Anyone know about fuels???
07-16-2008, 01:51 PM
#41
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by pnoi521
BTW this thread is ridiculous. You guys are just going in circles. He's never going to change his mind about using lower octane gas.
I would reconsider if we had more evidence of damage due to running lower grade gas. Thus far there has been ZERO evidence to suggest a modern day motor cannot adjust to a lower oc and run without issue.
I switched from 91 to 87 after reading a lot about how it was often a brand position and motor hp move. Not that the motor required it, just the opposite.
As for the valve noise, we'll see what happens this Saturday.
07-16-2008, 02:48 PM
#43
Team Owner
Originally Posted by rob-2
I would reconsider if we had more evidence of damage due to running lower grade gas. Thus far there has been ZERO evidence to suggest a modern day motor cannot adjust to a lower oc and run without issue.
I switched from 91 to 87 after reading a lot about how it was often a brand position and motor hp move. Not that the motor required it, just the opposite.
As for the valve noise, we'll see what happens this Saturday.
I switched from 91 to 87 after reading a lot about how it was often a brand position and motor hp move. Not that the motor required it, just the opposite.
As for the valve noise, we'll see what happens this Saturday.
It may be a hp move but regardless since it's tuned for 91, that's what you have to use. You ignore my other posts so I'll repeat myself, please explain where the reduced performance comes from when a motor tuned for 91 is run on 87....
Again, there is no "octane sensor". The engine has to ping first before the computer retards the timing.
It's bad for the board when you come on here saying things like you do when you don't have a basic understanding of how an engine and engine management work.
07-16-2008, 04:38 PM
#44
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by I hate cars
Not to talk crap but you really don't have a good understanding of how these things work.
It may be a hp move but regardless since it's tuned for 91, that's what you have to use. You ignore my other posts so I'll repeat myself, please explain where the reduced performance comes from when a motor tuned for 91 is run on 87....
Again, there is no "octane sensor". The engine has to ping first before the computer retards the timing.
It's bad for the board when you come on here saying things like you do when you don't have a basic understanding of how an engine and engine management work.
It may be a hp move but regardless since it's tuned for 91, that's what you have to use. You ignore my other posts so I'll repeat myself, please explain where the reduced performance comes from when a motor tuned for 91 is run on 87....
Again, there is no "octane sensor". The engine has to ping first before the computer retards the timing.
It's bad for the board when you come on here saying things like you do when you don't have a basic understanding of how an engine and engine management work.
There is no octane sensor but there are knock and o2. Both together help the ECU to determine what and how it's burning in the motor. Not all 91 gas is equal, there are different additives that burn differently. So the ECU adjusts. As for the difference I have noted no difference in any of the cars performance. Kris has stated the motor will produce less power due to the change in the timing mapping to accomodate the reduced octane.
I still ask that there be evidence brought forward that is more then the opinion of a few posters. Get me a reference that supports your statements and let us all read it.
We really need to stop the fearmongering that is taking place. It reminds me of sometime telling me 'you void your warranty if you do your own work'. Frankly it's a statement brought out of ignorance.
If there is real damage do be done on a modern day motor by running reduce octane there would be evidence. If you're basing your opinions/comments on this evidence bring it forward. If it's just hear say/old thinking it has no place in a serious discussion.
On with the evidence 91 fans.
07-16-2008, 05:20 PM
#45
Team Owner
Originally Posted by rob-2
It's not bad for the board to openly discuss a topic, that's what this is here for. We're not sheep, otherwise we wouldn't modify the cars, or do any of the work ourselves. Stop acting like others are too stupid to know any better after reading this discussion.
There is no octane sensor but there are knock and o2. Both together help the ECU to determine what and how it's burning in the motor. Not all 91 gas is equal, there are different additives that burn differently. So the ECU adjusts. As for the difference I have noted no difference in any of the cars performance. Kris has stated the motor will produce less power due to the change in the timing mapping to accomodate the reduced octane.
I still ask that there be evidence brought forward that is more then the opinion of a few posters. Get me a reference that supports your statements and let us all read it.
We really need to stop the fearmongering that is taking place. It reminds me of sometime telling me 'you void your warranty if you do your own work'. Frankly it's a statement brought out of ignorance.
