eggbert

Autoweek, July 1, 2002
In The News section:

on the 2003 Accord:

....There's also word from Europe that Honda is testing a high-performance six-cylinder Acura sports sedan, likely the next TL Type-S, based on the latest Accord architecture.


:p

STi

new TL already?? that sucks.... too fast!

maybe it's just be an accord type-r for the non-american market?

aepiua

Also in the news section is a story about why Acura/Honda won't step into the RWD V-8 fight. According to the story, Honda estimates it would cost them $2 billion to gear up and produce a RWD V-8 and those numbers don't make sound financial sense. Sounds like the next TL will remain FWD.

"A consultant who declined to be named estimated that developing and tooling up both a rwd platform and a V-8 engine family would conservatively cost $2 billion. At that cost, even if Honda sold 100,000 such equipped vehicles a year, it would take 20 years to recoup its investment, the consultant said. "

sotiri

ahh yeah, so how are they recouping the cost for a RWD S2000?

gotta be something else there,

STi

i'm thinking that the s2k is more about the pride and achievement of Honda rather than a car that makes money

bigman

Tyhe next TL can be what it wants as long as it is fast, handles and look good.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

THE NEXT TL

STi

NSXNEXT
wow, how very convenient! sp all i have to do to change my TL to the new ones is the addition of OEM body kit, old style front end and rear lights, and some rims......

axeman

According to Motor Trend magazine (and a few dealers that I visit) the TL will be revised for the 04 model year. From what I hear, it will have more of a "European" flair for whatever that's worth. They will keep taking aim at the 3 series Beemers and I believe they nailed it with the '03 so I am anxious to see the new and improved '04.

Time will tell.

Axe

Edward'TLS

S2000 to Honda is like the NSX to Acura. It is the image issue. Acura is already losing money keeping the NSX alive, but it will not let the NSX die.

Mr Hyde

True, but I still dont buy the 20 year recoup theory and the $2 billion price tag when they already have the know how on V8 engines which they use while racing, and they have already worked on RWD platforms.

At the rate things are going, the longer they wait, the more its going to cost them and the longer it will take to recoup the costs at that point. Not to mention the lost sales in the interim.

If they want to compete in the Luxury car segment, The RL, NSX, and possibley MDX will need V8's to compete with the bigboys IMO.

aepiua

I disagree, as global oil supplies shrink and prices increase their will be a trend away from larger engines such as a V8. While this is occurring, people will still want to purchase a powerful luxury vehicle and Acura is positioning themselves to be the market leader. There is already talk of Honda developing a high performance hybrid engine for the NSX replacement. At some point in the near future, the trend will be for fuel-efficient luxury, unlike the glutinous Maybach.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a ardent supporter of Acura, but having switched from only driving V8 RWD vehicles to the TL I really don't notice a major difference. Ok, it was easier to spin the tires out on the RWD, but other than that I think the TL runs comparable to the RWD vehicles I have owned.

AcuraTLFan

To me, that's sounds like an oxymoron, "high performance hybrid engine". Maybe in the future...but not withen the next several years. The DN-X has TOTAL power ot 400 HP, 400 combined for the gas engine and the fuel cell engine. So it could be a 300 HP V6 and a 100 HP fuel cell engine, not very impressive, but nevertheless 400 HP. Gasoline has a higher potential enery that it stores, and the energy is release when combusted. When you look at electric or natural gas cars, they contain less potential energy. "high performance hybrid engine " is missleading, i think when they mean to say is that this hybrid engine performs higher than current hybrid engines; and not meaning "high performance" as lots of power and super fast.

I think Acura does need to jump on the V8 bandwagon, Acura can't keep up with Lexus, MB, BMW, or Audi. The TL is more powerful and faster then the Acura Flagship RL, and the TL is cheaper...i don't think anyone is their right mind would chose an RL over a TL.

Comment on Oil. Global supply of oil is long from "depleting". Price might fluxuate and increase, but that is not due to the "supply of oil" The US is pushing/investing in hybrid and fuel cell because we want to lessen our dependence on other country for their oil. The US has tons of their "Reverse Oil" stashed away somewhere incase of war or something of that nature.

About Honda's $2 billion price tag on V8 R&D, i would say that is BS. So Honda is telling me that Lexus, MB, BMW, Audi also spent around $2 billion R&D their V8, and that they are waiting 20 years to recoup its investment!?!?! So Lexus, MB, BMW, and Audi are not making any profit at this moment and they won't make profit this the year 2015?? MR. HYDE is right, they have develped V8 for CART racing (the formula one look a like cars). Unfortunatly, due to changed in the CART regulations, i heard that honda and toyota will stop making engines for them.

Economics: Supply and Demand...there is no way around that. Consumer demand V8, car makers will supply them. Acura doesn't supply V8, consumer will get them elsewhere. I think what Acura will do is beef up their engine, but beef up the entire car; they will have performance parts on the car right out of the factory to increase the HP rating, i.e. the TL-S might come with high performance headers and exhast increasing power to 300HP which is comparable to some V8. But there is a limit how far you can push V4 and V6.

Exotic Sports Car. What is an exotic sports car? How do u define a exotic sports car. Does Exotic mean, fast? expensive? futuristic looking? Well, dictionay.com defines exotic as "Intriguingly unusual or different". The NSX does look "different" in a good way. But that car is 10 years old and to me it still looks the same.
It has the 290 HP engine. NSX's apperence is exotic but what's underneath isn't exotic. When you look at a Lamborghini V12 engine, THAT'S EXOTIC. 0-60 times for NSX is around 4.8 sec. The BMW M5 has 395 HP with 0-69 in 4.8 sec. The M5 doesn't appear to very "exotic" but if you had a M5 i think that you would consider it exotic.