etxxz

Okay, I could've had everything done an two hours ago, but turns out that the lower control arm ball joint would NOT come out...so, i tried everything possible BUT the Fork-like ball joint tool (which to my experience only tears up the ball joint)

I'm replacing the lower control arm so, then i just went towards getting the whole knuckle off with the lower control attached becuase the upper ball joint and the tie rod came out in two hits. BUt, now that its off, i think i might have messed up the CV join on the passenger's side axle from pulling the knuckle (you know how the axle is still attached to the hub, well it wasnt completely loose and i pulled on it)

The axle moves in and out as i spin it so before i try something else i want to ask you guys for guidance....i have plenty of exp on this department but have NEVER pulled a fwd axle (this is passenger's side and i can't really determine where to take the axle out from.

So here's where i stand:
I need new control arms on BOTH sides (i have a pic of two broken rims somewhere on this forum, i'm not crazy but i'm doing 1 side first to make sure this is what's bent)

Passenger side Knuckle is off with Lower control arm attached to it. I STILL can't get the arm/ball joint off
Something wrong with axle, boots still okay but i think i pulled the CV and hope i can pop it back in. should i pull the axle? how? if no, opinion?

Unfortunately, acura wanted nearly $2200 to fix the positive camber problem on my car. paid almost $160 for the inspection and it was determined that the lower arms were bent. I'm 20, full time student, make $250/wk i cannot afford acura's fix. I have a bimmer i can drive around while i fix this car.

I appreciate the help. Please let me know what you guys come up with. Thanks!
Oh, i can take all the pics you guys want if it means help. i'll be atent and will upload pics as soon as they are requested.

etxxz

here's pics of where i am.

everything apart:


knuckle w/ control arm

fsttyms1

So whats your problem? You think you separated the axle in the boot?

The axel should move in and out inside the boot. (about a inch and a half+- )

Why do you want it out? If you need them out the passenger side comes out in 2 places. Either at teh trans ot at the carrier bearing (where the inner boot is) Dont just pull on the half shaft or you may separate it inside the boot. You will want to pry (where the arrow is) where it meets the bearing while slightly pulling on it and it will come out

fsttyms1

If you dont separate it there you will have to undo the 3 bolts that hold the bearing for teh intermediate shaft then remove the whole assembly

etxxz

from the transmission yeah that's what i though, i just didnt know that prying was the method at the carrier bearing. i dont want to have to deal with tranny fluids as it just got changed so i'll pry it out. TY Kris.

Although i'm still not sure wether i pulled the CV inside the boot so i'm going to try some more twisting and forcing back in becuase i dont wanna have to spend money on another axle. Now, in case i did pull the axle inside the boot, that CV is never going back together eh? i just recently replaced a cv...

Now, as far as the ball joint omg.what do should i do next?

fsttyms1

If you pulled it out it most likely wont be centered in the boot, and it will rotate with out the other half rotating. If you pulled it out, you could bring it to a trans shop and they can pull the boot off and reinstall it.

As for the ball joint i would have left the pieces on the car and separated it that way. Its far easier to apply force to it mounted (unless you have the honda ball joint separator tool)
If you damage the boots you can get new ones at the Honda/Acura dealer for like 2.40 a piece.

Id say beat teh hell out of the end of the fork separator to separate it Persistance will always get the job done, some times you need to walk away and take a brake but in the end you will prevail !!

etxxz

hmmm... i will do some more dammage on the ball joint end. I just pulled the axle and it can rotate over the rest of the axle so aparently i did pull it. You sure a tranny shop will fix the CV? i'll dedicate another 30min on this and call it a day i'm beat + i got my wisdom teeth pulled 3days ago so imagine.

now we have a funny thing, i compred lower control arms and i can't really tell if the old one is bent or not did some measuring and both seem the same...we'll know once it comes off.

patience is not one of my virtues

fsttyms1

If it rotates inside it you separated it. Yea most can and will put them together. Well hopefully its a arm thats bent and not part of the lower sub frame. Id inspect that area where they mount up to see if any thing looks wrong

mr.motoring

Never use these forks to separate ball joints...



If you want to preserve the ball joints, use these:



You can rent them free at Autozone.

mr.motoring

I did all of this when I had to replace my torn outer CV boot.

The outer CV joint is not easily separable, as I had to painstakingly repack each of the ball bearings with grease, so your's should be okay.

You most likely separated the inner CV tripod roller joint from the grooves in the cup when you pulled on the axle, so now the tripod rollers are within the boot instead of seated in the cup.

Now there is a chance that the three rollers did not fall off the three-pointed yoke attached to the end of the shaft, and you could probably turn the axle while pushing in to see if it seats. However, if one of the rollers did fall off into the boot, you'll need to undo the CV boot band clamp surrounding the cup and pull back the inner CV boot to get to it.