If there is real damage do be done on a modern day motor by running reduce octane there would be evidence. If you're basing your opinions/comments on this evidence bring it forward. If it's just hear say/old thinking it has no place in a serious discussion.
On with the evidence 91 fans.
There is no octane sensor but there are knock and o2. Both together help the ECU to determine what and how it's burning in the motor. Not all 91 gas is equal, there are different additives that burn differently. So the ECU adjusts. As for the difference I have noted no difference in any of the cars performance. Kris has stated the motor will produce less power due to the change in the timing mapping to accomodate the reduced octane.
I still ask that there be evidence brought forward that is more then the opinion of a few posters. Get me a reference that supports your statements and let us all read it.
We really need to stop the fearmongering that is taking place. It reminds me of sometime telling me 'you void your warranty if you do your own work'. Frankly it's a statement brought out of ignorance.
If there is real damage do be done on a modern day motor by running reduce octane there would be evidence. If you're basing your opinions/comments on this evidence bring it forward. If it's just hear say/old thinking it has no place in a serious discussion.
On with the evidence 91 fans.
There are so many holes in your theroy, it's disturbing yet you come on here like you're an expert.
The 02 sensor has nothing whatsoever to do with the octane rating. It is there to always keep the engine running at or near stoich no matter what the octane rating is.
Our 11.0:1 motors are pushing the limit of 91 already. Have you seen the million page long thread on pinging?
Again, the knock sensor picks up on knock and then retards timing. Read this carefully, the engine has to knock first, before the timing is retarded. Once the timing is retarded, it's brought back quickly and if it knocks again it retards again over and over. There is a limit to how much timing the sensor can pull as is evidenced by the audible knock some of us hear.
Guess what happens when timing is pulled from low octane??? The EGTs skyrocket and heat up exhaust valves and catalytic convertors. Guess what else??? MPG drop. Guess what else??? Power and especially torque drop.
I keep close tabs on gas mileage and I get a good 4-5mpg less on 87 than 91. That more than makes up for the extra $3.00 I spend on a fillup with 91.
If you're questioning whether or not knock is bad for the motor, there's no hope for you. I have a collection of blown headgaskets, a broken piston, and some hammered rod bearings. The TL may not make the same cylinder pressures as my Buick but even a little knock chips and hammers away at internals.
Stop spreading this crap. You aren't onto something new, you aren't thinking outside the box, you're just spreading bad information.
07-16-2008, 05:29 PM
#46
Three Wheelin'
I never said the o2 sensor detects octane, my motor is a 9.8:1 2000 Acura TL not an 11:1.
I have not noticed a drop in MPG, if anything I get better then most.
I'm not an expert, I am asking for the evidence to be presented and presenting the facts I have gathered. Up until now there has been no evidence that our motors cannot handle 87.
As I stated earlier, Honda builds motors with equal or higher compression then mine and they use regular gas. I have never once heard a knock from my motor, and until I got valve chatter it was flawless. Motor is still silky smooth all the way to red.
I have not noticed a drop in MPG, if anything I get better then most.
I'm not an expert, I am asking for the evidence to be presented and presenting the facts I have gathered. Up until now there has been no evidence that our motors cannot handle 87.
As I stated earlier, Honda builds motors with equal or higher compression then mine and they use regular gas. I have never once heard a knock from my motor, and until I got valve chatter it was flawless. Motor is still silky smooth all the way to red.
07-16-2008, 06:53 PM
#47
Team Owner
Originally Posted by rob-2
I never said the o2 sensor detects octane, my motor is a 9.8:1 2000 Acura TL not an 11:1.
I have not noticed a drop in MPG, if anything I get better then most.
I'm not an expert, I am asking for the evidence to be presented and presenting the facts I have gathered. Up until now there has been no evidence that our motors cannot handle 87.
As I stated earlier, Honda builds motors with equal or higher compression then mine and they use regular gas. I have never once heard a knock from my motor, and until I got valve chatter it was flawless. Motor is still silky smooth all the way to red.
I have not noticed a drop in MPG, if anything I get better then most.
I'm not an expert, I am asking for the evidence to be presented and presenting the facts I have gathered. Up until now there has been no evidence that our motors cannot handle 87.
