tls260

the tl type s, after looking at all the cars there i realized just how nice the tl type s is.
tls by far the best value.
the layout and ergonomics are far superior compared to any bmw, mercedes benz , lexus, these cars all had more electronics and gizmos, then a space shuttle, there was just to much stuff in these cars, especially the new bmw 745i, what a piece
however they all accomplished the same goals as the tls, and some of these cars did not even have navigation
i can't believe people would actually go out and spend 50 to 60, if not more, on a car thats hard to operate and drive, i thought these new cars were supposed to be fun to drive and easy to operate, whats this world coming to.
comfort wise i think the acura seats had the most comfort and support out of all the cars there.
the m5 seats suck bad there hard and unsupportive, and they even had about 20 different seat adjustments, which didn't help at all. In general the bmw's have more than any other car, yet still suck they just have alot of **** which does nothing for the driver, don't get me wrong but the bmw's are faster and handle better but thats it.
I love acura and i'm sure that any else that went to the show feels the same way
ACURA KICKS ASS

Closer

1) Audi A4 and A6
2) TL with full wood kit
3) 3 series

My order of pref.

Bitium

WOW I thought the same thing, but I thought it was just my imagination. I guess I'm not the only one.

Acura console and dashboard is one of the best design I have seen in comparison to every other car out there.

Oh nissan skyline R34 is very sweet too.

Guest

So let me get this straight, if you had $70k to spend (about the price of a new 745) you would rather save the rest and buy a TLS ?! I don't understand how alot of people on this site complain about their car not having this or that (i.e. better stereo, heated steeringwheel, all auto windows, one-touch sunroof, etc) then you lambast cars costing twice that for having too much ?? They may all accomplish the same, heck, so does a Sonata, but they are usually more solid, more refined and more luxurious, hence the pricetag. As for the statement about navi, are you telling me you think a Porsche 911 is worthless without it ? Navi will be like ABS in a few years, alot of cars will have it standard as an added feature, I have it and rarely need it, it just came with the soundsystem. Not to say that navi isn't helpful but to gauge a car's worth by it, to me isn't the defining element. And you're entitled to your opinion, but an M5's seats worse than a TLS' ? :o

sniper5

That's like saying my friend's TV has color picture and sound, but that's it. And mine costs a lot less...

tls260

let me reword, the new 745i is a nice car i just perfer the simplicityand better egronomics of the tls....
and for cars being worthless without nav., i'm just saying the nav takes up more room, and would add more confusion and clutter in a bmw, compared to a well laid out acura.
the only thing a bmw has that an acura doesn't have is a rock solid chassis and rear wheel drive, the bmw is very stiff and solid which i like but i can't justify the price, plus there small cars.








however i really like the m3(my only exception)
keep responding i like the good comments.

1SICKLEX

I just called 911 to help this person get his head (so far stuck up his a$$ it is not even funny) out of his ass.....
TLS best of show
Hell, a GS 430 best of show

Glad you like your car but u sound really silly.....

AC

What planet are you from?

Is this your first over $25K car?

Don't get me wrong, but as a former owner of a TL, the ergonomics don't come close to that of the BMW (current BMW owner). The nav, yeah it sux dix on a BMW but c'mon Acura has AC controls on the screen (not cluttered at all).

M5 seats are hard, you wanna know why? Cuz all sports cars have them and should have them. Imagine you taking a hard left turn in your TLS, you'd end up on the passenger seat.

You will also find that there are a hell of a lot more Acura owners going to BMW rather BMW owners going to Acura....I wonder why?

But hey, you should like your investment...(although cars are sh!tty investmenst anyway)

ssk0771

Here we go again .

SoundSpeed

LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!

city001

man...these lex guys just luv to stick around acura tl site and complain what acura-tl ppl have to say and enjoy their cars over any other..

what the guy meant was he feels the Acura TL has the overall best design, comfort, size... and price and nothing comes close to that..

and I totally agree with him...

not because I can't afford a 70-80k bimmer, mercedes etc. but i find it's got the reliability...the look i want in a car.... I'v owned toyota, nissan, honda, mercedes, bmw, volvo... i'd say japanese cars have the least major problems and the longest life span. I just don't want to spend too much of my precious time at the autoshop waiting for my car to be fixed.

