Ok, I have an 03' TL - S w/ 30k miles on it already. I bought it last April 4th. Someone at work just bought the same one same color, with spoiler... I'm looking to get rid of my car now. I'm looking at a BMW 325i. Do you guys think I should or not? It's the same class but the TL - S is definitely faster. Any advice or opinions would be great!!! Thanks.

 

I WOULD STAY WITH THE TL. IF YOUR GONNA GO WITH BMW MIGHT AS WELL 330I.

 

330i!!!!! If I had to do again I would do the 330i, love my TLS but I think I'm a little to young for this TLS. Of course I'm joined at the hip with it for 58 more payments but if I had it to again I would go with the 330i!

 

BMW is TOO over priced. I was in the sane boat as you two weeks ago. The BMW will in the end NOT be the same price as the TL-S because everything on it is an option!!! Evern the leather is an option. If you dont get leather the car comes standard with pleather? I don't understand how BMW...the benchmark of luxury???can be so stingy. Plus the car is slower and smaller. The only thing it has going for it is the name and style.

 

Mushutofu, you are so right on that. When I was pricing it I couldn't believe the sunroof was an extra $1500 and then the leather was another $1200. The final total was $34,600 if I remember correctly. I said the same thing, how can a luxury car not come with these luxuries? My brother said the same thing, "the 330i only has the name going for it right now." I think if I could have held out for a car a little longer I still would have purchased the name. It is a nice looking ride you have to give it it's props.

 

A-men to that... the 330i has the name and that's it... Don't get me wrong, it's a nice car, but BMW should be including more stuff with it... Screw this "optional" crap...

 

I’m not BMW fan at all. In 2000, the 3 series CD was extra for crying out loud! In my opinion, BMW does not start until the 5 series. The 3 series are for all the “want to pretend to be important crowd” with their exalted name plate. Please, they are so overpriced.

MBZ is the same with their lower end models. You will be hard pressed to match the performance (as in speed), luxury standard equipment, and value the TL line offers for about 30K. End of story.

 

BBB, I agree- the 5 series is the "real Bimmer" but if my boyfriend could only afford to get me a 3 series call me a "pretender" anyday!!!!!!!!!!

 

God not this topic again. Say all you want about the bimmer, but the TL-S is NOT in the same class/quality of the bimmer regardless of how Acura markets it.

Simply put, if you want the most bang for the buck, get the TL-S.
"bang" does not mean better here, simply more.

If money is not an object, hands-down the bimmer.

BTW - the 3 series is every bit as much the BMW as the 5 series, if not sportier. Own both, drive both and you will understand.

 

My buddy wants to get a 01' 325i with 9k miles on it... yeah or nay on that or the TL - S? He could get a 02' or the 01' Bimmer with 9k.

 

Has he driven them both yet?
I think after he drives the two he'll need to decide whether the handling of the 325i is worth the extra $$$ to him; it's really a personal decision.

 

Serverin, not sure I understood your email but the 3 is nothing like the 5. I drive the 5(Dinan) on a regular basis, test drove the 3, worlds a apart.

 

Stock 5, not Dinan and must be a 3 liter for comparison. I would much rather drive a 330 than a 530. IMHO, between these two autos, the 3 is more fun to drive. The 4.0 is unfair to use to compare. If you max out all the options on a 3-series there is little to be wanted that sets it apart from the 5-series other than space (again, 3.0 liter only).
I've driven a 7 series series on a daily basis also and IMHO the 3-series is infinitely more fun to drive.

 

Now I feel you.:p

 

Bimmer 330i should be loaded no more than 38k... then it is a decent price for a great car... not 42k on the MSRP... they need to prove to others why they can justify a tag of 42k... i cant think of any reason why its that much better

 

I love my TL-s But , you cant even compare it to a BMW , my pops has a 7 series and the handling on the car is amazing as it is on every bmw , you pay more but its a much better drive !!! But overall the TLS is a much better value !

 

Lets just put it this way. The TL is probably the best value car in the near luxury line up. The BMW 3 series, has the name, good design, and I particularly like the German design. But its way too pricey for me. I don't see how you can go wrong with picking either tho. BMW 330i and Acura TL were my choice when I was picking a car. Acura won out because of value and I haven't regreted my decision ever.