As I stated earlier, Honda builds motors with equal or higher compression then mine and they use regular gas. I have never once heard a knock from my motor, and until I got valve chatter it was flawless. Motor is still silky smooth all the way to red.
Things that affect octane requirement are compression ratio, timing maps, combustion chamber design, cam size, and many other things with compression and timing at the top of the list.
9.8:1 is on the edge of being able to run 87 without detonation. I was mainly talking about the 04-08 TLs with the higher compression and known tendancy toward detonation even on 91.
I agree that if a motor doesn't require 91, you won't see a benefit in using it. We may agree here that the lowest octane you can use without detonation is the best. If there's no pinging on 87 (verified with a scanner, not your ears), that's all you should run or you will be wasting money.
Either way, you can't look at one car that gets away with 10.0:1 compression on 87 and assume all of them can. If the TL's maps were programmed with 91 in mind, you need to run 91 or it will ping.
In my turbo car I used to run 87 when it was seeing freeway use with it's low 8.5:1 compression. Then I started playing with the timing maps and wrote a 91 octane only program that would ping on 87 going down the freeway but got much better mileage than the 87 program.
07-16-2008, 09:01 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by totaledTL
What's stoich?
Stoichiometry - the molar amount of molecules that allow for a balanced chemical equation.
For Gasoline combustion it's approx 14:1 Oxygen to Gas.
If you don't run at (or near) stoich, then you're either leaving gas unburned or not getting enough gas in the first place.
07-16-2008, 09:36 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by rob-2
....
On with the evidence 91 fans.
On with the evidence 91 fans.
....
Why is octane important?
It may prevent engine damage. If a
gasoline is used with too low of an octane
rating than is required by an engine, then
engine knock may result. Heavy and
prolonged knocking or pinging may cause
power loss and may damage the engine. .....
Why is octane important?
It may prevent engine damage. If a
gasoline is used with too low of an octane
rating than is required by an engine, then
engine knock may result. Heavy and
prolonged knocking or pinging may cause
power loss and may damage the engine. .....
....
Engine knock, however, should not be ignored
since it can result in serious damage to the engine.
.....
Engine knock, however, should not be ignored
since it can result in serious damage to the engine.
.....
http://www.state.mn.us/portal/mn/jsp...gency=Commerce
....
PISTON RING INFORMATION BULLETIN
Detonation in a Gasoline Automotive Engine
....
Oil economy declined approximately 30% when the engine was operating under detonation conditions. The graph shows oil control deterioration, and the photographs illustrate the damage to the rings. ....
All compression rings exhibited the pounded condition shown in the foregoing sketch. The oil ring expander had indented Itself into the lower oil ring rail. The upper rail also has indentations although to a lesser degree. The top compression rings had light to medium scuff on their O.D. face. No piston damage was apparent although some cylinder scoring was present on major and minor thrust sides.
Detonation can be caused by:
1. Lean fuel mixture.
2. Fuel octane too low.
3. Improper ignition timing.
4. Lugging the engine.
5. Excessive milling of heads or block which will increase compression ratio.
Detonation is a form of abnormal combustion in the combustion chamber. During normal operation of the engine, the burning of the fuel-air charge produces a steady, smooth push on the pistons of each cylinder. At the instant of ignition by the spark plug, the flame of combustion moves rapidly outward from the plug very much like the waves when a stone is dropped into a pool of water. ....
PISTON RING INFORMATION BULLETIN
Detonation in a Gasoline Automotive Engine
....
Oil economy declined approximately 30% when the engine was operating under detonation conditions. The graph shows oil control deterioration, and the photographs illustrate the damage to the rings. ....
All compression rings exhibited the pounded condition shown in the foregoing sketch. The oil ring expander had indented Itself into the lower oil ring rail. The upper rail also has indentations although to a lesser degree. The top compression rings had light to medium scuff on their O.D. face. No piston damage was apparent although some cylinder scoring was present on major and minor thrust sides.
Detonation can be caused by:
1. Lean fuel mixture.
2. Fuel octane too low.
3. Improper ignition timing.
4. Lugging the engine.
5. Excessive milling of heads or block which will increase compression ratio.
Detonation is a form of abnormal combustion in the combustion chamber. During normal operation of the engine, the burning of the fuel-air charge produces a steady, smooth push on the pistons of each cylinder. At the instant of ignition by the spark plug, the flame of combustion moves rapidly outward from the plug very much like the waves when a stone is dropped into a pool of water. ....
