Cams
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Cams
Are there high performance cams made for our cars?
#2
its called get a type S motor
please wiki vtec and see the animations of how it operates
please wiki vtec and see the animations of how it operates
#4
Senior Moderator
#5
Senior Moderator
#6
B A N N E D
iTrader: (4)
Bisimoto does regrinds ![ugh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ugh.gif)
http://bisimoto.com/store/index.php?...Path=5_9_66_73
but thats all there really is, for ones to get easy access to, unless you go custom
but YES, it's the best to start with the most powerful factory motor usually though, ie: J32A2
![ugh](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/ugh.gif)
http://bisimoto.com/store/index.php?...Path=5_9_66_73
but thats all there really is, for ones to get easy access to, unless you go custom
but YES, it's the best to start with the most powerful factory motor usually though, ie: J32A2
#7
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#8
your alive!
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#9
#10
#11
Senior Moderator
Well sure you can get it to engage sooner but doing so does nothing. Its not like vtec is some magical power increase devise. The ECU and its mapping is set for stock. Changing it sooner wont increase power.
#12
Senior Moderator
#15
Unregistered Member
iTrader: (2)
Vtec, as you may know, simply extends the amount of time the intake valve is open. When driving at low RPM, this will actually LOSE low end torque. Activation of Vtec is properly controlled by the ECU to provide the best overall torque band.
Vtec actually is entirely based on the speed at which the air+fuel enter the cylinder. At very high RPMs, the piston is moving very fast. As such, the air+fuel is also rushing in super fast. This extra speed of the air+fuel has a lot of momentum. When the piston starts to compress, the momentum of the air+fuel is enough to keep pushing MOAR air+fuel into the compressing cylinder (just for a tiny bit longer).
If Vtec was active at lower RPMs, the engine would actually start pushing air+fuel OUT of the cylinder while compressing. This is because the air+fuel does not have enough momentum, as it would with high RPMs.
Hmm... That leads me to believe that a larger sized plenum would benefit from Vtec engaging at a lower RPM due to the increased speed/momentum of the air+fuel... Well, w/e.
#16
B A N N E D
iTrader: (4)
Fatty said it, and I guess I'll explain it in more detail.
Vtec, as you may know, simply extends the amount of time the intake valve is open. When driving at low RPM, this will actually LOSE low end torque. Activation of Vtec is properly controlled by the ECU to provide the best overall torque band.
Vtec actually is entirely based on the speed at which the air+fuel enter the cylinder. At very high RPMs, the piston is moving very fast. As such, the air+fuel is also rushing in super fast. This extra speed of the air+fuel has a lot of momentum. When the piston starts to compress, the momentum of the air+fuel is enough to keep pushing MOAR air+fuel into the compressing cylinder (just for a tiny bit longer).
If Vtec was active at lower RPMs, the engine would actually start pushing air+fuel OUT of the cylinder while compressing. This is because the air+fuel does not have enough momentum, as it would with high RPMs.
Hmm... That leads me to believe that a larger sized plenum would benefit from Vtec engaging at a lower RPM due to the increased speed/momentum of the air+fuel... Well, w/e.
Vtec, as you may know, simply extends the amount of time the intake valve is open. When driving at low RPM, this will actually LOSE low end torque. Activation of Vtec is properly controlled by the ECU to provide the best overall torque band.
Vtec actually is entirely based on the speed at which the air+fuel enter the cylinder. At very high RPMs, the piston is moving very fast. As such, the air+fuel is also rushing in super fast. This extra speed of the air+fuel has a lot of momentum. When the piston starts to compress, the momentum of the air+fuel is enough to keep pushing MOAR air+fuel into the compressing cylinder (just for a tiny bit longer).
If Vtec was active at lower RPMs, the engine would actually start pushing air+fuel OUT of the cylinder while compressing. This is because the air+fuel does not have enough momentum, as it would with high RPMs.
Hmm... That leads me to believe that a larger sized plenum would benefit from Vtec engaging at a lower RPM due to the increased speed/momentum of the air+fuel... Well, w/e.
but yes if set too low, you lose velocity, and the power along with it (and in all reality, you should NEVER be able to feel it kick in, cause the transition should be smooth, ie: when the torque curve from each cam/lobe, crosses over, is where your set point should be [so there is always maxinum torque])
and don't forget about the different fueling/timing requirements when the cams do transition over, so not only would the set point for vtec change, BUT you would also have to follow up with that, and change the tune when it does happen, to have a properly running engine
#17
Unregistered Member
iTrader: (2)
it would actually be called VELOCITY of the intake charge (air/fuel mixture)
but yes if set too low, you lose velocity, and the power along with it (and in all reality, you should NEVER be able to feel it kick in, cause the transition should be smooth, ie: when the torque curve from each cam/lobe, crosses over, is where your set point should be [so there is always maxinum torque])
and don't forget about the different fueling/timing requirements when the cams do transition over, so not only would the set point for vtec change, BUT you would also have to follow up with that, and change the tune when it does happen, to have a properly running engine
but yes if set too low, you lose velocity, and the power along with it (and in all reality, you should NEVER be able to feel it kick in, cause the transition should be smooth, ie: when the torque curve from each cam/lobe, crosses over, is where your set point should be [so there is always maxinum torque])
and don't forget about the different fueling/timing requirements when the cams do transition over, so not only would the set point for vtec change, BUT you would also have to follow up with that, and change the tune when it does happen, to have a properly running engine
Yea I agree that Vtec crossover should be smooth. I remember reading that Honda actually moved up to make it more noticeable on some early Vtec engines. Not sure if that's true though.