 

I never considered the 3-series versus the TL. They are NOT competitors. Not by price, features, or performance. You either value the TL for its value and feature content (like me), or are willing to pay the high price for the BMW because: a) You need a $7,000 propeller badge on the hood of your car to measure your self-worth or b) You realize that it is a true performance car and are willing to pay for it. Although Acura likes to compare itself against BMW (like everyone else), until the TL is (intentionally) small, rear wheel drive, available with a manual transmission, and available as a coupe, sedan, or convertible, it is not a 3 series competitor. Neither is the TSX a BMW competitor, for the same reasons. The closest competitor to the 3 series (at least in spirit) is probably the Lexus IS300.

 

Isn't Acura supposed to be in the same class as Lexus, Infiniti, MB, BMW? Weren't the Japanese car designed to compete with Europe's higher end luxury makes? Wasn't Acura was the first to be introduced in the states, as "precision automobiles"? Well if so, Acura got left way by Lex, and Infiniti on the luxury (refer to the GS430 compared to the RL). But they made it easy for a broke a$$ like me to have the best bang for the buck in performance and luxury.

 

I just bought an A-Spec after looking at (and test driving) a ton of cars including an IS 300 and BMW 330. The BMW was nice to drive, but there's no room in the back, and it is very pricey. The TL is faster, and I don't like feeling cramped. I couldn't see myself getting a BMW 300 series unless it was an M3. I found the Acura a lot nicer to drive than the IS 300 (to me, the TL felt a lot more responsive). The monthly lease payment on a comparably spec'ed 330 would be about $300-$400 more (Can) than my Acura. I just couldn't justify it. The drive is a little nicer, but not that much better. I see a ton of 300 series BMW's around, and not nearly as many TL's. I guess I also wanted a car that not every other person has. (Now someone's probably going to tell me that there are a lot more TL's than 300 BMW's in North America, but my perception is that TL's are a bit less common).

 

This is absurd. Many buyers consider both the 3-series sedan and TL-S when car shopping (I know I did). They do have quite a few distinct differences, but they are close enough to be considered cars that compete with each other. The fact that the BMW is rear-drive, a bit smaller, and handles tighter, does not mean that the two vehicles are not similar enough to compare. They are both about the same size with approximately the same power. The fact that many, many buyers consider both when shopping implies that they are competing vehicles.

 

The maintenance on the BMW is a B!$&h
You can't even do the oil change yourself. It has to be serviced. Parts for that car don't come cheap either.
I dunno..i have to agree with bbb with bmw sarting at the 5 series. I was shopping for a car for about a month. Got my TL-S two weeks ago. I could have easily gotten the 325i but...Y? It just an ok car.

 

I think the 3 series is to overrated(not including the m3).

the interior quality isn't that good, and it dosn't have enough power for the price unless u get the 330.

 

Consumer reports no longer recommends the 3 series. It has a lower than average reliability. That means it breaks a lot.

Also the car handles terrible in the snow and even when it rains the handling degrades a lot. We got rid of my wife's 325 and replaced it with a TLs. She is very happy.

 

Yeah but Consumer Reports still lists the TL as a highly desirable used car and doesnt even mention the tranny time-bomb so even though i read their magazine, they dont always get it right. If i was in the market for a used car in the 20k range, i sure would want to be informed that the tranny has a high failure rate due to a known defect by the manufacurer (the 3rd gear clutch pak).