....
Pre-ignition, as the term suggests, is the ignition of the fuel-air mixture before the regular ignition spark from the spark plug. If the regular spark occurs shortly after the pre-ignition, the colliding of the two flame fronts will cause a pinging noise. Preignition causes loss of engine power and can cause severe damage to pistons, rings and valves.
....
Pre-ignition, as the term suggests, is the ignition of the fuel-air mixture before the regular ignition spark from the spark plug. If the regular spark occurs shortly after the pre-ignition, the colliding of the two flame fronts will cause a pinging noise. Preignition causes loss of engine power and can cause severe damage to pistons, rings and valves.
....
07-16-2008, 09:50 PM
#52
Senior Moderator
^ good info. Also remember just because you dont hear it ping doesnt mean its not.
07-16-2008, 10:11 PM
#53
My guess is that in normal use you could run 87 without damaging your conventionally aspirated engine, but that's just a semi-educated guess. I think that everyone who has posted has overlooked the obvious. Why would you not use 91? Cost would be the reason, right? Well, if the experts are right and you will lose about 5% power with 87 you will also lose about 5% of your mileage, and you'll have to buy 5% more fuel to cover the same distance. At present, with 87 at 4 bucks a gallon with a 20 cent bump to 91 the difference in price is about 5%. If 87 was at 3 bucks a gallon you'd be making out by saving the 20 cents, and at 5 bucks a gallon you'd actually be losing money, but at 4 bucks it's about a push. My choice is buy the 91 and have one less fuel stop in every twenty.
07-16-2008, 10:28 PM
#54
Team Owner
Very nice Bearcat.
I've got a collection of detonation damaged parts from when I was a 17-21 year old kid and couldn't tune. I'll post some as an example when I find them.
Just think about what the pinging noise actually is and you will understand how hard detonation is on a motor.
I've got a collection of detonation damaged parts from when I was a 17-21 year old kid and couldn't tune. I'll post some as an example when I find them.
Just think about what the pinging noise actually is and you will understand how hard detonation is on a motor.
07-17-2008, 12:08 PM
#55
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by I hate cars
That's a little different...
Things that affect octane requirement are compression ratio, timing maps, combustion chamber design, cam size, and many other things with compression and timing at the top of the list.
9.8:1 is on the edge of being able to run 87 without detonation. I was mainly talking about the 04-08 TLs with the higher compression and known tendancy toward detonation even on 91.
I agree that if a motor doesn't require 91, you won't see a benefit in using it. We may agree here that the lowest octane you can use without detonation is the best. If there's no pinging on 87 (verified with a scanner, not your ears), that's all you should run or you will be wasting money.
Either way, you can't look at one car that gets away with 10.0:1 compression on 87 and assume all of them can. If the TL's maps were programmed with 91 in mind, you need to run 91 or it will ping.
In my turbo car I used to run 87 when it was seeing freeway use with it's low 8.5:1 compression. Then I started playing with the timing maps and wrote a 91 octane only program that would ping on 87 going down the freeway but got much better mileage than the 87 program.
Things that affect octane requirement are compression ratio, timing maps, combustion chamber design, cam size, and many other things with compression and timing at the top of the list.
9.8:1 is on the edge of being able to run 87 without detonation. I was mainly talking about the 04-08 TLs with the higher compression and known tendancy toward detonation even on 91.
I agree that if a motor doesn't require 91, you won't see a benefit in using it. We may agree here that the lowest octane you can use without detonation is the best. If there's no pinging on 87 (verified with a scanner, not your ears), that's all you should run or you will be wasting money.
Either way, you can't look at one car that gets away with 10.0:1 compression on 87 and assume all of them can. If the TL's maps were programmed with 91 in mind, you need to run 91 or it will ping.
In my turbo car I used to run 87 when it was seeing freeway use with it's low 8.5:1 compression. Then I started playing with the timing maps and wrote a 91 octane only program that would ping on 87 going down the freeway but got much better mileage than the 87 program.
On the RL I can get 27-28mpg, both reported by the computer and confirmed by a fillup on 87. The car is rated at 26mpg highway. The reduced mpg theory is simply not holding true on these two acura's. So either I have a tail wind everywhere I drive or this statement is false.
