systek

i just got a 2002 TLS and it has 100 miles on it. i want this car to last, unlike my 97 CL 3.0, so i want to treat it right when its due...that means breaking in the new engine. is it necessary? if so, what do i have to do and for how long???

any help is greatly appreciated

bricot

Yep, it's necessary. You'll get a little variance in how many miles, most do around 600 per the manual some do 1,000. I personally waited until my first oil change at 3,500 miles before the V-Tec. Depends on what your comfortable with, but at least do the 600 stated in the manual.

Road Rage

I suggest you do a bit of homework and run some searches on this topic - this has been discussed in tremendous depth from a variety of opinions so to get the whole story check them out.

My expeirenc ehas been that Acura engines and trannies take more than 600 miles to fully run-in, and caution would suggest taking it easy for perhaps twice that figure.

jbrown

I say phooey! Break in is for old women, you put a few thousand miles on your car without hitting the VTEC and you're screwed. Justin Bell's cars (Corvettes and Camaros) go straight from the showroom to the track at his driving school at Moroso! If you break your car in like a girl, it will run like a girl. By all means, never thrash your car within an inch of it's life, but do NOT baby it. I say you should drive it like the performance car that it is from day one and stay on top of the maintenance and you two will have a long, happy, reliable, and fast relationship.

mr tl

that doesnt make too much sense

the way i figure it, the only cars not requiring a break in period are hand built cars

corey415

Yeah i agree with mr tl.

bnaderi

im with jbrown, i dont think its needs to be babied, i have 800 miles on mine i felt the difference at 600, although i did not take it easy from the start, i drove it hard once i hit about 100 miles but after 1k, its on!

jbrown

Why does it matter if a machine tightens a bolt or a person does? Where do you think you are more likely to find inconsistency? A person who builds a different engine every day, or a machine that installs the same bolt to the same torque spec 1,000 times a day?

The only argument I know of for break-in is the settling of bolts and bearings due to harmonic vibrations of the engine. Are you with me? If so, do you want things settling (and theoretically performing better) based on 2,000 rpm, or 6,000 rpm? It's not as simple as I just stated, but I'm for 6,000.

systek

so far, ive only punched it and hit vtec once from a stand still, it already had 450 miles on it. but other than that, i havent dogged it or hit vtec. i do let it rev up to 4500 rpm when driving, but i really want to be sure that i wont have problems in the future...if i make this road trip tomorrow, i will be over 1k on friday...

evolaerok

See this topic goes on and on... When I first bought my Type R, my friend said that the engine is ready to go from the get go. I drove that thing hard and raked up 80k miles and no problems at all. When I went to go trade it in the dealer was amazed how great condition it was in. My Bimmer was used so it was already broken in. My TL-S, I decided to do a mix. I drove it like performance car and on some days I drove like a granny... My cars fine with about mid 8k miles. Different people have different experiences.. I wish we can find a firm answer... But for now, to be safe just follow the manual.

systek

i hate this inexact science...

evolaerok

Hey do whatever you want to feel comfortable. Like I said follow the manual and you will be safe no matter what. For me I just couldn't wait, so I just opened her up...

Road Rage

"..and go round and round and round in the Circle Game"

These anecdotes really are just air...there is a reason Acura and every mfr. I know of recommend a gentle break-in. They do it because rarely there will be a catastrophic failure of a part at high RPM that might have survived past infancy had it been given a chance to bed-in. This reduces warranty claims, raises corporate profitability, and makes for happier customers.

This is an endless loop - but most SAE engineers I know recommend moderation in the first 500-1000 miles. This is not for bearings and the like, but to assure that the rings, especially the oil control ring, gets seated into the piston/cylinder bore optimally. Rings tend to stick at spots early on, and in extreme cases can actually fracture. To my mind, taking it easy a bit at first is cheap insurance. Also remember that there are many different metals in an engine - aluminum, cast iron, chromium, soft metals like copper, etc. All have different expansion rates. The engineers design the tolerances based on homestatic objectives, which entail both mechanical and thermal. I do not redline my car when it is cold, and do not run-in the car by driving it hard initially either.

I for one would not want to have a cylinder head replaced early, and then worry about what other metal parts have done what, and where. What is the rush?

Re: rebuilds going straight to the track - tru in many cases - but remeber, a rebuild for these guys is run of the mill effort - they also have no expectation that an engine will last over 100k miles. I do not speak for anyone but myself, but I would like to see my engine last as long as I decide to keep the rest of the car.

systek

well said. plus guys who race their engines tear them apart when the racing is done anyway...completely unapplicable...!

milesreed1

Here is the skinny. Cars in the past had to be broken in because of the cooling systems. Today, cars are liquid cool at a constant temperature. The problem was the engine getting too hot, and the piston/cylinder walls coking(sp?) With todays cars temperature regulated the way they are, no need to break anything in. It will be done on its own. Don't go out and trash the car, but take it easy for a bit, keep Mobil1 synthetic in the oil pan, and have fun with your new ride.