 

I have to toss my 2 cents in here about the ongoing "debate" between the TL and the BMW 330. I cant for the life of me understand why these two cars are ever discussed in the same sentence since they are separated by such a huge price difference. If you buy a loaded TL-S its about 10k less than a loaded 330. Unless price is no object to you, thats a huge difference in cost between the two cars. If you only have in the low $30k range to spend on a car, you wouldnt even be able to consider a 330 (unless its a used one) so for that reason alone it makes no sense to discuss the two cars together in the context of should i buy one over the other. If you could spend upwards of 40k for a well equipped car, then there are other cars that you would be considering in that same price class, and the TL wouldnt likely even be on your list.
The BMW in general holds up very well over the 100k miles and its handling is great. Repairs do tend to be expensive when the car gets older, and its also a smaller in the interior than the TL. Certainly, if you opt for a 325 over a TL-S, then you are probably doing so just to have the BMW nameplate, since the TL-S is so much more powerful (the 323 is even sillier, in my view) although I cavet my words with the fact that since the new TL model is coming out soon, and the potential negative effect all the tranny failure hype has had on the TL, the TL resale value has taken a huge nosedive in the past year, so you may do better off on resale if you go with a Bimmer, even a 325.
If it was me, and money was no object, I would get the 330 or even the Benz C320 over a TL, for both of those cars proven durability histories. If i was adventurious, I might even dabble with getting a Audi S4, but i dont know how well Audi holds up over 100k miles. Of course, all of this depends on how much you drive and whether you are buying or leasing. If you are just leasing, then the difference in monthly payment is not that dramatic for most of us on these boards so maybe you could be considering the 330 over a TL-S. But an outright purchase at that higher price would be painful for many.
A TL is a good choice in the low $30k range. If you can afford to spend more, I believe there are many other alternatives to consider.

 

Your trippin. Obviously you don't know what your talking about. You say you can't campare the TL with the Bimmer but tehn you say yourd get a C320 if you had a choice between the TL and the Mercedes. Dude, the C320 comparably equipped is almost as much as the bimmer. You even go into an S4 which is in a league of its own!!! I know because I was just car shopping. And the TL is compared with the 3 series because we are not looking at just price but also the categories the cars are in...midsize entry level luxury.

 

Some good points 2002.

Before I bought my 03 tls I had considered the BMW. I checked with some mechanic friends who specialize in BWM & german cars. They told me that the BMW's were breaking down a lot more than they used to. My wife's was very reliable . It was an '87.

They told me to stay away from the Audi. Once you get past the warranty they break down a lot and they are so over engineered that that cost a fortune to fix. The Audi is a beautiful car that handles very well. I looked at that car also. I couldn't live with the high repair cost.

Don't forget that CR looks at the entire repair history of the cars it rates. So while the tranny issue is big, when compared to all cars acura does a much better job. Audi/VW had a big problem with ignition coils that were failing at a very high rate. The Audi has and ignition coil for each cylinder, so there are many more coils that can go bad. That's the over engineering I mentioned. BMW had a batch of motors that were recalled.

These type of problems are not unique to Acura.

 

Why is it that so many TL owners wish they had a BMW 3 series, but very few BMW 3 series owners wish they had a TL? And really, do you think BMW thinks Acura is a competitor?

 

Mushutofu, you are baffling me with what you wrote. Didnt you read and understand what i was saying?

2003 TL-S said it simply and eligantly with his point that there are not too many 330 owners saying they wish they had a TL.

The point i was making is that if someone IS considering a BMW 330, then some of the other cars IN THE SAME PRICE/CLASS as the 330 are the Benz C320 (about $43k I believe) and also the S4 (also somewhere in the low $40k range). And incidentally I wasnt saying WHICH of those three I would buy if I were in the market for a $40k+ car. What I was saying is that the TL isnt in the same class as any of those 3 cars. The TL has its own grouping of cars to compete with, including the I35, G35, Maxima and low end A4, to name a few.

And you hit the nail-on-the-head and argued my point for me in your response when you said you were just car shopping and presumably you were looking into some of those other $40k+ cars. At the end of the day you didnt buy one of those - you opted for the TL. The $40k+ stuff was not comparable at the end of the day because of price. Remember, the TL is just a souped up Accord. Its platform has the same roots as an LX accord. That accounts for the undersized brakes. Sure, the engine and suspension is a better design, but the fit and finish is no better than an Accord EX. Just the way the I35 is a souped up Maxima. Same platform, just a little more dressing. Only with the I35, you get even less for your money because its got the same engine and probably same suspension as a Maxima.