Originally Posted by shftl
My guess is that in normal use you could run 87 without damaging your conventionally aspirated engine, but that's just a semi-educated guess. I think that everyone who has posted has overlooked the obvious. Why would you not use 91? Cost would be the reason, right? Well, if the experts are right and you will lose about 5% power with 87 you will also lose about 5% of your mileage, and you'll have to buy 5% more fuel to cover the same distance. At present, with 87 at 4 bucks a gallon with a 20 cent bump to 91 the difference in price is about 5%. If 87 was at 3 bucks a gallon you'd be making out by saving the 20 cents, and at 5 bucks a gallon you'd actually be losing money, but at 4 bucks it's about a push. My choice is buy the 91 and have one less fuel stop in every twenty.
As for the cost, lets say it amounts to $5/week (easy number and would mean you purchase about 22gal/week) in savings by switching from 91 to 87. That is $260/year and if you keep the car for 5 years. $1300 after tax, or approximately $1600 before tax. That's a sizable amount of cash. If you drove for 40 years at $260/year in savings you're looking at $10,400 saved. Got two cars, that $20,800. Buy 44 gals/week/car thats over $40K in savings. These are no small figures to look at. Yes its $3-4 a fill up but the longer term effect is HUGE. An extra $40k in my pocket is alot nicer then in some oil business.
Bearcat - good post. It still does not link directly to a maker that produces a premium fueled motor. So I'm a little sceptical. Good read though on all points.
07-17-2008, 12:15 PM
#56
Three Wheelin'
I'll touch base with you guys in 5 years when we get rid of the 2000 TL and let you know how it's running. As it seems there is no hard evidence to suggest my 9.8:1 motor will break running on 87.
As for the RL we'll keep gassing it at 87. The money saved over my lifetime will help put a child through college, or buy that car I want when I hit my midlife crisis.
As for the RL we'll keep gassing it at 87. The money saved over my lifetime will help put a child through college, or buy that car I want when I hit my midlife crisis.
07-17-2008, 04:00 PM
#57
Team Owner
Go put your car on a scanner, drive it like you normally do, and monitor knock. If no knock shows up, keep running the 87. If you see knock retard, you will benefit by using a higher octane in both power and fuel economy. That's the simplest black and white answer I can give. Anything else and you're guessing.
As for your question if knock causes problems, you're going against 100 years of knowlege. Plain and simple knock hurts the motor. Whether it breaks parts or just hammers away at the bearings and rings over the life of the motor depends on the severity. Keep in mind, while the detonation is happening and it hammers the rings, oil consumption will momentarily go up.
If your car requres 91 and you use 87 but it only knocks at heavy throttle, you can drive around that. My car happens to knock at part throttle so I have to use the good stuff. In my turbo car I can run 87 and stay out of boost.
As for your question if knock causes problems, you're going against 100 years of knowlege. Plain and simple knock hurts the motor. Whether it breaks parts or just hammers away at the bearings and rings over the life of the motor depends on the severity. Keep in mind, while the detonation is happening and it hammers the rings, oil consumption will momentarily go up.
If your car requres 91 and you use 87 but it only knocks at heavy throttle, you can drive around that. My car happens to knock at part throttle so I have to use the good stuff. In my turbo car I can run 87 and stay out of boost.
07-17-2008, 04:32 PM
#58
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by I hate cars
Go put your car on a scanner, drive it like you normally do, and monitor knock. If no knock shows up, keep running the 87. If you see knock retard, you will benefit by using a higher octane in both power and fuel economy. That's the simplest black and white answer I can give. Anything else and you're guessing.
As for your question if knock causes problems, you're going against 100 years of knowlege. Plain and simple knock hurts the motor. Whether it breaks parts or just hammers away at the bearings and rings over the life of the motor depends on the severity. Keep in mind, while the detonation is happening and it hammers the rings, oil consumption will momentarily go up.
If your car requres 91 and you use 87 but it only knocks at heavy throttle, you can drive around that. My car happens to knock at part throttle so I have to use the good stuff. In my turbo car I can run 87 and stay out of boost.
