we could generate water to become electricity to use for house appliciances so no more Electric bills....Yayyyy lol shittt

5daddy13

Although I am not a scientific genious, neither am I an uneducated moron. All I know is that my brother-in-law is a mechanic and installed a hydrogen generator system on his Suburban and is getting 30+ mpg on the highway and 20-22mpg in town. He has been running this system for 6 months without any issues to his engine or electrical charging system.
He has had some trial and error failures due to designing the system himself, but has worked out most of the bugs. He is in the stage of design that focusses on improving an established success.
I must mention that he does not use regular tap water and he also introduces a catalyst that reduces the electricity needed to convert to hydogen. It is his design so I am reluctant to be more specific because he is installling these units on customer vihicles. He has only installed these untis on V8 engines so can't vouche for efficiency on other engines.

TheSentinel

Ummm, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that but from what I can tell by your remark there are a couple of terms for you Hydroelectricity and Electrolysis of water. The latter is what is being discussed.

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

I'd like to see myth busters give it a try. Here's a link to some interesting reading, seems this concept has been around for quite some time. Look around the site, they even provice the entire plans to making one.

http://waterpoweredcar.com/stanmeyer.html

http://waterpoweredcar.com/1978camero.html

6MTUA5

iTrader: (2)

Don't pay attention to him, he's a troll

DC3328

iTrader: (22)

i guess it didnt work.. or he didnt go thru with it..

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

if u want to save gas, remove those huge rims and put something light weight on

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

Well I just put 15 gallons of water in my tank but for some reason it is not working. Anyone know why?

DC3328

iTrader: (22)

^ your trannys gone