I also dont think you can group the Bimmer, Benz or S4 into the midsized "entry level luxury" group with the TL. Just because the the C320 is in the "C" class, doesnt mean the car is only ENTRY level luxury. Its certainly smaller than the E and S class, but it sure is well finished in the interior. Its not even the "Entry" level Benz, which is that silly C230.

Its wishful thinking to say that the TL is in the same class because its got a 260hp engine. And the same holds true for the Subaru WRX. Its a souped up Imprezza - a cheap car which is an even flimsier than an Accord LX. 0-60 isnt the only standard to determine the class of a vehicle. The TL represents good value for a low $30k car which is why we all drive one on these boards. There are some people that can plop down $130k on a Benz S600 and say it represents a good value over a Bently Turbo R ($320k or so)...

 

I think the only BMW I would buy over my TL-P is the M5... :worship: That car is INCREDIBLE!!!!

 

I dont think infiniti is considered higher than acura. I mean sure Lexus surpassed Acura but then again people see lexus as an old people car. Infiniti isn't a name that really strikes anyone either..imo..acura is still better than infiniti name wise

 

bmw is real man car

 

acura is good but no cigar

 

First of all i wrote gs-430 when I should have written LS-430. But I disaggree that Lex is an old people's car. WHat about the IS300? I suspect the majority of the TL-P market is about the same age as the LS300 market. Probably mid-30's to about 50, is the target ages, I would say, for both cars. But really how many 50 year olds are going to buy the GS-430? As far as Infiniti goes, I think they're whole marketing ploy is toward older people. With the exception of the G35 how many younger people would really want one?

 

They are both nice cars..........TL certainly gives more bang for the buck, however, the handling and build quality cannot be compared. I have a 330i, and love it, would I pay 40k+ for it? NO, but I work for FS so I get it for a whopping $350/month LOADED I'm still in love with the looks of the TL-S though, but if money wasn't a factor I'd take the BMW anyday.

 

I'd get the 325i or 330i even if it pulls less than an Acura 225HP; the car is just more memorable. You get for what you pay for.

Another great deal on leases here are the SAAB 9-5 at 577$CAD (about 400$US) no cash, 48 months.

 

I've had both cars and I can honestly say that BMW quality is much better. Ive had my car for 8 months and so far I have nothing to complain about. When I had my TLS, I had little problems here and there. I would always be worrying about my tranny failing.

My BMW has a full 4yrs 50k warranty w/full service (oil changes, services, etc). After 4 yrs, I'll probably sell it because I'm sure things will come up and parts are expensive (I also get bored).

Stock vs. Stock

If you want speed, more interior space, and will keep the car for over 4yrs, then get the TL-S.

If you want handling and don't care about the small space, then get the 325i. The 325i isnt that bad if it's in manual (auto lags).

If you were comparing the 330 vs the TL-S I would say to go for the 330. Sticker on my car was $43k.

Anyway, good luck with your decision.

 

My 5 cents

If you want to drive BMW - get yourself something in $40-50K range ( 500 series, M3 or something like that). Don't squeaze every penny out of yourself to buy a ****ty 325i without any options for the same price you can get Nissan Maxima, Acura TL, G35 and etc. Some people just want the stupid tag "BMW". Is "BMW" a status of wealth ? I don't think so.... not at least when you are driving the cheapest 325i .... (smart people will know that you are just trying to look cool, but obviously can only afford an entry level BMW. Rich people will be like "Look, this dude is a loser driving an entry level model of BMW pretending he is in an upper class society).

BMW is a very nice car... one of the best in the world, but if all you are willing to spend is $30K - you will look rediculous, I would not even bother.... better save up to get something for 40-50.... or rich people will be laughing at you.

 

Let's not forget that BMW's & Mercedes are essentially the GM's and Fords of Germany. If you purchase a BMW in Europe, the base model won't even come with pleather. It will be manual transmission, cloth interior car that "might" have a radio. They even have 1.6 liter models over there.

In fact, all of the cabs that go to the Munich airport are creme colored Mercedes' with cloth seats.

If you want to be laughed at, just tell a German that you spent $40k on a BMW! They're nowhere near that expensive over there.