Last edited by Karanx7; 07-07-2011 at 04:19 PM.
#25
The problem with all of this is that while the stock configuration is pretty much set up to optimize the torque curve you can really never trust a manufacturer to truly optimize anything for performance when there are other considerations such as smoothness, loudness, longevity, and fuel economy. That said, there'd be no real point to changing this stuff unless you have made major upgrades and even then only after a trip to the dyno. Otherwise all we can do is speculate.
#26
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#27
Pro
Thread Starter
Wow. I just learned alot. An S type motor huh well if i had a couple grand in the liner of my sofa i would have one right now with a manual tranny but i was looking for a cheaper mod that, since my headers r on the way and i wanna be in s type territory with the p motor I'm looking at pulleys...but i was curious if there was something fairly simple beside those things to put me at about 260 hp im trying to find a s type manifold but no luck yet except for some sketchy dude on ebay...
#29
Pro
Thread Starter
Yeah i was looking at thermobloc's which should I consider more pulley or spacers..i can;t really afford both..I doubt ill buy a catback anytime soon and i will not buy a CAI its not enough difference for 250 bucks...will an s manifold make a big enough difference?
#30
Unregistered Member
iTrader: (2)
Get pulleys over spacers for sure. CAI and catback are definitely terrible when it comes to $/HP efficiency.
You could do the Type S IM swap, but I would look into the 09 TL IM swap. I'm not sure if you can do it on the TL-P, but I think it might give better gains than the J32A2 IM. Just something to look into, since it's a more involved mod.
You could do the Type S IM swap, but I would look into the 09 TL IM swap. I'm not sure if you can do it on the TL-P, but I think it might give better gains than the J32A2 IM. Just something to look into, since it's a more involved mod.
#31
Pro
Thread Starter
Ight, good call, is it possible, I wonder how much an 09 IM runs..
#32
B A N N E D
iTrader: (4)
Wow. I just learned alot. An S type motor huh well if i had a couple grand in the liner of my sofa i would have one right now with a manual tranny but i was looking for a cheaper mod that, since my headers r on the way and i wanna be in s type territory with the p motor I'm looking at pulleys...but i was curious if there was something fairly simple beside those things to put me at about 260 hp im trying to find a s type manifold but no luck yet except for some sketchy dude on ebay...
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
#33
Senior Moderator
Get pulleys over spacers for sure. CAI and catback are definitely terrible when it comes to $/HP efficiency.
You could do the Type S IM swap, but I would look into the 09 TL IM swap. I'm not sure if you can do it on the TL-P, but I think it might give better gains than the J32A2 IM. Just something to look into, since it's a more involved mod.
You could do the Type S IM swap, but I would look into the 09 TL IM swap. I'm not sure if you can do it on the TL-P, but I think it might give better gains than the J32A2 IM. Just something to look into, since it's a more involved mod.
#34
Senior Moderator
The problem with all of this is that while the stock configuration is pretty much set up to optimize the torque curve you can really never trust a manufacturer to truly optimize anything for performance when there are other considerations such as smoothness, loudness, longevity, and fuel economy. That said, there'd be no real point to changing this stuff unless you have made major upgrades and even then only after a trip to the dyno. Otherwise all we can do is speculate.
#35
Senior Moderator
in the 2nd stage? No. (doubt its even possible given the space) Your better bet would be to get an adapter plate welded to the IM and get a 75-80 mm TB. If hood clearance wasnt an issue adding a spacer (like the oddy/mdx) between the upper and lower IM would help increase tq.
#37
Pro
Thread Starter
I agree, I wanna know how, because if it is possible and reasonably priced ill do this. Also it wouldn't be an s-type right in 09 it would be an SH-AWD manifold..?
Last edited by KatabaticSaint; 07-08-2011 at 02:54 PM.
#38
Pro
Thread Starter
Man I love this forum look what i found in 10 seconds
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-frequently-asked-questions-52/diy-2009-tl-sh-awd-intake-manifold-install-01-cls-747771/
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-frequently-asked-questions-52/diy-2009-tl-sh-awd-intake-manifold-install-01-cls-747771/
#40
Pro
Thread Starter
I'm doing both and a Ur pulley just need the $$$