As for your question if knock causes problems, you're going against 100 years of knowlege. Plain and simple knock hurts the motor. Whether it breaks parts or just hammers away at the bearings and rings over the life of the motor depends on the severity. Keep in mind, while the detonation is happening and it hammers the rings, oil consumption will momentarily go up.
If your car requres 91 and you use 87 but it only knocks at heavy throttle, you can drive around that. My car happens to knock at part throttle so I have to use the good stuff. In my turbo car I can run 87 and stay out of boost.
I never asked if knocking causes problems. Too each their own, just thought it was about time we had the other side pipe up. Still no evidence that is on the level of the article I presented.
07-17-2008, 04:59 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by rob-2
Was out getting a light bulb for the TL. Bumped into a guy name Jerry with an 05 TL who runs 87oc gas. Says he has no problems with it. We talked for a little while about gasses and such. Interesting convo.
....
....
Originally Posted by rob-2
....
I never asked if knocking causes problems. Too each their own, just thought it was about time we had the other side pipe up. Still no evidence that is on the level of the article I presented.
I never asked if knocking causes problems. Too each their own, just thought it was about time we had the other side pipe up. Still no evidence that is on the level of the article I presented.
Now you're just being self-serving or delusional. It's the "I read it in the newspaper/saw it on the news/read it on the Internet, so it must be true" syndrome.
You posted a USA Today article for God's sake, not some scientific study in the SAE Journals. You don't know what comments were made and not included, whether any, none or all of the those comments were endorsed by the companies represented nor *any* data on long term effects of running low octane in an engine recommended for high octane.
IOW - you have the *opinion* of some industry employees.
This, OTOH, is an honest to god, independent test. Whether it would stand up to six-sigma DOE evaluation, I don't know, but at least it's TEST data, not opinion.
http://www.hastingsmfg.com/ServiceTi...detonation.htm
IOW - You've posted no evidence that is on the level of the link I presented.
Show *ANY* test data (including self-serving industry data, if it's available) that running lower octane than recommeded does not reduce mileage and/or increase engine wear.
07-17-2008, 05:41 PM
#60
Senior Moderator
Remember Al gore invented the internet too!!
07-17-2008, 05:47 PM
#61
Three Wheelin'
I think AutoZone has OBD-II readers for laoner/depist-return (could be wrong, might be code readers). Why not try it out and see if your car knocks on 87 and the amount of timing needed to correct it?
I think this is a great idea. Never having used the OBD-11 How would I configure it to report knocking or timing adjustment? Is the connector behind the ash try like on the 97 rl?
I believe I can get my hands on one next week. Then I can run some video showing the results.
I think this is a great idea. Never having used the OBD-11 How would I configure it to report knocking or timing adjustment? Is the connector behind the ash try like on the 97 rl?
I believe I can get my hands on one next week. Then I can run some video showing the results.
07-17-2008, 07:20 PM
#62
Kragen should have the right scanner- plugs in behind the small removable panel -between the seat heater switches.
100 dollar deposit-refunded when you bring it back-- and they download the info it learned- analyze and advise whats going on for you---FREE
100 dollar deposit-refunded when you bring it back-- and they download the info it learned- analyze and advise whats going on for you---FREE
07-17-2008, 07:39 PM
#63
Team Owner
Originally Posted by rob-2
I think AutoZone has OBD-II readers for laoner/depist-return (could be wrong, might be code readers). Why not try it out and see if your car knocks on 87 and the amount of timing needed to correct it?
I think this is a great idea. Never having used the OBD-11 How would I configure it to report knocking or timing adjustment? Is the connector behind the ash try like on the 97 rl?
I believe I can get my hands on one next week. Then I can run some video showing the results.
I think this is a great idea. Never having used the OBD-11 How would I configure it to report knocking or timing adjustment? Is the connector behind the ash try like on the 97 rl?
I believe I can get my hands on one next week. Then I can run some video showing the results.
07-18-2008, 06:46 AM
#64
Drifting
[QUOTE=I hate cars]Go put your car on a scanner, drive it like you normally do, and monitor knock. If no knock shows up, keep running the 87. If you see knock retard, you will benefit by using a higher octane in both power and fuel economy./QUOTE]
I agree, great idea.
I agree, great idea.
