this sunday i went autocrossing at the meadowlands stadium, its done by nasa north-east chapter. there were some pretty amazing cars there, a bunch of 911 twin turbos, 4 or 5 new m3's, too many ITR's to count, even a an older ferrari showed up, about 150 cars in all. but the actual autocrossing was kinda boring... i'm wondering if anyone else here has done it and feels the same... when ur racing its just u in the car going around cones, u dont know what time ur running, so u dont know if ur doing better or worse, and it just seems like ur killing tires... i mean its nice sliding through the turns, but i dunno... anyone have any experience here with autocross that they wanna share?

 

I hear you, man. I went to an autocross they had at Yonkers raceway about a year ago. And it was cool to check out the many cars that were there. But the actual "races" were pretty blah. Haven't been back since...

 

Went to a Viper Club event at Texas Motor Speedway last year. It was set up in conjunction with Dodge. They brought several stock cars out to that everyone really got to drive hard. You could hear the tires squealing on the other side of the track! I had a blast, but it was VERY well organized. Maybe that's the diff.

 

Go road racing instead. The couse is 10 times more fun. Huge rush.
Especially since there's a 25% chance you'll see someone wipe their
car. Plus, you are actually head to head against other people.

You know know how amazing it feels to pass someone in a 911 turbo
or dodge viper coming out of a turn. Besides, the skills from road
racing is 100% usable on the streets. How often do yo bomb around
the parking lot at kmart swirving shopping cars at 40pmh? never...

 

Several points:

1) I believe you have to prepare your car (roll cages, much better brakes, etc) to road race and get a competition license.

2) It may be "cool" to see someone else "wipe their car" but when the guy does it right in front of you, or trys to late brake into a corner and drifts into your car the damage(read $$) can add up real fast.

3) If you are really serious about road racing you need to buy a race only car. (You know a car you don't have to depend on to get you home after the race or to work the next day). This is the advantage of autocross.

I agree it is a much better learning experience to do several laps at a time (instead of the one lap every 90 minutes in a autocross) and you can't beat wheel to wheel racing. But if you only have one car then autocrossing is ok. I always compare it to the qualifying runs for Formula One or the Indy 500. It is a different type of driving, requires a different skill and a good race driver can do both. (But yeah I have to agree it does pale in comparison to the track).

Yes there are some benefits to racing on a track: understanding the feel of your tires right at the limit of adhesion; learning how to recover from oversteer, or understeer (or even worse a spin), if you've raced in the wet you learn how fast you can really drive in the wet (can you say smooth); I even learned how you can scrub off speed in a corner (when you've overcooked your brakes) by 'throwing" the car into the corner and drifting through it.

Some other skills don't translate well to the street: Turning off the aggressive behaviour necessary on the track is hard. I'm not sure very many people would appreciate it if I passed their sorry slow a$$ cars and late braked them into the next corner, or used the space between the car in the left lane and the car in the middle lane to pass them both on an expressway or 4 wheel drifted (hitting the entrance point, apex and exit point perfectly) through both the 4 lane wide double 90 degree corners that were half a mile from my house. ( I know for sure that the MGB that spun out trying to keep up with me didn't appreciate my technique, he even followed me home to let me know about it. ) I know for sure the cop didn't appreciate my skills when I downshifted, hit the gas, passed that truck and merged back into traffic without using my brakes or scaring any other drivers. All he said was "73 in 50 you're mine".

 

A couple of years ago while at a track event at Lime Rock, CT I watched some guy get loose in his Ford Contour SVT. He corrected, saved it, overcorrected, lost it and rolled it. This was he and his wife's daily driver. He hung around for the rest of the day even though he couldn't race any more and when asked why he said "Do you really think I want to go home right now?"

The biggest problem is when this guy calls his insurance company to file a claim and they ask where the accident occured and he says "Turn 8 at Lime Rock" he's going to hear some muffled laughing and then a click as the receiver is hung up on the other end. Most insurance companies have disclaimers in their policies stating if the car is used for racing in a professional setting (read: track), they will not cover any damages, since the propensity for damage is quite high. SCCA is debatable since most events are low(er) speed in parking lots by yourself so the only real danger is punting cones.

Moral of the story: yes, track racing is like no other thrill but if it is your daily driver that is insured for the street, keep it there or be willing to pay out of pocket for any damage you get. Get a dedicated track car if you are planning on trading paint.

 

thanks for all ur thoughts and comments... it kind of follows my line of thought as well... my next step was to try a real race track, but the problem is i do not really want to use my TL for that due to all the reasons listed above... and i'm also trying to decide what kind of a roadster to get for fun driving/weekend getaways. kinda stuck between a weak miata/mr2 that can turn on a dime, or something thats faster than the TL-S, like an s2k or an audi tt(4wd hard to resist )

 

As far as breaking your car at an autocross, I never saw it happen in over 5 years. You aren't going fast enough. Most damage was to tires ( ) and to transmissions. (The ol rev it to 4 grand and drop it into gear)

A couple of thoughts here. The BMW car club (BMW CCA) regularly holds high performance driving schools at world class tracks across the USA( Mid Ohio, Road America, Sears Point, Laguna Seca, Road Atlanta). Because these are driving schools (no passing and no racing allowed) you are covered by your insurance. (They won't be very happy about it but you are covered). Also if you don't push yourself too hard you won't bang your car up. This gives you an opportunity to try a race track with your car.

If you are interested in track racing, the old CRX SI or Civic SI make a good entry point. 1) Find a cheap one because you should replace the suspension, brakes, transmission and engine. THe main point should be no rust and no big crashes. A great buy is a car with a blown engine/transmission usually cheap 2) Lots of aftermarket go-fast parts for these cars (again less expensive) 3) Lots of people racing these 4) Either do the work yourself or find a mechanic you trust because he is going to be building a car you need to depend on (maybe for your life) 5) Check out your local SCCA. They can give you a lot more pointers and their monthly magazine also has a big ad section if you would rather buy than build.

As far as a weekend car: Remember there are very few places you can go faster than 60mph and most of those are expressways that really don't require that competent a car to go fast. I would go with the miata/mr2 because they are fun at any speed.

 

I would never consider Auto-Xing my TL's. It simply will not do well. Right of the bat you have a disadvantage because the car does not have a real good turn radius. I find the Tl's tight cornering maneuvers pretty weak compared to say my S2000's. I find the TL's longer sweeping turns found on a race track VERY good.

I regularly AutoX'ed me S2000's.. dam thing is a go-cart and it excels at auto crossing like most cars with its design do such as Miatas.

I will put my TLs on the track though, I think it will do very well in this area.