city

tls260

I just like the simplicity of acura
hey if you can justify spending 10,000 more on bmw 3 series that has the same features go for it
as long as its not my money
i mean bmw's are great cars

tls260

as long as your content with your car, what else could you possibly want (car wise).
hey if you need to spend a lot of money on a car to feel content then go for it
i guess i'm just very content with what i have
if i have what i want, and like what have, what more can i want.

as for mr. AC, i need bmw's out the ass to feel content
more power to you

Guest

city, I'm a former Acura AND Honda owner, and if someone said an ES300 was the best of show at a car expo, even though there were nicer cars costing more than twice that, I'd expect someone to find that just a bit narrowminded and blindly biased. And to partly justify that decision because that car has navi and less gadgets (incidentally which serve a purpose on the 7 series) seems a bit peculiar. Heck, I've seen cars with less overall gadgets, that I wish were in my car ! It's great to love your car, but to dog others (especially a 7-series, a legendary car to begin with) unjustly doesn't seem right.
just my .02

samkws

we are talking about different price level and different kind of car...
no comparison...

maybe there's someone saying the pontiac vibe is the best of all...

Bfor3

iTrader: (2)

All that he was saying is FOR THE $, THE ACURA TL-S IS THE BEST VALUE PERIOD. That is what made me buy my TL-S. I wanted the new MB C-class so bad that I already bought H&R springs for it. But when I did my stupid research on other models, I couldn't justify spending $43,500 just to get the sport pkg, HID (you have to order it as an option of course, cheap bastards), and then if you want the HID then you have to add the stupid (option)headlight washer which everybody uses. AND I would have still gotten smoked by the TL-S. Everything is standard on the TL-S not a damn option:wow: I traded in my 94 Acura Legend cpe (which I had little to no trouble with) just wanted a 2002 car NO LEXUS OWNER, BMW OWNER, OR PREVIOUS ACURA OWNER CAN ARGUE OTHERWISE, PERIOD CASE CLOSED

P.S. the resale value and longevity of BMW's are far worse than any ACURA (you will see many more 200,000 mile ACURA's than BMW's). PEACE.

Closer

I personally like Japanese ergonomics (on average) more than
euro. I don't like having window controls on the center console,
I want it on the door and I actually like the sunroof controls
where only the drive can get it. Climate control in nav is no big
deal because the climate control works fine. Set to 70 and leave
it. Look at the center colsole or stereo is very quick and easy.

Dont know if you've ever seen a Saab, it's like a keyboard stuck
to the dash. Audi and BMW have made awesome improvements
(imo) and lots of people love their ergo, but Lexus and Acura still
seem the easiest and friendlest to me. If people took time to
read they'd realize that the conversation is about ergonomics.
Real wood, rigid frame, or cost of the car have nothing to do with
it.

People need to stop flaming just to hear themselves flame.

(btw, ford probe ergonomics owned! )

Guest

BFOR1, I can see where you are coming from to some extent, but your argument is speculative and personal opinion at best. If every magazine states that the TLS is the best value period, is it fact ? No, just a consensus, so if someone feels otherwise, that doesn't mean they're wrong. What's funny is the number of people here that say their next car is this or that, usually BMW, MB, Lexus or Audi, but rarely Acura, why ? If it is as great resale-wise, dependable, etc, then why wouldn't one stay with them ? I don't see too much brand loyalty here, it's only when you criticize Acura that the loyalty kicks in (kinda like the "I hate my kid sister, but don't you dare say anything bad about her" syndrome). There's a reason somewhat that these cars cost a bit more, you're not getting the same reflector HID that Acura uses, you're getting auto-leveling projector(and yes it's costly to replace), you're not getting partial seating leather (although MB, and maybe BMW offer it) you're getting full leather, which is of better quality (TLS doesn't offer full leather), you're also getting genuine wood, illuminated steeringwheel buttons, all auto up/down windows, etc. Now these things may seem trivial to some people, but others look for these features and are willing to pay for it, the fact that people spend more doesn't necessarily make them foolish.

1SICKLEX

Yes, peoples perception of value is different. The Tl was not a value to me because for the price, I felt you got what you paid for; in other words I felt surrounded in a 27k car and not a more expensive car (Acura badge and all). So the price justifies the car IMO.