It is not hard at all, especially since you have some knowledge of axles. You don't even have to pry off the axle, unless you have fat fingers.

etxxz

exacly. well like i said i dont want to even try the fork one beucase it ALWAYS rips the boot. I rented a pulley pulley from AAP which is similar to that pitman arm pulley in the second pic ex with adjustable arms BUT THE BALL JOIN WILL NOT GIVE UP!! its incredible i've never had so much trouble with something. i gotta walk away for a while since my mouth is acting up (wisdom teeth pulled 4days ago)

sad thing is, like FTTTSY said what if its the subframe!??! i'm pretty much waiting to take the lower control arm off and compare with the new one. will prob have to finalize with a camber kit anyways. the TL has been a wonderfull car untill now 8+years of perfect service

that is actually what it feels and i was hoping the CV be alright becuase i'd rather just buy a new axle than have thisone granade on me. When i rotate the axle it moves in and hour like its poping back in but not all the way. i still have some cv grease from doing the boots on my bmw so i might give it a try but...


i've never seen the mechanism your talking about with rollers on the tripod. we along these lines?

mr.motoring

yep, exactly

fsttyms1

If you cant locate whats wrong or whats causing the alignment problem you may want to look into a shop to help locate the cause of it. If it is the lower sub frame that the suspension attaches to it is also replaceable

lets just hope its not and its something like the lower arm.

etxxz

- AXLE IS FIXED...i can't believe i almost took it to a shop. there is no CV on the inner side of the axle and it was pretty simple to put everything back together.

MR.Motoring. thanks for the tip, none of the rollers had fallen out, but there is a square structure on the roller itself that aligns with a very tight gap inside the inboard CV joint so is necesary to slide the boot off

=====

NOW the Problem:

The ball joint will NOT give away, i got a pitman arm puller like above and have had it under tension for two days spraying MPL (cheap wd-40) every now and then and NOTHING. The screw is not deformed, maybe a little at the top becuase the tool has a pointy end that digs into the screw so i am almost considering cutting the screw off with my metal grinder, pressing a new ball join (existing one is still intact, but not after i chop it) and finally replacing the lower arm. can i see a show of hands or some ideas PLEEASE?


FSTTY: i inspected the lower most subframe (11 in diagram) and i can't really tell, i inspected unions and gaps between the two sheets of metal but i just dont know what to look for. The control arm attaches to 14 (right above where it says 15) but i really hope is not that part otherwise i'll have a acura and my insurance deal with that. just hope they dont junk my baby

etxxz

would it be possible to press the ball joint out if i cut behind the control arm....should i even do this. there wont be a tip to the ball joint any more.

I NEED MY CAR BACK ON THE ROAD...the other wise went very smoothly i'm loosing patience. Please comment on the metal grinder-->ball joint situation

fsttyms1

The #s you gave are for the Rear subframe. As for your ball joint question. Take the nut off turn it upside down and thread it on so its almost flush with the top of the end of the ball joint. Hit it a few really good times with a hammer. those can be stubborn. I wouldnt cut any thing because that wont do a thing. Ball joints are tapered. If worst comes to worst, just bring it to a local mechanic and have them separate it. Dont be afraid to use force.

etxxz

hehe i see, but not 11....neways, that's how i did the other side and hammering the nut was the first thing i did even before i took the knuckle off. I did some close inspection on the control arm and i clearly see that its bent as the big middle bushing is squished and deformed on the bottom so that's great news!

but i'm guessing that the impact was so hard that deformed this junction and is making it so difficult. I'll try a bit more force on the control arm and take it to a mechanic tomorow if anything... idk if you ever saw the pic of the shreaded rim i posted.

thanks for your help guys i'll keep yall posted

fsttyms1

I was going to say that some of the damage may be in the ball joint area which is whats making it hard to remove. In either case id replace that ball joint.

etxxz

FINALY...i though about that too and i finally got the control arm free today, replaced that ball joint and put everything back together in like 30minutes!

I put the car back on the gound, made a guetto pendulum with a shoe string and a 6mm socket and using a 90* ruler i did some math and came up with POSITIVE camber between 0.41 and 0.59-0.6 degrees. So, there's something else bent and although i could probably fix this with a camber kit i want to know what could be going on....

the driver's side has between 3 and 3.3degrees! Thing is i can still visually see positive camber although its nearly 0 on the pass side (side i just did) ... i'm very tired of dealing with this, i'm about to drop the car at acura and have the insurance take care of the repairs. my deductable is $500 which i will gladly pay...its that or $450 between the control arms, ball joint job and camber kit... too bad 'cuase i actually enjoy working on the car

fsttyms1

Id just bring it in and have them figure it out (with out using a camber kit) something has to be bent to be giving you visible positive camber

etxxz

in which case i will return the new control arm ($171!!) and idk if they'll do the inspection again which was almost $200 but in any case i already talked with allstate earlier today and told me about my deductible and tried to scare me by saying how my entire family's rates were going to go up (5cars on this policy). Alright Kris like always i give you my upmost gratitude on your help. I'll put the car just the way it was and have them repair it. it was a good learning experience...damn ball joint!!