optiq

i am replacing my stock rotors and pads with some irotors. since im going to have to bleed the system i might as wel do the lines aswell (i hate the mushy feeling anyways)

these are the 2 different goodbridge brake line options

96-99 TL 3.2L Sedan #20103 $ 119.95


00-03 TL All #20082 $ 119.95

i have a 99 , would i get the first one or second one? didint think the braKe system is different in the 99's then the 2000's

Jerry944T

Take it from an ex road-racer. You don't want braided lines. They are dangerous on a street car since they tend to separate at the fittings. They are considered disposable items on a race car.

The difference between the brake feeling is negligible compared to factory lines as long as the fluid is fresh and properly bled.

I saw pretty nasty accidents due to braided lines failing.

Jerry

optiq

eek

patrick

I heard lots of TL people who have upgraded their brake lines say good things about the brake feel. This is the first time I've seen a post saying otherwise. Jerry, did your brake lines fail (from personal experience)? And why would the fittings separate if it is installed properly?

Edward'TLS

Jerry, how many miles or how long on the car will the braided brake lines fail ?

Edward'TLS

One more question, Jerry. The failed braided lines -- are they from Goodridge ?

Even the Comptech braided lines are just rebadged Goodridge. I believe Goodridge braided lines have a good warranty.

fsttyms1

if you buy good lines they wont fail. i race and havent ever expirenced it. and as far as a road car goes they are never put under the stress that the ones are that are racing. i would say go for it. alot ov members have done it with good results (brake feel) and in the spring when i bleed my whole system im putting them on.

Jerry944T

Ok, like anything else the quality of braided lines varied. I used the best ones since my life depended on them. I also changed them once every 4 race weekends as a matter of precaution.

I was also a tech inspector as well as competitor for PCA racing (Porsche Club of America). Each car had to be teched before each race. During that time I flagged quite a few cars for suspect brake lines, all of them braided.

What happened is if the stainless steel would start to unravel at the fittings and start to abrade the lines. I personally witnessed 2 Porsche's, rolled up into smoking masses of metal, that were attributed to failed braided lines that passed the tech inspection.

If you think your passenger car doesn't undergo stresses then you would be wrong. Also I seriously doubt that anyone would inspect their lines as often or as comprehensively as a race car.

Hey, the choice is yours. I know they look trick and I know they are warranted but regardless I will say with absolute assurance that they are not as safe as stock lines.

Jerry

fsttyms1

i didnt say thet our cars didnt go through stress, i just stated that they arent under as much as one that is used for racing. i had a prelude heavily modded that i raced scca and other events and had close to 100k(track and street use) on the braided lines.

Jerry944T

Actually if you did any racing you will agree that a well set up race car has much less suspension travel than a street car thus there will be less flexing of the brake lines.

Its the flexing that starts to break down the woven stainless wires that make up the braided lines. Once a strand breaks loose it goes to work on the underlying rubber brake line.

You will also agree that race cars undergo much more scrutiny on the safety related parts than do street cars so if a problem starts to arise it will, in most cases, be caught. If you went that far on braided stainless lines without changing them you are lucky. I know many others that were lucky also. Others not so.

I'm not saying they will break, I am saying that they have a much greater chance of failing than stock lines. I know many racers that went back to the factory part instead of taking the risk of brake failure. Once you see a car plastered up against the Armco of Watkins Glen due to brake failure you don't forget it and you make sure it doesn't happen to you.

Jerry

optiq

hmmm anyone else have an opinion im like 50/50 at this point

BEIKAY

As a former mechanic and with 20 plus years of race experience I am very suspicious about braided lines being sold as an acceptable upgrade for a street car. For the very reason Jerry944T discussed. I have used them on only one of my street cars, but it was a toy and driven 1k/year or so.

optiq

40/60

Jerry944T

Optiq,

Glad to see you're 10% smarter today. Really, if you must have them make sure they are D.O.T. approved. Most are not for a reason.

Underneath the steel braiding is usually a Teflon tube. It's impossible to see if the rubber or Teflon is wearing when its covered with braided stainless steel.

The difference in brake feel is negligible, especially in street use. Usually guys that put them on say they feel different and better because they are using fresh fluid and the brakes are bled properly.

For instance Porsche recommends that you change your fluid once every 2 years and that is for street use. If you want your brakes to feel much better then get some good fluid and bleed them properly. You will think you just installed braided lines without the expense or potential danger.

Jerry

Edward'TLS

My new box of Comptech stainless steel braided brake lines is still sitting with me right now waiting to be installed. The steel braids are covered inside a plastic tube, not bare. They are from Goodridge, and are D.O.T. approved. They also come with a warranty unless the banjo fitting angle has been altered during installation.

Shall I install, or shall I not ?????

benzo555

I've had the GoodRidge braided lines on my Integra. I would prolly see track time maybe once a month. Owned them for over 3 years and never had any unraveling or anything of that sort. I even had powerslots and upgraded metal/masters and AEM pads on them. The only thing that gave out prematurely was the master cylinder after installing the lines the week before.

Plus GoodRidge do have lifetime warranty on those lines.

Jerry944T

"Plus GoodRidge do have lifetime warranty on those lines."

OK, not being a smart-ass here but you just may not be around to collect on that warranty if they fail. Just a thought.

So is the warranty for the life of the lines or your life? Usually if a line fails it will fail catastrophically.