To me a 27k Altima is plain ol nuts I don't care if it has 440 hp. But people are buying em cause to them it provides good value. TO THEM .
To me if you car is going to be badged and sold as a luxury-line, you better ante up and provide things luxury cars are supposed to have. Don't give me the value argument if "value"=cost cutting and cheap.
Value TO ME is when Lexus first sold the LS 400 and SC 400 for 35k back in 1992. NO FEATURES WERE SKIPPED. There was no cost cutting. They provided some of the best vehicles on the market PERIOD (cause they still sold at 50k when the yen started sucking) and the 35k price was a HUGE VALUE.

BTW all things being equal, luxury cars are SUPPOSED to have the ignition on the dash, not on the steering wheel. Lil things like that are worth a lil more (to me)........

Read the last page in March's Automobile magazine, it blasts the Jag S-type, focus and the Altima about cost cutting and those cheap interiors.

"People may pay an extra 8k if you invested an extra $800 for the lil touches in providing a quality interior".

You heard.

Guest

Hey Sick, did Lexus actually price them lower to initially pull sales away from the Big Boys as has been speculated ? I mean, a loaded LS now costs around maybe $65-75k, and 10 years ago it was half that, is that in line w/inflation ? I still think the LS offers alot (compared to say, an S-Class) though.

Guest

Wait, don't the 3 and 5 series have them on the wheel ??

Bfor3

iTrader: (2)

So U are trying to compare the TL-S to the more expensive Lexus's, PLZ lets try to compare apples to apples. You mean the IS300 has self leveling HID's,
You said "reflector HID that Acura uses, you're getting auto-leveling projector(and yes it's costly to replace), you're not getting partial seating leather (although MB, and maybe BMW offer it) you're getting full leather, which is of better quality (TLS doesn't offer full leather), you're also getting genuine wood, illuminated steeringwheel buttons, all auto up/down windows, etc.
The IS300 may have some of these but If you want to compare the SC430 or LS430 or GS430's options then find out what the RL has standard or there options are. And of course the RL doesn't even come close in price.

YES, 1SICKLEX the altima is a piece at any HP or price.

And YES TedC I think the LS430 is a way better value than the S-class. But can we compare the same cars plz.

Mr.T

Hehe,
Man All I got to say is if you could afford it buy the $$$$$$ M5. Atleast I'm man enough to say I can't afford M5(I want so badly). TL is a nice car but Dayam your talking about an M5. No comparing I think when you try to compare cars out of there class it's like saying a fix up supra is better than a diablo just because it's faster or it has better interiors. If you think I'm wrong than I'll trade you my TL-S for a M5 any day

Mr.T

TypeSAcura

Lex I have to agree with you on this one.

Some people are just so narrow minded. I love the tls but to say that the tls is the best car in the auto show is simple ignorant.
The tls wasn't even the best car in the acura booth.

Granted the tls is a great car at 30k, but open your eyes man If we can afford a bimmer, benz, porshe or even a lex we wouldn't be driving a tls.

Its like people saying my university is better than MIT, but in reality that person couldn't get into MIT.

AC

LOL

1SICKLEX

2 things.

THe yen was trading at what $1-135 yen (is this correct anyone) so they could sell the cars cheaper here.
2. The LS was initially meant for E-class competition so it was priced to undercut the E. Hell the S-class sold a S 320 back then (inline 6 in that big car, whoa) so I think the LS stole some S-class buyers also. The new 7 series did not appear until 1995.

In 1994, the LS and SC were going for 50k.
1st year SC sales were around 20,000 units and lowered ever since (it's price and the truck craze hurt it).

In 1995 the LS went totally AFTER the S-class because the 1st gen GS (introduced in 1993 and that was a disaster) now competed with the E class etc.

It is very apparant now that the LS is battling the S class.
1 amazing fact, since 1990 to it's current 2002 model the LS 400-430 has not increased in length.

BFOR3 auto-leveling HIDs are on all Lexus models though HID is optional on most models.

Mr Hyde

First off I would never say that the TL-S is the best of show at any car show. Not by a long shot and then some.

I guess BMW is not a luxury car then huh SickLex. What about Volvo, Saabs have the ignitions lowere in the center console area. Thanx for clearing up the classifications for us. You are right Lexus makes a luxury car while clearly Acura doesnt because the key goes in the steering wheel where it is NOT SUPPOSED to go.