07-18-2008, 08:56 AM
#65
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by I hate cars
Make sure it has live data or it's useless for this test. If you're ever down south, you can use mine.
it has to have live data reporting to show you those things.But going off a post from rob in a diferent thread it appears he drives so slow (seeing as he claims to get 320+ to a tank city, which is more than many members here get hwy) i doubt much it would matter
07-18-2008, 10:06 AM
#66
I saw an ad from kragen specifically saying they had a scanner that you plug in and drive around with- then they dowmload the info and diagnose- looking for parts to sell you~
Its a $100 deposit- so its not the 30 dollar basic scanner, its the proper one we need when looking for the obscure.
I drive gently in town anyway, so I eliminated a few single store trips, go a few places on one day- and get to drive the TL like I enjoy it.
Thats my compromise on fuel cost for the month. Drive less- enjoy more
Everyone can eliminate a few trips that are short, cold engine, run to the store now-- when you are going to a place right near it tomorrow....- that will improve your mileage.
And its great for us PROcrastinators...I'm saving gas,,,
by putting off till tomorrow what I could do today!!!
Its a $100 deposit- so its not the 30 dollar basic scanner, its the proper one we need when looking for the obscure.
I drive gently in town anyway, so I eliminated a few single store trips, go a few places on one day- and get to drive the TL like I enjoy it.
Thats my compromise on fuel cost for the month. Drive less- enjoy more
Everyone can eliminate a few trips that are short, cold engine, run to the store now-- when you are going to a place right near it tomorrow....- that will improve your mileage.
And its great for us PROcrastinators...I'm saving gas,,,
by putting off till tomorrow what I could do today!!!
07-18-2008, 11:57 AM
#67
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
it has to have live data reporting to show you those things.But going off a post from rob in a diferent thread it appears he drives so slow (seeing as he claims to get 320+ to a tank city, which is more than many members here get hwy) i doubt much it would matter
Tom - I will get my hands on it after the valve work Saturday.
07-18-2008, 05:57 PM
#68
I hope its just an adjuster- but wish you would check the oil pressure with a simple guage~
and the compression --especially if it still makes noise after you are done.
and the compression --especially if it still makes noise after you are done.
07-18-2008, 06:00 PM
#69
What I think Kris is referring to on speed-- is that a car driven very gently at very low revs MAY not experience an audible level of problems on 87 gas.
It may not show them even with a scanner plugged in if driven that same way.
BUT
Run that thing up in vtec and near redline and it would be a different story!!
It may not show them even with a scanner plugged in if driven that same way.
BUT
Run that thing up in vtec and near redline and it would be a different story!!
07-20-2008, 11:47 AM
#70
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by 01tl4tl
I saw an ad from kragen specifically saying they had a scanner that you plug in and drive around with- then they dowmload the info and diagnose- looking for parts to sell you~
Its a $100 deposit- so its not the 30 dollar basic scanner, its the proper one we need when looking for the obscure.
I drive gently in town anyway, so I eliminated a few single store trips, go a few places on one day- and get to drive the TL like I enjoy it.
Thats my compromise on fuel cost for the month. Drive less- enjoy more
Everyone can eliminate a few trips that are short, cold engine, run to the store now-- when you are going to a place right near it tomorrow....- that will improve your mileage.
And its great for us PROcrastinators...I'm saving gas,,,
by putting off till tomorrow what I could do today!!!
Its a $100 deposit- so its not the 30 dollar basic scanner, its the proper one we need when looking for the obscure.
I drive gently in town anyway, so I eliminated a few single store trips, go a few places on one day- and get to drive the TL like I enjoy it.
Thats my compromise on fuel cost for the month. Drive less- enjoy more
Everyone can eliminate a few trips that are short, cold engine, run to the store now-- when you are going to a place right near it tomorrow....- that will improve your mileage.
And its great for us PROcrastinators...I'm saving gas,,,
by putting off till tomorrow what I could do today!!!
Thoughts? I would love to know for sure. Anyone in the bay area got a scanner?
07-20-2008, 10:54 PM
#72
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by winhansse
I saw a guy putting 87 in his MB E350 which is 3 times or more expensive our 2G tl. 
I 'm not sure what octane they require for....My 99 tl has no problem with 87.
I 'm not sure what octane they require for....My 99 tl has no problem with 87.
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