Jerry

patrick

Um, true. But doesn't that apply to just about any mechanical failure that's related to a vehicle with warranty? (eg: tranny failure - potential to get killed if the tranny fails if a person is driving at highway speeds)

Jerry944T

Sure Patrick, although brake failure is almost guaranteed to lead to an accident. Other mechanical failures have a much less probability for a catastrophe.

Even if say a trans locks up at least you will come to a stop albeit not a controlled one. If a tire blows and you have some skill you probably will keep the car under control.

If you are approaching an intersection and someone runs a stop sign and you jump all over the brakes and they fail, welll.....

Reminds me of a line in "Dirty Harry" where Clint Eastwood says "Are you feeling lucky punk?"

Jerry

benzo555

If a Mack truck ran me over today I would never collect any of my warranties either. Its life we all go someday whether you like it or not. God's funny isn't he?

Have you had a SS line fail on you?? Seriously, most accidents on the track and road races are due to driver errors, oversteering etc, hitting the brakes at the wrong time etc. Thats not the brakes fault. Its driver error.

But I respect your opinion on what "YOU" think why is not worth it etc. With the comment as suspension travel, unless the line was the wrong length, you wont have a problem. My SS lines was just a tad bit longer than the rubber lines, but they all still mount at the factory locations. I inspect mine at everyrace as well. Even till today they are still fine on them.

There is a reason why there are also SS lines for FUEL, NOS, OIL, COOLANT etc. Unless you install them wrong, thats the only other reason I could see why they leaked or failed.

Here is an clippet I found on Google:
http://www.philsinc.com/goodridge.html

The advantages of Goodridge G-Stop Brakelines are not only for the high performance vehicles; they are also a terrific performance enhancement and safety improvement on the “daily driver”. A reduction in braking distance during a panic stop can reduce the possibility of accidents and save lives. It’s features like this that make Goodridge G-Stop Brakelines the most cost-effective safety improvement you can make on any vehicle.
G-Stop brakelines conform to all federal requirements of FMVSS106, making them D.O.T. Certified and T.U.V. Approved (Germany). All Goodridge G-Stop brake lines go through a 9-point Quality Assurance testing process including tensile strength and pressure testing to 3000 p.s.i. before leaving our facility. To ensure proper fit and easy installation, special end fittings and line brackets have been produced to fit identically to each vehicle. The exclusive Goodridge “Forever Guarantee” covers G-Stop Brakelines, as well as any product we produce. With the largest application listing of any company and an impeccable reputation backed by champions throughout motorsport there is no reason to choose anyone else.

kent_99TL

I believe as long as "DOT" approved it should be safe to use on street.

BEIKAY

I stand corrected. DOT rating is likely safe to put on and ignore. My major concern was fatuige of the SS braid and nylon center. The materials may have been updated to remedy the situation.

KJ32

It's very educational reading this post. Here is my thought. I do believe SS can provide firmer feel due to less flex of the rubber inside. It should, technically, be stronger than oe lines. However, it could sustain to damage from debris the tire rolls up, heat or fatigue over time just like OE. I am acutally more concern with other brake components like the master cyclinder and the booster etc. If the flex from oe line no longer there, along the brake system, something will take a beating harder. I really don't want the booster nad M. cyclinder to fail, they are freaking expensive and I might lose my life. Whether how soon something will give, that's a whole different issue. I guess all of you got a point. Great debate :

Type S Lady

Jerry944T & Beikay, this thread was very informative. Thanks

pmptx

Wow,

The things you don't often think about. As simple as a brake line, but important.

04AcuraTL6speed

Like Edward said, the teflon hose is covered by the stainless steel braids which are covered with a secure plastic covering/mold. The problems with the old ones were that they weren't covered with the plastic covering. So debir would get stuck in the steel braids and rub agains the hose.

The new DOT approved one, i feel safe. They put these lines on high speed centrifuge machines and spin them around for the fatiuge test. What first happened was that the lines would fail the test because there was too much flexing about the line and the fitting. They overcame the problem by placing plastic piece around the fitting and the line.

patrick

After reading this FAQ from NSXprime.com, I agree with Jerry that braided brake lines is a mod that we should really think twice about. If anyone is planning to install SS brake lines (Comptech, Goodridge), make sure you read the FAQ below. If you have already installed the SS brake lines, make sure you do frequent maintenance checks and testing to determine if the brake lines are still OK to use.

Check here for the original link:
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Performance/brakelines.htm

patrick

Read the FAQ link I posted above. You may want to re-evaluate whether DOT approved is safe enough for you.

r10apple

This is specifically why I did not go with a full kit or change my lines...I've seen many total failures by debris and honestly, how regularly are you going to inspect the lines???

Jerry944T

The link that Patrick provided is "must" reading for anyone contemplating these lines.

The link echos some of the points I made originally and brought up some new and disturbing points. Please read that link and educate yourself.

I still contend that a good fluid change with proper bleeding technique will give you a much firmer pedal than you have now. Brake fluid should be changed, on a street car, once every 2 years because of the hygroscopic nature of the fluid.

Jerry

patrick

Does anyone know off hand how often our brake fluids are changed by the dealer, if we follow the scheduled maintenance interval? I don't recall getting this done on my TL yet. I'm gonna have to get this done, just to get better braking capability.