Also the TL-S with Navi lists for 33710, the TL-P is less. For that price what other car in the class comes close in amentities and features standard?? Leather seating surfaces and fake wood trim aside (both of which I am perfectly happy with by the way) the rest of the cars switch gear and controls are first rate. This is the last year in a 5 year cycle for the TL. A new one is on the way.

So you feel the TL/TL-S may not be the best value. But for cars like the 3 series and new ES300, I guess they are just straight out overpriced. Dont know why you have such a strong dislike for Acura SickLex, but I find some of your statements as narrowminded, biased and onesided as the original post.

Working for a hospital perhaps I can help put you in touch with the right people who can help you get your own head out of your own a$$, (Group-buy anyone???) and maybe those Acura hating blinders off at the same time.

Guest

Yeah, but this is where it gets sticky, when you talk about class, because as has been mentioned before, alot unfortunately is based on perception (sound of can o' worms opening !!). A perfect example is the Maxima, it offers everything the TLS offers, but for thousands less and of almost the exact same quality, but because of where it sits class-wise it doesn't compare. From a $19k Acura (luxury division) RSX to a $70k Dodge (non-luxury)Viper, the lines blur rather easily, especially when non-luxury carmakers (ex. Mazda) enter vehicles (MIllenia) into entry-luxury markets. I drive a Toyota (Lexus GS) and only bought it because I liked the looks and the reliability, if there were a cheaper car that offered more but was less attractive, I'd still stay with what I have. My goal wasn't to drive something with alot of prestige (like BMW/MB) because for the price of my 430 I could have just as easily bought a 540 or E430, I simply like the appearance of the GS, and if Lexus crumbled tomorrow I'd STILL be driving a Toyota GS430 and not caring a bit.

Mr Hyde

Dont you think that may have sometyhing to do with the fact that when people replace something they usually want to get something better and move up?

In Acura's case that only leaves the RL realistically; the NSX is of course excluded. Someone fell asleep at the wheel in regards to the RL letting it get as outdated and outhustled as it is right now. Pass the Xanax please, Im not ready for such an currentl uninspiring car like that yet; maybe 40 years from now.

If the next RL or any other car Acura may have in the works can give class conforming luxury and features with flares of the Legend of old in performance and style as it was respective in its class at that time, I for one would be waiting in line.

If projector HID's, full leather and not full leatherette(on seating areas as well) ala BMW 3 series, real wood, heated power seats with memory, 6 disk in dash cd with steering wheel control, moonroof, etc came standard at the price premiums which these cars start out at I'd buy that. But they dont. I see supposed luxury stripper cars all the time. Wheres the luxury? You say price cutting by Acura, I say gouging by the competition.

Guest

You're absolutely right Mr. Hyde, but it took companies like Acura and Lexus, and maybe Infiniti to expose these flaws. BMW and MB had nothing to compare to, and their marketing said so , but along comes the ES and TL/S and guess who starts to lose sales, even moreso because of the TL/S. Ironically though, they STILL don't get it, as they option everything out, and worse, MB's quality has gone down some and still charge alot for it. Ultimately, it will come down to 2 sides: more-for-less(money and perhaps quality) and more-for-more (you pay for it, but the quality is usually high, at least with BMW), it's really what you can and choose to afford. Let's face it, BMW/MB have been around forever with no real sign of disappearing, they sell more each year, at this point the race is for 3rd place.

tls260

clearly my opinion is personal preference, one may like the layout of a bmw or mercedes better then the acura and vise versa, thats why they make different cars for different people no one car company is right or wrong its just different
personal preference once again personal preference

here's a great example
say you are looking to buy a pair of shoes, you want to buy the highest quality pair of shoes possible, and you find them and your willing to buy them, even though they are $400
i mean you want to buy these shoes because they are the best (and they might be made by bmw ) but guess what they only come in a size 18.5 US. and you fit a size 10.
there is no way possible you can make an 18.5 fit your foot. so you later go out and buy a pair of nikes
(possibly made by acura) for $80 and they fit perfectly and are very comfortable and also look very nice so you buy it, just because bmw's are high quality and cost more does mean you are going to like it any more, but hey if your foot is a size 18.5 buy it
and the moral of the story is buy what your comfortable with i repeat
what YOU are comfortable with
and some people are very comfortable in a BMW (i'm not)

i enjoy reading your thoughts and opinions, i'm here to learn not antagonize
keep the responses coming

hangman

I personally think that if you have money to spend on a luxury car, then the life span of the car is at the bottom of the checklist when you go car shopping. Personally, I have not and don't plan to keep any car that I have for more than three years. Thus longivity and reliability is of less importance than luxury anemities and features. But I have to agree the best bag for the buck would be the TLS, and bang for the buck is high on my shopping criteria.