Road Rage

Your "skinny" is a bit thin... thermostatically controlled cooling has been around a long time. Can you cite any corroborative material for that rather outrageous claim?

I said it earlier - it is to seat the rings and other metal to metal surfaces (cam lobes, etc).

Here is a typical tech reference from Lycoming for aircraft engines, reciprocating type, also applies to our reciprocating engines.

http://www.lycoming.textron.com/supp...on_limits.html

fahoumh

damn, Road Rage, you really know your sh*t

jbrown

Yeah great job 'Rage, but I hope everyone actually read it, if not, here's the cliff notes (keep in mind that these are airplane and helicopter engines, so I assume steps 1-4 also help minimize the chance of mid-air engine failure and plane crashes.):
1. Run at idle (~1,000 rpm) until temp stabilizes or hits 140 degrees Fahrenheit.
2. Allow it to run for an additional 15 minutes at idle.
3. Shut it off and let it cool if necessary.
4. Restart it and run it at 1,500 rpm for 5 minutes followed by 10 seconds at full power! Allow it to cool moderately.
5. Next comes the real break-in. After take-off and sustaining suitable altitude (typically 90-100% power for about 10 minutes), run it at 75% for one hour followed by another hour of alternating between 65 and 75%! Are any of you guys cruising at 4,500 rpm for two hours?
6. Run engine up to 100% power for 30 minutes (5800 rpm in our cars!)
7. Begin gradual descent and engine cool-down.

Got it guys? Any of you planning on trying this? Please let me know.

I especially loved this little gem:
Note:
To seat the piston rings in a newly overhauled engine, cruise the aircraft at 65% to 75% power for the first 50 hours, or until oil consumption stabilizes.

I really want to see someone try this.

milesreed1

I laughed and laughed when I read what you put up there Road Rage. You put an aircraft engine to compare it with a car engine. Easy Tex. What you failed to realize is that I am a pilot(Ce-550, CL-60, Be-20, and tons of pistons), so I am about to pick apart what you wrote. 1st off, how is an aircraft engine cooled? How is a car engine cooled? That's right, aircraft by air, and car by liquid. A car's temperature is regulated, and unless the therometer is inop, it stays at a constant temperature until it is turned off. An airplane's (Piston) engine is cooled by the air getting rammed into it! If you are climbing out in an airplane at a high pitch angle, then the airplane will not cool as well as it would if you were to lower the nose a little. So, everybody does it differently, but essentially, the the pilot controls the engine temp of the aircraft engine.......No Thermostats, just ram air, baffles, and cowl flaps. Also, how are aircraft engines placed? That's right, horizontally, live the old VWs. Why is that? For maximum cooling ability. The reasons aircraft engines should run for a while before you drive is because of the viscosity of the oils that are used in them. Take Phillips X-C for example. It is 20w50. A majority of piston aircraft use straight 50 weight. It takes a LONG time for all that oil to get warmed up and circulated. It does not help too much that the oil is pooled in the very bottom of the engine, which is what happens when you use a horizontal configuration. Taking off with the engine not at normal operating temp will quickly wear out the cam lobes because they are not lubed. Also, what happens is you put car oil in an airpalne engine; will it still operate? Yes, but it voids the warranty because of the phosperous found in car oil. I will let you chew on that for a bit, and I will wait for a respone. Come correct next time.

Mr Hyde

I dont see Acura recommending something like engine breakin unless they felt it was necessary. For the time it would take to rack up the 600 miles, it sure cant hurt can it??

systek

which is pretty much what i did, plus taking that mid week trip sure helped. by the time i got back, the engine was broken in

Road Rage

"The purpose for engine break-in is to set the piston rings and stabilize the oil consumption. There is no difference or greater difficulty in seating the piston rings of a top overhauled engine versus a complete engine overhaul."

Direct quote from the post I left; no mention of your contentions, which remain uncited.

I do not see any ambiguity in Lycoming's quote - does anyone else?

Here are a few more - including another "misinformed" aircraft guy.

http://www.mattituck.com/new/articles/engbrkin.htm
http://www.cessna.org/breakin.html
http://www.seansa4page.com/resource/breakin.html

One other reason in addition to dealing with cylinder bore and ring asperites is to "expand the rings" into the bore. This is done by accelerating FAIRLY STRONG under load (say 2000 rpm) in a fairly low gear (4th will do). This will actually force the rings outward due to to high pressures developed. Do not lug the engine, just make it work a bit hard.

Over and out.