1SICKLEX

Hyde, your a riot. I am shocked you have sold self-restraint and not said your last word and CLOSED the thread, I am proud of you.

Nobody hates Acura dude, they just never offered a product I considered seriously (except the Legend, that is a CAR).

Maybe this will sum it up, "if you like White Diamond (the real stuff), you'll love Less White Zirconia (the generic brand)"

TypeSAcura

1st of all lex, i commend you cuz you got balls and you don't hold back on anything.

2nd allot of things you say are offensive to tls owners, but i hate to admit it many times your words are very true.

But please realize that this is a acura forum and no one likes to hear that there sh!t aighnt the greatest.

Bfor3

iTrader: (2)

So your saying that your GS430 is a "White Diamond (the real stuff)" and a TL Type S is a " White Zirconia (the generic brand) ". Then what the fvck will some one that owns an M5, that will completely kill your weak ass GS430, say to you Any response to that MR.

P.S. as a previous 94 Acura Legend Cpe owner "(except the Legend, that is a CAR)". That I'm still very very happy with my TL-S

P.S.S. No matter what you have someone out there has something better!!!!!!!! remember that!!!!!!!!!!! The guy with the GS430 thinks he's bad, Then the guy with the M5 drives by and punks you, then the guy with the porshe 911 twin turbo drives by the M5 guy (who just smoked you and thinks he's bad) and gets smoked by the 911. the moral to another story is be happy with what you have cuz when you die it doesn't really matter anyway!!!

Mr.T

:yack: sicklex j/k
hehe,
I love my tl-s but I think I had more problems than a bmw. So I guess it just depends on driver and preference of what ppl like. I will probably never be satified with any car. Y cause I run the hell out of each one and keep on wanting more sicklex it's cool and don't trip out so much. Just lay back and toke the budda :o
Roney King "can't we just get along"

Mr.T

TypeSAcura

BFOR3,

There is no need to get hostile at siklex.

He was merely trying to make a point that the acura is definately not the best car at the auto show.

The gs430 aint the best car either.

There are always a better car outthere.

Guest

To get back to an earlier point that was made by Mr. Hyde with regards to the price justification, at least with regards to BMW, I feel that alot of the handling and engine design (which to me adds to their legacy moreso) and not just marketing and "snob appeal" add to the equation. I've seen many people on this board and even ClubLexus talk about modding their car to be an "M3/5 killer" either through suspension or engine tuning. Anyone that has ever owned both a BMW and a modded vehicle (AC ?) realize that it may come somewhat close but never really simulates the BMW experience. Add to the fact that depending on your shop/dealer, mods can be frowned upon when it comes to warranty work, as they usually feel that the mods may have contributed to the failure or shorter life of the vehicle. Also resale doesn't necessarily guarentee a higher asking price because of mods. And at the end of the day, a modded Civic M fighter is still a Civic regardless. Of course M's have more than their share of problems because of their performance aspect alone, but the fact that BMW endorses it fully makes one breath a little easier, and that the modifications were designed explicitly for the M series. And this even applies to the normally aspirated Bimmers too, as even a 325 usually handles better than a modded Lexus or Acura, that's their forte. The fact that BMW's can compete speedwise with much less hp and at lower rpm's is a credit to their engine design also.

1SICKLEX

Like I said, I NEVER went to ANY car show and saw ANY best Lexus or Acura. No buddy.

THe last car show I went to in Atlanta, I saw an Ferrari F-50 (best in show), the new Z, Viper, you know CARS LIKE THAT.
My other favorite was the Benz CL-55, what a car!

BTW, I NEVER compare my car to an M5, I know it is SUPERIOR period (and raced one to 152 and he was WAAAAAAAAAAY ahead) performace wise, but I won't say crap like
1. I get better gas mileage
2. I saved 20k

etc etc....and the Lexus boys that do compare a GS to an M5 get an EARFUL!!!

We have the same problem on our board sometimes, sombody makes a thread that is so juvenille they get BLASTED for it.